New CFI

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N312RB

Filing Flight Plan
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Feb 16, 2013
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Remington Box
Hello~

I just got done reading the thread about CFIs being totally pompus a-holes based on the fact that they have a CFI ticket. I feel totally opposite. I want to learn, I have 300 hrs. TT.

I see this as a phenomenal learning opportunity as well as cultivating the present and next generation of pilots. I do not want to go to the airlines, I love teaching people the magic of flight. I like seeing their eyes light up as something starts to "click".

What advice can all of you give me as far as what you would like to see in a "perfect/competent" CFI?
 
The most important thing to remember about the CFI ticket is that it’s all about teaching, not flying. You will be judged more on your ability to impart learning to your student than on any demonstration of your own pilot skills. The Aviation Instructor's Handbook book is rather dry, and (considering that it’s supposed to be prepared by professionals who really know about teaching) not all that easy to learn from. However, the important data are there, and you’d best learn not only to parrot them, but to understand what they mean and apply them when you teach (and if you don’t recognize these “levels of learning” you’re not ready yet). You will have to be able to read the student’s mind to find out whether he’s really learned the material or not, and if not, WHY not. Then you must be able to figure out how to get past whatever barrier to understanding exists in that student’s mind. You’ll find that there are as many successful techniques as there are students, but there may only be one of those many that works for any one particular student. Being able to hit on one that will work quickly, before the student becomes discouraged, is the toughest part of flight instructing.

How to work through this? Get with some successful teachers, not necessarily pilots. I’m talking about someone you know who’s an experienced high school teacher, one that the kids remember long after graduation as the highlight of their experience. Talk about teaching and learning with this person. You might also consider some basic education courses at the local college.

BTW, last month I celebrated the 40th anniversary of earning my CFI, and I'm still instructing.
 
Thank you sir... doubly so for the knowledge.
 
Congrats on attempting such an endeavor. And great advice from Capt Ron.

Teaching others to fly is one thing, teaching them to be sound pilots is another.
Not every student learns the same, the challenge to the CFI is learning different ways to teach the same material to different students. What works with one, may not work with another.

The joy of the CFI is when their students learn, pass a milestone, succeed and pass that next check ride. The goal of the CFI is not only to teach the basics and aerodynamics of flying skills, but to also impart decision making, and flight management skills that produces sound pilots.
 
I am in the same position as you. Just starting my CPL now. I can't wait to instruct and do my part in helping aviation thrive. I understand that being a good teacher is the min key, but I think actually being passionate and caring about your students is important to the process. During my ppl my CFi was awesome and he was supportive and cared. During my instrument he totally changed to my way or the highway. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact I was pic now and it wasn't his rules. My instrument training is why I want to be a CFi, I want to teach people how to fly instruments the right way.
 
They won't pay you enough to put up with the students beating the love of flying out of you.
 
Congrats on the ticket. Keep up your current attitude and you'll do just fine in this business. I'm a CFI (relatively low time like you) and I don't pretend I know it all. IMO, the know it all CFIs are frequently the ones who give their students bad/wrong info because they don't back up their sources.
 
Ron Levy said:
The most important thing to remember about the CFI ticket is that it’s all about teaching, not flying. You will be judged more on your ability to impart learning to your student than on any demonstration of your own pilot skills. The Aviation Instructor's Handbook book is rather dry, and (considering that it’s supposed to be prepared by professionals who really know about teaching) not all that easy to learn from. However, the important data are there, and you’d best learn not only to parrot them, but to understand what they mean and apply them when you teach (and if you don’t recognize these “levels of learning” you’re not ready yet). You will have to be able to read the student’s mind to find out whether he’s really learned the material or not, and if not, WHY not. Then you must be able to figure out how to get past whatever barrier to understanding exists in that student’s mind. You’ll find that there are as many successful techniques as there are students, but there may only be one of those many that works for any one particular student. Being able to hit on one that will work quickly, before the student becomes discouraged, is the toughest part of flight instructing.

How to work through this? Get with some successful teachers, not necessarily pilots. I’m talking about someone you know who’s an experienced high school teacher, one that the kids remember long after graduation as the highlight of their experience. Talk about teaching and learning with this person. You might also consider some basic education courses at the local college.

BTW, last month I celebrated the 40th anniversary of earning my CFI, and I'm still instructing.
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I agree. I could never getting the landing right with my first CFI. Kept bouncing around. Turns out I was trying to force the plane down. Another CFI gave me some advice, and I was much better.
 
Take every opportunity to broaden your flying experience so you see not only what is right but also what works and what mistakes to advise your students to avoid. If nothing else, it helps you provide perspective to your students as they encounter new aviation questions.
 
My tips:

Be a good steward. Instructors are the backbone of aviation. Even if this is a temporary stop to something else, be the best you can.

Guard your own currency. Just because you're logging PIC time doesn't mean you're flying. Spend time and money to stay current.

Flying should be fun. You'll be the one making sure that both you and your student are having fun.

Congratulations :rockon:
 
I am a new CFI also... Just completed my first two years in January. Teaching is the best way to learn. I have learned a great deal these past two years including taking deep breaths, rethinking a situation and explaining it again but differently :).
I think that learning to be very careful with language is one of the key aspects of starting a new student. And I don't mean not cussing... I mean something as simple as "push that button forwards"
You will enjoy teaching from what I see in your post. One bit of advice I can say from my time just lately is to make sure you give yourself time off so you don't get too tired.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
My tips:

Be a good steward. Instructors are the backbone of aviation. Even if this is a temporary stop to something else, be the best you can.

Guard your own currency. Just because you're logging PIC time doesn't mean you're flying. Spend time and money to stay current.

Flying should be fun. You'll be the one making sure that both you and your student are having fun.

Congratulations :rockon:
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I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Like he said you are a steward of the next generation of pilots, and frankly it gets old trying to undo some of the wives-tale teaching that goes on. If you don't know say, "I don't know, but I will find it for you!"

Have fun-its a whole new world now.
 
Congratulations, and welcome to the group. I got my PPL in 2008. I wish I had gotten it many years earlier; I would now be a CFI (part-time) just for they joy of seeing students' faces as they progress and experience that sense of accomplishment.
I went through several instructors in my first 17 or so hours, till I found the right one for me. And when I trained with him I also had a mentor - this mentor was a pilot working on his CFI. (We both had the same instructor and coincidentally and our checkrides were on the same day with the same DPE.)
I think one of the most important things my instructor and my mentor did was to simply have confidence in me. Whenever I hit a rough spot and had doubts, I knew they believed in me, they saw me as a future pilot rather than as a struggling student who may or may not make it.
On the other hand, my previous instructors did not have confidence in me. I did not know it at the time but looking back now I can see that their body language was sending negative messages, as if they were just putting up with me. They apparently viewed me as an idiot. In any area of interest, if a student is not getting it, that doesn't mean he is stupid; it usually means the particular technique used by the instructor doesn't work with this student and therefore a different technique should be tried. I had one instructor tell me to stop wasting my money and go pursue something else instead of flying, "You're going to be a 100-hour student. There's nothing more I can do with you." The next instructor (different school) told me, "People like you don't learn to fly." With the next one (different school) I was by this time nervous and had a lack of confidence. He kept YELLING at me in the plane to stop being nervous. "A nervous pilot is a DEAD pilot!" The next instructor (different school) never actually said anything negative but looking back I can tell that he viewed me as some a--hole who was wasting my time and money trying to be something I will never be.
Finally the "good" instructor was very postive and always gave commendation and helped me understand what was behind my nervousness and lack of confidence. He often said things like, "I know you can do this," and "You're gonna be a good pilot, a safe pilot," and so on. My mentor also showed confidence in me and commended me on each step of progress. They never viewed anything as an obstacle (such as if I was apprehensive about stalls, or did not understand something, or just could not seem to "get" a certain maneuver no matter what) but rather as opportunities for me to grow. Whatever I had the most difficulty with, or felt the most uncomfortable with (hoodwork, stalls), that's what we spent the most time on. He got me to a point where I was completely relaxed under the hood - even the DPE noticed. I never felt "forced" to do anything. I felt like he guided me and helped me to teach myself.
 
Congrats, I got mine last week as well. With 300 hours. I look forward to swapping some knowledge learned :)
 
N312RB said:
What advice can all of you give me as far as what you would like to see in a "perfect/competent" CFI?
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I'm going to get flamed for this but: Get some experience.

Fly some ferries and some freight to learn about flying in the system, running into ice, weird routings, etc. Get chased across the country by a front. Chase a front across the country. Spend time in clouds. Go missed because you have to. Scud run, dodging cells.

Get 100 different airports in your logbook. Fly floats a little bit. Fly gliders and learn whether pitch controls speed or not. Learn how "speed to fly" works. If you're a flatlander, do some mountain flying.

The system of newbies teaching newbies is locked in because for most, teaching is the only affordable way to get the hours they need on the way to a "real job." (Unfortunately that's also why pay is so low.)

For a PPL, maybe a newbie without a lot of flying experience can do a stellar job because what is taught is more basic technical skills than "real world" flying skills. But even there, lots of VFR things happen that aren't just book items. And for the instrument rating, IMHO I think real world experience is critical.

I don't mean you can't instruct now. But just realize that with 300 hours and getting all of your ratings, you haven't had time to experience the real world much. So don't just log "dual given." Get out and fly.
 
airdale said:
I'm going to get flamed for this but: Get some experience.

Fly some ferries and some freight to learn about flying in the system, running into ice, weird routings, etc. Get chased across the country by a front. Chase a front across the country. Spend time in clouds. Go missed because you have to. Scud run, dodging cells.

Get 100 different airports in your logbook. Fly floats a little bit. Fly gliders and learn whether pitch controls speed or not. Learn how "speed to fly" works. If you're a flatlander, do some mountain flying.

The system of newbies teaching newbies is locked in because for most, teaching is the only affordable way to get the hours they need on the way to a "real job." (Unfortunately that's also why pay is so low.)

For a PPL, maybe a newbie without a lot of flying experience can do a stellar job because what is taught is more basic technical skills than "real world" flying skills. But even there, lots of VFR things happen that aren't just book items. And for the instrument rating, IMHO I think real world experience is critical.

I don't mean you can't instruct now. But just realize that with 300 hours and getting all of your ratings, you haven't had time to experience the real world much. So don't just log "dual given." Get out and fly.
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I won't flame you for that. Solid advice!
 
I think the most important thing is to realize you know very little. Whenever you say something, show the student a reference. If they ask a question you can't answer, they'll respect you a lot more if you go through the channels to get the right answer and show them how to do that, rather than trying to BS them.

And yes, do whatever you can to get more real-world experience. I'm sure you've probably heard the saying "Do you have 1000 hours, or do you have the same hour 1000 times?" Try to make sure the answer is closer to the former than the latter when there's 1000 hours in your logbook.

FWIW, it took me less than 700 hours to have all of the ATP requirements except total time done, and now at a hair over 1000 hours I have over 700 XC, 250 night, 40 actual, and I've flown single and multi, nosewheel and tailwheel, turbine and piston, land and sea (and ski!), and flown 42 aircraft types in 35-ish states. Still learning.

Another tip, for when you do go out on your own to get more experience: LONG cross country flights are the best learning experiences. And by LONG I mean 500nm one-way, minimum. I don't know where you're based, but we have some excellent PoA get-togethers that make a good excuse to go somewhere! Plus, if you have to go somewhere for a family event or something, go GA (giving yourself lots of extra time to prevent get-there-itis of course).

The fact that you came here to ask the question indicates that you're on the path to doing very well. Good luck!
 
3+ years into this and on to charter flying, I had a ton of fun teaching but whoever said they don't pay you enough and students will beat the love of flying out of you is right. I cringe when I have a student now, I do have over 1000 hrs dual given however.
 
Teach someone to be a pilot, not just get a license. Don't just rely on the ACS. Find new ways to challenge them and have them get new experiences. Don't go in just looking to be an hour builder,there are already plenty of them around. Make them accountable as much as you are accountable. You can teach all you want, but you can't spoon feed the knowledge. It has to be up to them. And if you don't gel with a student and you clash, walk away. Don't try and be the guy that will teach someone that isn't receptive to you. And most importantly, communicate with them. About everything.
 
N312RB said:
3+ years into this and on to charter flying, I had a ton of fun teaching but whoever said they don't pay you enough and students will beat the love of flying out of you is right. I cringe when I have a student now, I do have over 1000 hrs dual given however.
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What is wrong with students? why would they beat the love of flying out of you?
 
TommyG said:
Teach someone to be a pilot, not just get a license. Don't just rely on the ACS. Find new ways to challenge them and have them get new experiences. Don't go in just looking to be an hour builder,there are already plenty of them around. Make them accountable as much as you are accountable. You can teach all you want, but you can't spoon feed the knowledge. It has to be up to them. And if you don't gel with a student and you clash, walk away. Don't try and be the guy that will teach someone that isn't receptive to you. And most importantly, communicate with them. About everything.
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My CFII is threatening to have me do a zero zero takeoff and landing as part of my IFR training. Apparently, the DEP did it to him on his CFII check ride. His justification was running out of gas while IFR or and engine failure could happen. That sounds like an interesting challenge. Obviously, he would be in the right seat making sure nothing goes wrong and it would be done on a long clear runway.

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drotto said:
My CFII is threatening to have me do a zero zero takeoff and landing as part of my IFR training. Apparently, the DEP did it to him on his CFII check ride. His justification was running out of gas while IFR or and engine failure could happen. That sounds like an interesting challenge. Obviously, he would be in the right seat making sure nothing goes wrong and it would be done on a long clear runway.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Don't fall for this. The DE who required it was going against FAA guidance and would have his/her designation pulled if the folks in OKC heard about it. There is no such requirement in the ACS (or the old PTS).....not even for the ATP.

Consider a multi-thousand hour pilot taking off in an airliner without any kind of artificial vision. Maybe his or her op specs will permit a takeoff with only 600 feet of visibility...maybe. Needless to say, they will experience this condition in the simulator dozens of times. Now put yourself on the same runway in a GA airplane with no chance to learn ahead of time. Make sense to take off zero-zero?

Bob
 
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drotto said:
My CFII is threatening to have me do a zero zero takeoff and landing as part of my IFR training. Apparently, the DEP did it to him on his CFII check ride. His justification was running out of gas while IFR or and engine failure could happen. That sounds like an interesting challenge. Obviously, he would be in the right seat making sure nothing goes wrong and it would be done on a long clear runway.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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I have done zero zero take off with students. I usually do it one time. More to show them how foolish it is to every try it. i have control of the rudders and aeliron if any x wind. Then they start rotation at speed and climb out. Have never done landing with a student zero zero. Might have to try that.

But it is not in ACS, so not required.
 
I've been a CFI for a few decades & have filled a few logbooks so here my advice. Remember what you paid for it.

1. Really prep for each lesson. Review how the last flight went & build upon that. That student is paying a lot of money to learn. Give them their moneys worth.
2. Don't be too chatty. Let the student think for hells sakes. Communicate when needed but not constant.
3. Don't be too quick to grab the controls. Let them make a few mistakes. They really teach themselves to fly. CFI's just keep them from killing themselves in the process.
4. Everyone learns differently and at a different rate. Be flexible & willing to change your style or approach to suit the personality of the student.
5. Really make sure they have the basic principles of flight before you move on to more complex tasks. Stabilized decending turns & climbing turns are great at teaching pitch/airspeed control.
6. Relax & have fun! You'll learn a lot.

Congratulations!

PS I just got my first Mac & don't know why the font changed! LOL
 
Above all...and foundationally...academics. You have just scratched the surface of your quest for knowledge. Continue to study to make yourself an expert in every area.

For example. I recently got real interested in the formation of vortices and how they are created with respect to lift. I watched many youtubes and studied everything I could get my hands on. I consider that I am now reasonably expert on the subject.

And that's just one subject. Pick something, anything and start building your expertise on the subject. Lift vectors, the how and why of slipping and skidding turns and how and WHY that's related to centrifugal force(that's actually more involved than you might think, and I didn't realize this until I started studying.).

I tell all pilots and controllers I teach, this...you don't really become good at flying or controlling until you teach someone else how to do it. And that requires that you maintain your encyclopedic brain with continuing education.

As to the flying end. Again, first have a continuing increasing expert knowledge of how to fly the airplane and how to teach the student.

In my opinion, after doing this for almost 40 years, is that 90% of doing this well is knowledge expertise.

And that can be perfected in the comfort of your easy chair at home, and it's free.

Study, study, study.

tex
 
TommyG said:
I have done zero zero take off with students. I usually do it one time. More to show them how foolish it is to every try it. i have control of the rudders and aeliron if any x wind. Then they start rotation at speed and climb out. Have never done landing with a student zero zero. Might have to try that.
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You control the rudder? Where's the benefit in that?

I also usually do it one time, more to show how precise some of the instruments are if they use them correctly. But they do the whole takeoff, with me only there to make sure we don't run off the side of the runway (I usually don't have to touch the controls at all).
 
Just explain what you're doing as you're doing it...if you make an error, point it out as such and just try to be a good coach. Oh yeah, don't yell at anyone. Like when one of my students wound-up in a 45 degree bank on a missed approach in IMC, I asked..."Where are you going," righted the plane and said "OK, you've got it from here." The students know that they made a mistake and learn from it. It was a good learning experience in getting distracted from the instrument scan during a high workload.
 
labbadabba said:
I'm thinking many here have not read the thread in its entirety prior to commenting...
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You could probably post this in 90% of the threads on the entire internet(not just PoA) and be correct every time.


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