Fighter Pilot Shortage

I wouldn't say that BVR is no problem; there's no guarantee that you can stay BVR just because you start there. Long long story about all this - the current technology isn't there. The guys who do the job know that to be true, the guys who work in the tech field and don't understand the whole picture of what would need to be done say it's already here and we are dinosaurs. I've made several posts on this before, don't feel like re-typing. It will be a LONG time before we have unmanned fighters. The last fighter pilot hasn't been born yet.
 
Air to ground, sure. Flying circles in CAP for hours in legacy fighters, not so much. Merge- not likely.
 
I wouldn't say that BVR is no problem; there's no guarantee that you can stay BVR just because you start there. Long long story about all this - the current technology isn't there. The guys who do the job know that to be true, the guys who work in the tech field and don't understand the whole picture of what would need to be done say it's already here and we are dinosaurs. I've made several posts on this before, don't feel like re-typing. It will be a LONG time before we have unmanned fighters. The last fighter pilot hasn't been born yet.

Reposted because this is 100% true
 
Pretty sure ill age out soon anyway.
...

I got in just under the wire before the age cut off, flew 15 of my 20yrs on duty.
I was chatting with some current B-1B crews last week and realized it had been almost 20yrs since my last B-1 flight.

Now that made me feel old.
 
A family member is a military pilot - says flying is the most fun when he pays for it; Uncle Sam has sucked the joy out of it. . .he's calling it a day.
 
I'd say military flying - at least tactical jets/fighters - is a lot of hard work intermixed with a few fleeting moments of pure fun. It is mostly a job to me, though every now and then you come back from a flight and think "man that was awesome". That isn't to say that it isn't a rewarding job, but the reality is much different than just hopping into a jet and taking it for a joyride. On rare occasion, it sort of is, but most of the time, it is mentally and physically challenging, and involves many hours dedicated to planning/briefing/debriefing a 1.3 hour flight. Combat is a little different, but even more so, is anything but stress free enjoyment of flight. If you just want to go slip the surly bonds, take it all in, and enjoy the moment, most of the time, flying fighters probably isn't for you. The last airplane I flew in the service that was just pure fun was the T-34, and that was several airframes and many years ago now.
 
I wouldn't say that BVR is no problem; there's no guarantee that you can stay BVR just because you start there. Long long story about all this - the current technology isn't there. The guys who do the job know that to be true, the guys who work in the tech field and don't understand the whole picture of what would need to be done say it's already here and we are dinosaurs. I've made several posts on this before, don't feel like re-typing. It will be a LONG time before we have unmanned fighters. The last fighter pilot hasn't been born yet.
You are still loved....my Bonanza friend. :D
 
I'd say military flying - at least tactical jets/fighters - is a lot of hard work intermixed with a few fleeting moments of pure fun. It is mostly a job to me, though every now and then you come back from a flight and think "man that was awesome". That isn't to say that it isn't a rewarding job, but the reality is much different than just hopping into a jet and taking it for a joyride. On rare occasion, it sort of is, but most of the time, it is mentally and physically challenging, and involves many hours dedicated to planning/briefing/debriefing a 1.3 hour flight. Combat is a little different, but even more so, is anything but stress free enjoyment of flight. If you just want to go slip the surly bonds, take it all in, and enjoy the moment, most of the time, flying fighters probably isn't for you. The last airplane I flew in the service that was just pure fun was the T-34, and that was several airframes and many years ago now.

If this was supposed to be a turn off, it isn't working.
 
A family member is a military pilot - says flying is the most fun when he pays for it; Uncle Sam has sucked the joy out of it. . .he's calling it a day.

I think anytime you're getting paid to fly, the military or the company sucks most of the joy out of it.

I'd say the military is worse at adding additional BS to your flying though. As a civilian I have a very streamlined planning process with almost no additional duties outside of flying. In the military, we would plan for hours, sometimes days for a flight but also had our required non flying officer duties on top of it. It gets old but you just have to accept it's a job that requires extensive planning inside the cockpit and just as many obligations outside the cockpit. Still, I somehow managed over 3,800 hrs in 12 years. Probably not going to see those numbers in today's military drawdown.
 
He's not considering flying for pay as a civilian, either. A to B in a pressurized sewer pipe, straight and level . . .shaky carriers, grotesquely warped FAA oversight. Just doesn't appeal to him.
 
If this was supposed to be a turn off, it isn't working.

Nope, wasn't meant to be. I am lucky to get to do this, don't get me wrong. More of a buyer beware/managing expectations sort of post for the guys out there who have aspirations to do this for a living. I think the most succinct way of saying what I'm trying to say, is that most everything I thought would be cool about the job before I joined was either wrong or just fantasy, and everything that is actually really cool wasn't even on my radar beforehand, at least for the most part. It's a rewarding job, just in different ways than I had anticipated.
 
I think anytime you're getting paid to fly, the military or the company sucks most of the joy out of it.

I'd say the military is worse at adding additional BS to your flying though. As a civilian I have a very streamlined planning process with almost no additional duties outside of flying. In the military, we would plan for hours, sometimes days for a flight but also had our required non flying officer duties on top of it. It gets old but you just have to accept it's a job that requires extensive planning inside the cockpit and just as many obligations outside the cockpit. Still, I somehow managed over 3,800 hrs in 12 years. Probably not going to see those numbers in today's military drawdown.

Yup, and the reason we're hemorrhaging folks. The reality is that retention is largely driven by airline hiring cycles, precisely because the military is unwilling to manage/tackle the QOL drivers people like yourself and AOA have described on here. Just recently the CSAF was going to the rags talking about addressing lowering the 1500 hour for civilians, with the presumption that it would boost the hiring back up and theoretically stifle the demand for military pilots at the mainline employers. Take aside for a second the fact such dynamic wouldn't fundamentally change the desirability of separating military pilots into the airlines, the fact the CSAF is taking enough time to actively lobby against the civilian employability of its subordinates instead of actually tackling the morale and QOL issues that keep getting drawn in crayola for him and senior leadership, is exactly how you end up in a situation where an F-18 job becomes too drudgerous to tolerate, especially when the very description of your job, ends up actually being your tertiary duty in practice. This isn't about money.

Caveat emptor is right. What civilians reading this thread need to take away from these anecdotes is that even if you think it's cool enough not to pass up, you won't be actually doing enough of it to make it worth your while. That's why people are opting for the boring right seat of a POS stretch guppy and watching paint dry behind an FMS away from your family, than "fly Hornets". I don't know how more clearly that can be drawn for the peanut gallery on here.

The way I manage the guano is that I went Reserves from day one, so I've had a lot more control over my personal life and assignments than a regAF guy. But it came with a paycut, a significant one at that especially in my junior company grade years. Wasn't pretty, but at least I forewent the ballwash nonner make-work gratuitous, borderline punitive, "deployments" that litter regAF life. I'm also a trainer pilot, so I no longer have all the extra deployment ancillary requirements of grey jets, and the job is by definition a lot more purist oriented. All handflying, all aerobatic, all low ASD, sortie count intensive. And being reserves, non-deployed billet. I have to manage the guano as a full-timer, but I'm home every night. If I can fix the geo-basing issue (the true opportunity cost of my job, and the AF knows it; the latter betting I can't/won't hold on to my orders to retirement due to the imposition of having to live in sh-t ass Mexico for 13 years thus ruining my young family's socioeconomic future and miss my aging parents in their last decade of active life), then I'm very much likely to choose the military route full time over the airlines. I still love my job, when they let me do it.
 
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no worries.....all y'all can work from home soon....flying your fighters remotely. :lol:
 
Uncle Sam has sucked the joy out of it. . .he's calling it a day.

Sounds just like the airlines too. I'm just now beginning to enjoy going out to the local airport and being around GA again.
 
Sounds just like the airlines too. I'm just now beginning to enjoy going out to the local airport and being around GA again.

I understand the economic limitations households have these days, but my professional involvement in flying has not deterred me from concurrently being involved in recreational aviation. This was an important lifestyle requirement for me, and I've made life choices in order to support that stance.

My mother didn't bake me for 9 months so I could be some harpy's f---g pension plan in working age, while I yield no life enjoyment to show for my daily toil. In that regard, picking a particular type of spouse was just as important a "lifestyle choice" in supporting my avocation as my actual professional choices were. It took me two tries to get it right for full disclosure, but that's water under the bridge now.

If this mil thing goes to hell, I'll still have GA to fall back on. I wouldn't have it any other way. I count my blessings in having been able to enter military aviation, but I would have found my way to my own airplane even if I had ended up a civil servant or a dentist.
 
A family member is a military pilot - says flying is the most fun when he pays for it; Uncle Sam has sucked the joy out of it. . .he's calling it a day.

He's not considering flying for pay as a civilian, either. A to B in a pressurized sewer pipe, straight and level . . .shaky carriers, grotesquely warped FAA oversight. Just doesn't appeal to him.
I don't know what he's flying in the military or other life issues he may have, and I also realize that airline flying isn't for everybody, and I also don't know what other irons he has in the fire as far as outside employment. But... I do hope he's basing his "I'm not going to fly for the airlines" on hard facts and numbers rather than some pre-conceived notion/rumors of what airline flying is like. Is it hitting the merge at 500 kts? No. Is it landing on a 3000' dirt strip with 4 HUMVEE's in the back at night on NVGs? No. Is it refueling A-10s in a Killbox while they yo-yo to a TIC? No. Is it mostly Point A to Point B. Yes. But it provides probably the best & easiest ratio of pay/days off of any job I can think of that your average military pilot can easily transition to. The airline job is a "show up one hour prior" and "when you're done, you go home" job. None of the ancillary BS that goes along with military flying is present that probably forced him out of the military in the first place (to be sure, there is other BS that goes along with it, but at nowhere near the same level or frequency).

I know the standard sentiment on this board is we're just "glorified bus drivers" and "I wouldn't want to do that boring flying," so I'm standing by for incoming,
 
Totally agree with Sluggo! I planned on hating flying for the airlines but was very pleasantly surprised. It's easy, the pay is good and you get tons of time off - and they don't call you when you aren't at work. Compared to mil flying, it's a breeze which is exactly what I want after I'm done with the USAF. It is nothing like my pre-conceived notions; it is way better!
 
I'd re-up to fly again, but I don't think I can pull the "G"s I was capable of, back in the day.
But I could totally own a barstool in the Officer's Club.
 
I'd re-up to fly again, but I don't think I can pull the "G"s I was capable of, back in the day.
But I could totally own a barstool in the Officer's Club.

Could you still do carrier landings at the club? Will the tables hold up?
 
I like my job. By far the easiest job I've ever had and I get to go home every night. I just don't go into work with a stupid grin on my face and say "I can't wait to go flying. This is so much fun!"

I'm thankful to have an easy, stress free, rewarding job but at the end of the day, it's still a job.
 
Totally agree with Sluggo! I planned on hating flying for the airlines but was very pleasantly surprised. It's easy, the pay is good and you get tons of time off - and they don't call you when you aren't at work. Compared to mil flying, it's a breeze which is exactly what I want after I'm done with the USAF. It is nothing like my pre-conceived notions; it is way better!

Yeah, I have yet to fly with a military guy that didn't echo your sentiment. They love the airline gig. I always enjoy flying with you guys - the stories are great, and I've even been initiated into a few drinking games. Heh!
 
Could you still do carrier landings at the club? Will the tables hold up?

<disdain> I'm no swabbie. The Air Force doesn't do moving runways. </disdain>

I actually made an approach at a carrier in Pensacola Harbor. Once.
Funny thing: The closer I got to the carrier, the smaller the deck got.
We leave carriers to the Navy and the Marines. Those guys (and ladies) are all brain damaged anyway.
 
I meant carrier landings on tabletops. Put 3-4 together, lather with beer, line up and land on top of the tables w/ your arms straight out like you're a plane. I was AF enlisted, maybe it was something we did when we were TDY. :D

<disdain> I'm no swabbie. The Air Force doesn't do moving runways. </disdain>

I actually made an approach at a carrier in Pensacola Harbor. Once.
Funny thing: The closer I got to the carrier, the smaller the deck got.
We leave carriers to the Navy and the Marines. Those guys (and ladies) are all brain damaged anyway.
 
I meant carrier landings on tabletops. Put 3-4 together, lather with beer, line up and land on top of the tables w/ your arms straight out like you're a plane. I was AF enlisted, maybe it was something we did when we were TDY. :D

I was an officer and a gentleman we never, ever engaged in such childish behavior.
And, if someone should actually have a picture of me missing a table landing and slamming into the (ping-pong) crash net, it was obviously photo-shopped. I wasn't there, it wasn't my fault, I was tricked into doing it.
 
Hahahaha - you guys are friggin' awesome! :)
 
I was an officer and a gentleman we never, ever engaged in such childish behavior.
And, if someone should actually have a picture of me missing a table landing and slamming into the (ping-pong) crash net, it was obviously photo-shopped. I wasn't there, it wasn't my fault, I was tricked into doing it.

Ha! I know better. My football coach at Zweibrucken was a GIB and he was rowdier than we were when we won a game. I still remember when we beat Ramstein and the entire team getting wasted at the bowling alley waiting on our bus back to Zwei and he led the way. Poor man flew an A10 into the ground and was killed, RIP, but a great guy. Plus Shep, we had enlisted guys who bar tended at O clubs, so we know what characters you gentlemen were! ;)
 
Anchor the carrier on the surface of Mars, put the guy screaming at Cougar on the backseat instead of the LSO container, and that's just my mornings at work any given day of the week. :D

"Turn the heat off!!!! O.F.F, OFF, turn it OFF!!"
 
"Turn the heat off!!!! O.F.F, OFF, turn it OFF!!"

Ah yes, students....:D

IP didn't help himself out at all with that screaming session, probably clammed up the student. Some context for the uninitiated: the environmental system in the 38 is your 1959 cadillac frost-o-matic special. All major controls and switches are on the front cockpit only. You heard that right, I cannot even shut down engines from the back without the student raising the finger lifts in the front throttles under my verbal command. Like the commercial says: It's not science fiction, it's what we do every day...:eek:

At any rate, the system collects a hell of a lot of moisture on the ground which then freezes at altitude, since in the middle of the summer there's really one setting to use, and that's thermostat all the way CCW. Might as well safety wire it to that setting for 3/4 of the year down here.

So when the water freezes in the ducting, it starts coughing at high pressure, eventually breaking the ice and literally snowing in the cockpit. it's the most hilarious thing you've ever witnessed. Snow in the cockpit, pelting your visor, and it's 105F on the ground. This quickly turns to liquid, and now all your inflight pubs are soaked. A real peach of a setup.

So the "technique-procedure" is to purge the system on the climbout when the bleed air pressure is at its highest (MIL power) in order to eject the water through the A/C vent in liquid form until nothing more comes out. At that point the system is dry and you can safely go back to a cold temperature for the rest of the sortie without re-enacting Disney on Ice on the recovery. This is accomplished by moving the thermostat all the way to the 100F stop, which basically moves the valve to all bleed-air and away from the mixer flow in the A/C turbine. That's high pressure hot air coming from the vent, which forces all that water out.

Problem is that the panel is NOT labeled ON and OFF like he was screaming at the student. You have a knob for the defog upper ducting, then you have a thermostat knob in degrees F, then you have a 3-position spring loaded switch. AUTO, MAN COLD, MAN HOT. The AUTO is top position, there the system auto moves the mixer valve to match the thermostat knob selection you have in place. Moving the thermostat to a different value, it auto moves the mixer valve to give ya the target value you selected.

If you move the switch out of AUTO, you're now in MANUAL mode. Now you need to hold the spring loaded switch left or right into MAN COLD or MAN HOT. That action of holding the switch, manually moves the mixer valve, so you can get the right flow temperature, and disregards the position of the thermostat knob. This is most often used when the auto selection doesn't work.

The problem is that if you scream at a student to turn the heat OFF, and he's in manual, he won't see anything labeled OFF so he'll improvise and turn the thermostat all the way to 40F (full CCW). Except, with the switch out of AUTO, that action won't do anything for you. It'll keep blowing that breath from Hades LOL. And to be clear, it can become a safety of flight issue real quick, to include loss of consciousness and incapacitation, maybe even burns, if you don't de-pressurize (which de-energizes the A/C system), worst case maybe even jettison the canopy in flight. A real bad day for you over something so seemingly simple.

So that's what happened here. Of course, it bears noting that the student was a Japanese national. Soo, you do the math. Also recognize, even if the student went manual, if he didn't hold down the switch in manual cold until the high pressure hot air quit (the valve moves slowwww), then he may have thought he had accomplished what was requested of him. That video was a c-fk of CRM breakdown. But funny in hindsight.

To tie it to the theme of this thread, this job can be repetitive and frustrating. Not every good pilot makes a good instructor, and we deal with many a great mil pilots roll through these halls and are completely s---ty instructors because they don't have the temperance nor the communication skills to handle a myriad of student learning gradients and learning styles, and so frustrations like this one are the end result. Then there's others who can rate a good jet, but absolutely cannot do it while teaching and demo'ing what they're doing, which can be a bit ego-bruising to type-As. The problem is exacerbated when some pilots consider the assignment second-class, something that's taking them from "hacking the mish" and putting warheads on foreheads. Like having a crappy CA on a 4-day, that can make for a loonnng assignment, having to deal and witness that kind of impetuous and pointless student berating, and the kid doesn't get better (shocking).

 
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I don't know what he's flying in the military or other life issues he may have, and I also realize that airline flying isn't for everybody, and I also don't know what other irons he has in the fire as far as outside employment. But... I do hope he's basing his "I'm not going to fly for the airlines" on hard facts and numbers rather than some pre-conceived notion/rumors of what airline flying is like. Is it hitting the merge at 500 kts? No. Is it landing on a 3000' dirt strip with 4 HUMVEE's in the back at night on NVGs? No. Is it refueling A-10s in a Killbox while they yo-yo to a TIC? No. Is it mostly Point A to Point B. Yes. But it provides probably the best & easiest ratio of pay/days off of any job I can think of that your average military pilot can easily transition to. The airline job is a "show up one hour prior" and "when you're done, you go home" job. None of the ancillary BS that goes along with military flying is present that probably forced him out of the military in the first place (to be sure, there is other BS that goes along with it, but at nowhere near the same level or frequency).

I know the standard sentiment on this board is we're just "glorified bus drivers" and "I wouldn't want to do that boring flying," so I'm standing by for incoming,
I think he's looking to be his own boss, manage his own fate. And it may be he's looking at the industry as Mil light, to a degree. And perhaps there is some measure of looking to do something diffrent, get some personal growth. He has some friends who have gone the civilian route, so I believe he has a fairly accurate idea of the workings; just that a long career of hauling pax from A to B has little appeal for him. It's definitly a no-brainer for him to leave the service - just too much SAS, PC nonsense, and having seen a few solid leaders go under the bus.
 
so much amazing here....:D

lemme put this right chair....


The tech today is amazing but it's application will be limited. Sikorsky's H-60 has a fully autonomous version but they've said it'll only be used for resupply and not PAX carrying.

The resupply has great potential when you look at manned aircraft restrictions. I can see in the future, supplies being flown to a mountainous COP/FOB, all while 0/0 weather.
 
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