Gps/waas

Pegasus

Pegasus

Pre-Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
65
Location
Waunakee, WI
Display Name
Display name:
Pegasus
GPS approachs with VNAV are so cool. The controllers like them too, they just let you go on your way, hardly any work on their part. Gotta love how they bring you down just like on an ILS.
 
I guess I gotta wait until I have, or have access to, a plane with a GPS with vertical guidance. Everyone I know who has flown 'em, loves it.
 
Absolutely!

The LPV or LNAV+ ability to provide glideslope is great. It is also nice how the sensitivity remains the same throughout the approach, rather than getting more sensitive like an ILS.

Big fan.
 
I spoke with my A&P this weekend and he expects to have the waas upgrade installed late this week. As I'm an IFR student, I'm looking forward to another "tool" at my disposal.
 
gps/waas is a pretty easy 'tool' to demonstrate on a checkride. much easier than an NDB approach, for example.
 
If you have a 430 or 530 that hasn't been scheduled for the upgrade, this is the last week to schedule it before the upgrade price (exclusive of labor) doubles from $1500 to $3000! Needs to be on the list by 8/31/07.
 
Jeff S KDTW said:
Absolutely!

The LPV or LNAV+ ability to provide glideslope is great. It is also nice how the sensitivity remains the same throughout the approach, rather than getting more sensitive like an ILS.

Big fan.
Click to expand...
Jeff
I don't believe that's true for the LPV approaches. I'm on vacation and will check the references when I get home.

LPV approaches have continually increasing sensitivity as you approach DA in order to give you ILS-like accuracy. You can see the full scale deflection at the FAF (glide slope intercept) of 0.3 nm going down to 0.1 at the DA.

I'll post a reference in the next few days.

Joe
 
gprellwitz said:
If you have a 430 or 530 that hasn't been scheduled for the upgrade, this is the last week to schedule it before the upgrade price (exclusive of labor) doubles from $1500 to $3000! Needs to be on the list by 8/31/07.
Click to expand...

We just scheduled, we'll be having it done in November. Oh, the joys of aircraft ownership. :rolleyes:
 
Our Baron is supposed to be finished today or tomorrow. They were buttoning it up for a test flight when I last talked to 'em. Looking forward to trying it all out.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Our Baron is supposed to be finished today or tomorrow. They were buttoning it up for a test flight when I last talked to 'em. Looking forward to trying it all out.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

One quick test I would do before I accept another 430/530 WAAS upgrade is to set the GPS to the satellite page. Then transmit on each radio on 121.5 (unfortunately that's the worst frequency). Just click and hold the mike for a couple of seconds, hopefully it won't bother anyone.

On the 430W upgrade we did doing that on the 430 kills the satellite reception immediately. Interference seems to occur when we transmit anywhere from 120.0 to 122.0. Other frequencies don't affect it. Second radio doesn't affect satellite reception at all.

Joe
 
Areeda said:
Dave,

One quick test I would do before I accept another 430/530 WAAS upgrade is to set the GPS to the satellite page. Then transmit on each radio on 121.5 (unfortunately that's the worst frequency). Just click and hold the mike for a couple of seconds, hopefully it won't bother anyone.

On the 430W upgrade we did doing that on the 430 kills the satellite reception immediately. Interference seems to occur when we transmit anywhere from 120.0 to 122.0. Other frequencies don't affect it. Second radio doesn't affect satellite reception at all.

Joe
Click to expand...

My partnership is trying to decide if we want to upgrade our 430 ( a majority of the partners are VFR and don't really want it). I called our avionics shop and was told that the WAAS receiver is much more sensitive than the original receiver, and that it was fairly common to have to move comm antennas in order to certify a 430w install.

They also told me that if we can't make up our mind this week that they'll get us a Garmin RMA number at no cost to us, and we'll have until May 2008 to decide if we want it.

Getting pilots to agree on anything is like herding cats.
 
Areeda said:
Dave,

One quick test I would do before I accept another 430/530 WAAS upgrade is to set the GPS to the satellite page. Then transmit on each radio on 121.5 (unfortunately that's the worst frequency). Just click and hold the mike for a couple of seconds, hopefully it won't bother anyone.

On the 430W upgrade we did doing that on the 430 kills the satellite reception immediately. Interference seems to occur when we transmit anywhere from 120.0 to 122.0. Other frequencies don't affect it. Second radio doesn't affect satellite reception at all.

Joe
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip Joe. The shop we use has done excellent work in the past; they're a class 5 repair facility, but it's worth checking.

Best,

Dave
 
Is WAAS available in a lot of places now? I thought it was slowly being rolled out. But since the ole KLN90B cannot be upgrades for WAAS I had not been looking at it very closely.
 
Our WAAS/LPV approach (KRUE-Russellville, AR) will be initially published with the Aug. 30 pubs. Non of the biz jet jockies I've talked to have the equipment to fly it.
 
Areeda said:
Dave,

One quick test I would do before I accept another 430/530 WAAS upgrade is to set the GPS to the satellite page. Then transmit on each radio on 121.5 (unfortunately that's the worst frequency). Just click and hold the mike for a couple of seconds, hopefully it won't bother anyone.

On the 430W upgrade we did doing that on the 430 kills the satellite reception immediately. Interference seems to occur when we transmit anywhere from 120.0 to 122.0. Other frequencies don't affect it. Second radio doesn't affect satellite reception at all.

Joe
Click to expand...

The frequencies to be tested are:
121.150
121.175
121.200
121.225
121.250
131.200
131.225
131.250
131.275
131.300
131.325
131.350

This is only PART of the pre IFR testing requirements, as per the Garmin 430W Installation Manual.
 
smigaldi said:
Is WAAS available in a lot of places now? I thought it was slowly being rolled out. But since the ole KLN90B cannot be upgrades for WAAS I had not been looking at it very closely.
Click to expand...

I think the FAA said there were almost 700 WAAS approaches as of last spring and they're adding about 300 per year. Unfortunately most of the first couple hundred were on runways that already had ILS, but the number of airports with LPV and no ILS is growing.
 
With the upgrade all LNAV approachs give you vertical guidance on the Garmin. Minimums don't change but it still makes the approach easier and probably safer as you stay higher longer on the final segment.
 
gprellwitz said:
If you have a 430 or 530 that hasn't been scheduled for the upgrade, this is the last week to schedule it before the upgrade price (exclusive of labor) doubles from $1500 to $3000! Needs to be on the list by 8/31/07.
Click to expand...

I heard they extended it.
 
We've had the upgrade on our Baron for a few weeks now and have made several approaches to check things out.

My partner made a funny yesterday! We were going to an airport to shoot GPS WAAS approaches to the same runway as an ILS. He said we couldn't go because the ILS was down. We laughed quite a bit yesterday after doing four approaches and it clicked with him that the GPS is completely separate.

Best,

Dave
 
They can extend the pricing all they want. But until they do the software upgrade, it's still half a loaf with some annoying bugs. And that's the truth.
 
gprellwitz said:
That would be great, but based on the comments from the Garmin reps less than a week before the expiration, I'm skeptical. Do you have an official source for the extension?
Click to expand...

I heard this from my aviation shop, but I haven't seen anything in writing. Call a few shops and see what they say! They may even be able to fax you a copy of the letter to dealers.
 
Lance F said:
They can extend the pricing all they want. But until they do the software upgrade, it's still half a loaf with some annoying bugs. And that's the truth.
Click to expand...

Lance,

What bugs have you found? The only one I've run across is the winds aloft calculator not working.

Also, once in a while the whole screen flashes white, really annoying at night but I think it might have something to do with something else in our electrical system. In fact, I think it might be fixed... We'll see.
 
If you reset a field on the NAV1 page, it goes back to the default when you turn the unit off. (For those of us that like to use the VNAV info, this is a pain.) There may be other bugs too, but the main thing is not being able to be the sole source of navigation.
 
Lance F said:
If you reset a field on the NAV1 page, it goes back to the default when you turn the unit off. (For those of us that like to use the VNAV info, this is a pain.) There may be other bugs too, but the main thing is not being able to be the sole source of navigation.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Have they said anything about when there'll be a software update?
 
Ahh that explains why I couldn't get the winds aloft to calculate this weekend....

I got another WAAS question. Anyone know what the cause of this would be?

Hayward WI (Sawyer County) [HYR]: September NOTAM #20 WAAS LNAV / VNAV and LPV minimum unreliable effective from September 17th, 2007 at 11:42 PM CDT (0709180442) - September 17th, 2007 at 11:57 PM CDT (0709180457)
Click to expand...
Saw this notam on my trip up to 3CU, and it was the first time I've ever seen one like this. Also why only for 15 minutes?

Pete
 
Lance F said:
If you reset a field on the NAV1 page, it goes back to the default when you turn the unit off. (For those of us that like to use the VNAV info, this is a pain.) There may be other bugs too, but the main thing is not being able to be the sole source of navigation.
Click to expand...

Lance: can you expand on this a little?

Also, is there any idea "out there" as to when a maintenance release to fix some of these bugs will be released?
 
SCCutler said:
Lance: can you expand on this a little?

Also, is there any idea "out there" as to when a maintenance release to fix some of these bugs will be released?
Click to expand...
Sure, the NAV1 page has 6 fields in the lower half of the screen. They're supposed to be user selectable, (MENU - "Change Fields" - etc.) You can set any of them for whatever you like, e.g. I put VNAV in the place where the default is TRK. However, when you turn the unit off and then back on, the defaults are back in all the fields. It isn't supposed to do that.

They've been promising the new software for some time. The WAAS upgrade itself was delivered YEARS after the initial promise, so who knows.
 
The autozoom function does not work correctly on my 430. Sort of works but the range might just be 15 miles when you are only a mile out.

I too am wondering when the software upgrade will be released.
 
Those of us with 480's have been flying WAAS approaches for over two years now. The certification flight for my new panel was an LNAV/VNAV.
 
Those of us with 480's have been flying WAAS approaches for over two years now. The certification flight for my new panel was an WAAS approach.
 
So you've been doing twice as many of them? LOL!

Did anyone confirm that the offer's been extended? Not having a plane, much less a 430/530, I haven't called myself.
 
vontresc said:
Ahh that explains why I couldn't get the winds aloft to calculate this weekend....

I got another WAAS question. Anyone know what the cause of this would be?


Saw this notam on my trip up to 3CU, and it was the first time I've ever seen one like this. Also why only for 15 minutes?

Pete
Click to expand...

It's a geometry thing. During that period you will not have either the required minimum number of satellites, or you may not have reliable access to the WAAS signal. HOWEVER, your IFR-approved WAAS GPS will do all the necessary work - if it gives you vertical guidance, you can use it, so this NOTAM is not an outage announcement.
 
Latest from avionicswest.com update:

Software Version 3.00 For The 400/500W
Software Version 3.00 is scheduled to be released for the 400W/500W series radios at the end of October and will fix a number of issues and add several valuable new features.
As you may know, up to this point, the features in the XM “Aviator Lite” have been all that could be accommodated by the 400/500W series. The release of Software 3.00 will change that since it will support the three items below which are in the “Aviator” package.
400500W.jpg

Version 3.00 contains a number of new capabilities and features, including:
· IFR operational limitation removed with full compliance with TSO-146a.
· TAWS limitation removed with reduced TAWS nuisance alerts.
· Added XM weather products:
· Lightning
· Cell Movement
· Winds Aloft improvements
· Added capability to display vertical GPS approach guidance on Honeywell EFS 40/50.
· Added ability to remotely store and tune up to fifteen radio channels. (A great added feature)
· Improved Auto-Zoom functionality.
· Depict holding patterns correctly over 429 interface when holding pattern has non-uniform turns.
· Fixed the problem when the operator replaced long arrival (or departure) sequences with short arrival (or departure) sequences which would result in invalid track information.
· Change the text of the "Hold at...?" prompt to reduce potential for confusion with course reversals.
· WAAS units start up in last used mode vs starting in GPS mode.
· Improved VNAV functionality.
· Corrected compatibility issue with WX500 Stormscope® identified in Installation Bulletin 0711.
· Corrected issues relating to the E6B true wind calculator, scheduling feature, retention of user settings over a power cycle (430W), and various other items.
The $1,500 WAAS upgrade offer has ended and the new price is $3,000. If you didn't upgrade your unit to WAAS, now you'll pay some serious bucks!
For more information, contact your local Garmin Aviation Dealer.
 
That's what we want. Let's see what's delivered and when. Garmin's record is not great in that regard.
 
I see that airways are still missing... Looks like the rest will be nicely fixed up tho...
 
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