Transponder install....

Checkout_my_Six

Checkout_my_Six

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Check_my_Six
OK....so if I purchase a used box, like say a GTX330ES, off ebay....what documentation will I need (as an owner....or as an A&P/IA) to install it in my Bonanza (CAR 3)?

Yellow tag?
8130-3...?
STC from Garmin?
or...just a plain vanilla TSO?

Tom....you get extra points for answering correctly. :D
 
You need a yellow tag/8130-3 to know the unit is serviceable before installing it.
As long as your mechanic doesn't feel that what he has to do to get it into your panel becomes a major modification (having to do something structural), all you need at that point is a log book entry.
 
A yellow tag/8130 is not required. Eligibility for install is up to the installer. An 8130 is evidence of eligibility/traceability, but it's not required (though some A&Ps will insist on them, that's their prerogative). An installer can make the necessary determination based on the markings on the unit itself (part no, TSO marking, etc.). Garmin has an open STC, and you can download the STC and AML from Garmin's website. For a reasonable A&P, present the unit (with the Garmin ID tag on it showing part no, TSO, etc.), a copy of the STC and AML and you should be good to go.
 
How are part number and TSO markings going to tell you that a used unit is serviceable? It's a pig in a poke.
 
flyingron said:
How are part number and TSO markings going to tell you that a used unit is serviceable? It's a pig in a poke.
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Serviceable is up to the installer. He can make that determination in a way he deems appropriate (hook it up to a bench power supply, make sure it turns on, etc.). Transponder, of course, needs its own certification as to accuracy, but that's a different issue.
 
so....how does one "get" the approval letter or STC to install with a used box?...especially a used Garmin box?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
so....how does one "get" the approval letter or STC to install with a used box?...especially a used Garmin box?
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A lot of times you can download the docs directly from Garmin, though I don't see the GTX330 docs on their website. Call Garmin aviation tech support; I imagine they'll point you in the right direction. Garmin has "open" STC approvals, so it's not like you have to buy the permission letter.
 
bradg33 said:
A lot of times you can download the docs directly from Garmin, though I don't see the GTX330 docs on their website. Call Garmin aviation tech support; I imagine they'll point you in the right direction. Garmin has "open" STC approvals, so it's not like you have to buy the permission letter.
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interesting....I was under the impression that ADS-B "out" boxes were excluded from that?...
 
bradg33 said:
Serviceable is up to the installer. He can make that determination in a way he deems appropriate (hook it up to a bench power supply, make sure it turns on, etc.). Transponder, of course, needs its own certification as to accuracy, but that's a different issue.
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And your mechanic whose not an aviation repair station knows how to do this legally how?
 
flyingron said:
And your mechanic whose not an aviation repair station knows how to do this legally how?
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A non-repair station A&P cannot certify the transponder in accordance with 91.413. But he can determine it's "airworthy" for purposes of installation. It still needs the 91.413 check before it can be used.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
OK....so if I purchase a used box, like say a GTX330ES, off ebay....what documentation will I need (as an owner....or as an A&P/IA) to install it in my Bonanza (CAR 3)?

Yellow tag?
8130-3...?
STC from Garmin?
or...just a plain vanilla TSO?

Tom....you get extra points for answering correctly. :D
Click to expand...

An A&P/IA or authorized repair station can install it with a logbook entry. But, before you can operate it it must be tested and certified per FAR 91.413. Of course any A&P/IA or repairman that values his license is gonna make sure that it is an appropriately TSO'd item and has not been obviously tampered with.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Hmmmm....sure bout that?:eek:
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That's historically been the case. Maybe something has changed with the very new stuff? What are you hearing? Garmin's STCs aren't serialized, and I've never heard of them charging or otherwise getting in the way of transferring STCs.
 
wilkersk said:
An A&P/IA or authorized repair station can install it with a logbook entry. But, before you can operate it it must be tested and certified per FAR 91.413. Of course any A&P/IA or repairman that values his license is gonna make sure that it is an appropriately TSO'd item and has not been obviously tampered with.
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That's an interesting heresy. Where do you find the requirement that a unit like this be TSOd?

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
That's an interesting heresy. Where do you find the requirement that a unit like this be TSOd?

Jim
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Obviosly Jim, I'm misunderstanding something here. I was referring to TSO-C-74 and TSO-C-112. How is that wrong?
 
wilkersk said:
Obviosly Jim, I'm misunderstanding something here. I was referring to TSO-C-74 and TSO-C-112. How is that wrong?
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You can refer to them if you wish. HOWEVER, if you read the requirement the FAA has weasel-worded it so that the units have to **MEET** the requirements for the TSO, but do not necessarily have to **BE** TSO. There is a world of difference between the two.

The FAA, in their infinite wisdom also left a hole in the regulations that Granny Prichard could make 20 yards against the Patriots in a single carry. They gave the requirements for ADSB transponders in 112, which is fine, but they left the requirements for 74 in the rules for transponder operations. No transponder can meet both TSOs, so you meet one or the other. If you meet 112 you can't fly in areas where transponders are required. If you meet 74 you can't use the transponder for ADSB.

Now we KNOW that they meant to put a line in the reg for 74 that includes 112, but it isn't there right now. SOme eager beaver Ops Inspector is going to bust somebody for using an ADSB machine with its really great transponder where a 74 transponder is mandatory.

Jim
 
now.....dun that make the cheese more binding. o_O


I wonder if Tom is napping? ;)
Sounds like folks here think the STC for the GTX330ES isn't needed?....so a letter of authorization from Garmin is moot.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
now.....dun that make the cheese more binding. o_O


I wonder if Tom is napping? ;)
Sounds like folks here think the STC for the GTX330ES isn't needed?....so a letter of authorization from Garmin is moot.
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Is that what was said? I didn't read it that way.

I also have a GTX330 ES and it definitely has an STC. There are a few things to check to ensure compliance with the STC.

http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/190-00734-15.pdf
 
Clark1961 said:
Is that what was said? I didn't read it that way.

I also have a GTX330 ES and it definitely has an STC. There are a few things to check to ensure compliance with the STC.

http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/190-00734-15.pdf
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and how would one go about getting permission from the STC holder?.....to use it and install it? Obviously I'm not a Garmin dealer....so that ain't gonna work.
 
I'd rather just get the equipment and a field approval to install it and be done.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
and how would one go about getting permission from the STC holder?.....to use it and install it? Obviously I'm not a Garmin dealer....so that ain't gonna work.
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Maybe you should be asking Garmin? The own the STC. It might be a simple thing like downloading it.
 
E
Checkout_my_Six said:
and how would one go about getting permission from the STC holder?.....to use it and install it? Obviously I'm not a Garmin dealer....so that ain't gonna work.
Click to expand...
m
Checkout_my_Six said:
and how would one go about getting permission from the STC holder?.....to use it and install it? Obviously I'm not a Garmin dealer....so that ain't gonna work.
Click to expand...

Maybe give Dave over at the Landmark shop a shout? He's pretty helpful, or Clarence @ HgR?
 
Just because something HAS an STC doesn't mean an STC is required. For example, the Rosen sun visors come with an STC, but in most cases installing them isn't anything approaching a major modification that would require one.
 
flyingron said:
Just because something HAS an STC doesn't mean an STC is required. For example, the Rosen sun visors come with an STC, but in most cases installing them isn't anything approaching a major modification that would require one.
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well....that's what I'm trying to git to the bottom of. Tom....where are you on this? .....crickets....:confused:
 
Clark1961 said:
Maybe you should be asking Garmin? The own the STC. It might be a simple thing like downloading it.
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Nope....they only do dat for authorized dealers. :mad2:

....and I ain't gonna ask the Balt FSDO for a field approval. That's next to impossible. But, I might have some leverage with that depending on who I ask. :D
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Nope....they only do dat for authorized dealers. :mad2:

....and I ain't gonna ask the Balt FSDO for a field approval. That's next to impossible. But, I might have some leverage with that depending on who I ask. :D
Click to expand...
Well then you've answered your own question. Talk to authorized dealers.
 
If it isn't a major modification there's no field approval necessary nor to be had.
 
Wouldn't it depend on what, if anything, it is integrated with?
 
flyingron said:
If it isn't a major modification there's no field approval necessary nor to be had.
Click to expand...

If you submit one they are supposed to notify in writing why it was denied, if not major then you should get a letter stating that.
 
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