Any way around this?

coloradobluesky

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coloradobluesky
Maintenance shop won't let me in to look at my airplane. It's because of their insurance. They don't have coverage for non-employees if they get hurt in there.

Is there any way around this? Its not that I pester. The mechanic says he doesnt like the policy either. He'd like to be able to hve me in there to show me the airplane when it's taken apart. The owner of the shop would like to find a way but they can't.
 
strange....all 4 shops I've used in the past (FTG and APA) have never had a problem with me inside the shop. In fact the 3 at FTG (one now out of business) were delighted when they could show me exactly what was going on. PM me the shop in question, if you don't object.

Is this the first time you've used the shop or do you have an ongoing relationship? If not the first time used, is this a new policy by the shop?
 
99% of the time that "insurance" excuse is just a way to keep you out of their hair.
I tolerate it a a car shop, but would find a new independant mechanic and do the work in my own hangar.
Unfortunately, not all of us have the talent nor the time to do an owner-assisted anything on the airplane. I'm doing good to do an oil change and check/change (as permitted) all the fluids, batteries and lights.
 
This is the first time I used the shop. It is Vector Air an KEIK. My other mechanic was really great. Retired mechanic and instructor from the local mechanics school who did all the maintenance in his hangar, 4 hangars up from me. But he moved to Florida!

It's not to get me out of their hair. I'm not that much in their hair and don't want to be. It's their insurance and they are enforcing it. Their workman's comp covers their employees and their liability doesn't cover airplane owners. Something like that. I can see their dilemma.

It's a tradition for an owner to go in and see their airplane when it's taken apart. And this is the first time I've been told I can't do that. It sucks!

I can find another mechanic at a remote airport. But that is a pain. Always trying to find a ride home and ride to get it. Hard enough to get a plane worked on without that too. I don't have the agility, desire or ability to work on my own airplane. Even if I did I'd need an IA for the annual sign off. I CAN do the hardest part--get the parts! (some truth in that). I don't insist on doing that though I did with the previous guy. Really need a mechanic that will do the work, but let me in to look at the plane when it's apart for 15 minutes of his PAID time. Not too much to ask IMO.
 
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I've seen that sign in pretty much every shop I've been in (automotive or aviation), and I've never seen it enforced. I've always been able to walk right in and see.

If they make too big of a stink about it, then find another mechanic.
 
Very strange, Vector has a very good rep in the area. It may be something happened, another owner got snotty or worse, etc and they decided it was easier to invoke the Insurance Clause (not to be confused with the Santa Clause)
 
Maybe they could make a policy where someone could go see their airplane if ACCOMPANIED by an employee.
 
Present a waiver of liability, beg to be let in for 5 mins.
Totally bogus paper, everyone knows - but might get you what you want.
 
Clearly these guys have never seen a large MRO where customers are assigned their own visitors security badge and get thier own office by request and are free to go virtually anywhere on campus including the shop floor.
 
Clearly these guys have never seen a large MRO where customers are assigned their own visitors security badge and get thier own office by request and are free to go virtually anywhere on campus including the shop floor.
Understand most of the shops out here are very small, perhaps 4-5 employees at most. You can't compare a large MRO with these shops. Not even apples and orangles, more like kitty cats and elephants...Doing the paperwork and background that the insurance company would require (if possible!) is both expensive and onerous. I seriouly doubt the small shops would do this.
 
And probably because they did something dumb.

And then threatened to sue, following which the insurance company lowered the boom and said the no public access item, which has been in the policy for ages, had to be enforced or their insurance risked being invalidated. Welcome to America.

Someone needs to come up with a remote video/audio feed system that the mechanic can use to transmit pictures real time to a monitor in the front office where the owners can follow along and talk to the mechanic. That might be the only solution that satisfies the liability coverage provider.
 
I was told someone got hurt.
That makes a little sense. I have used Vector in the past and have been in their shop.

The way around it is to have your own insurance certificate. All the liability guys want is protection from medical and associated claims. I've been in many shops of all sizes as a customer representative. I was covered by my employer so no one had a liability squawk even though we were doing things like proof testing.
 
So, if they tell the owner something is wrong and it's going to cost big bucks the owner just has to take their word and can't see what is wrong, that's ********, they should have some release from responsibility or something the owner can signto not hold the shop responsible. Of course it doesn't relieve the shop of negligence.
 
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I'm not saying they are wrong, but if it were me, I'd try to find a different shop. I think its pretty important to have one's nose into the work occasionally.
 
Will not ever allow a shop to work on my junk (no jokes Mark) without having the option to watch. As others have said, insurance signs are posted in almost all shops but have never heard of it being enforced unless the customer is a know PIA
 
Will not ever allow a shop to work on my junk (no jokes Mark) without having the option to watch. As others have said, insurance signs are posted in almost all shops but have never heard of it being enforced unless the customer is a know PIA
This. I've never seen a shop (even big jet maintenance shops) that wouldn't at least allow the owner inside with an escort.

If may very well be that insurance truly prohibits it, but every shop owner I know is at least willing to take the risk by finding a safe time/escort.
 
Very strange, Vector has a very good rep in the area. It may be something happened, another owner got snotty or worse, etc and they decided it was easier to invoke the Insurance Clause (not to be confused with the Santa Clause)
I had an oil change done awhile back and they let me help. Must be new management or ?
 
Someone needs to come up with a remote video/audio feed system that the mechanic can use to transmit pictures real time to a monitor in the front office where the owners can follow along and talk to the mechanic. That might be the only solution that satisfies the liability coverage provider.

FaceTime or Skype, mechanic's phone to customer's?
 
Maintenance shop won't let me in to look at my airplane. It's because of their insurance. They don't have coverage for non-employees if they get hurt in there.

Is there any way around this? Its not that I pester. The mechanic says he doesnt like the policy either. He'd like to be able to hve me in there to show me the airplane when it's taken apart. The owner of the shop would like to find a way but they can't.
change insurance companies.
 
Hate to say this, but thanks for the warning about Vector.

I wouldn't give any money to anyplace that wouldn't let me see what's going on, and they have plenty of competition in the Front Range area.
 
Hate to say this, but thanks for the warning about Vector.

I wouldn't give any money to anyplace that wouldn't let me see what's going on, and they have plenty of competition in the Front Range area.
If they were under consideration for work before this, I would suggest just "call and ask" ... Not to question the original story, but I still hear good things about Vector. I don't recall hearing any personnel changes, but wife of a friend works near them and might know something. I'll ask.
 
the insurance excuse is pure bs.i worked in the industry for 30 years with a ton of aircraft related insurance on the books never an exclusion.
 
If they were under consideration for work before this, I would suggest just "call and ask" ... Not to question the original story, but I still hear good things about Vector. I don't recall hearing any personnel changes, but wife of a friend works near them and might know something. I'll ask.

True. Not under consideration right now. Heh.
 
"wife of the friend" says she was told "you CAN go back into the shop if with an escort" there ... so, perhaps crossed wires, mixed messages or something in the original situation...
 
I complained so much that they are now telling me I can go back there if I have an escort. Thats will work for me.

Just keep situational awareness and don't do something like taking a static wick to the eyeball. I've seen that safety video.
 
I complained so much that they are now telling me I can go back there if I have an escort. Thats will work for me.
yep - to the point that she knew EXACTLY who I was talking about, and the back story ... :)
 
Sometimes repairs go smoothly. But sometimes they don't. What can happen is the owner has a list. Replace parts A, B, C and D. So the mechanic orders the parts and starts putting them in. Replaces A and B. When he gets to C, hmm, wrong part. Now come the problems. There isn't any agreed procedure for changing the work order. Mechanic might call the plane owner, but it goes into the recording. Mechanic might call the parts supplier or the aircraft manufacturer to get the reason for the wrong part. But the mechanic might just decide to take the old part out, take it apart and put it back together and make do with it. Or maybe he goes ahead and puts the non-fitting part in, making it work as best he can. After he does this owner gets the message and calls the parts suppliers and finds the right part. But the mechanic has all that buttoned up and "done" now, so its going to have to be undone and redone or left substandard, and need to be fixed later on.

The point it, problems occur when somebody CHANGES the agreed upon and worked out procedures. Be very cautious about changing things without thinking it through and getting everyone onboard.

This is why, in large organizations that know what they are doing, there are agreed upon procedures for changing the work order. Certain people have to be contacted, the new work figured out, the problem part needs to be understood, and decisions need to be made and responsible people need to be contacted. And it has to be done in writing. All this costs time and money. And if its not done, it can cause more problems later on.

Things like this are WHY airplane owners want to be included in process. It makes the process better. The owner has a responsibility not to be disruptive. And no one wants to work on and airplane while the owner looks over his shoulder. Line of communication is essential. In some ways things were better when we wore pagers. People are missing some of their important phone calls.
 
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