Cold War....

Acrodustertoo

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Buford T. Justice
It seems that they(conspiracy?) have been trying to get the USA vs Russia thing going for a while now. Do you think that this could spur some more advances in aviation like we had during the first cold war? Things were booming for half of a century due to this supposed stand off between us and them with all the military build up and the "one-ups-manship". Could this produce some of the "good times" we had in the past? Could we see some more brilliant aircraft?

disclaimer: keep this thread about aviation please. We saw some great aircraft because of this and I want to keep this thread that way.
 
The Soviet philosophy has always been to copy us, make something that is close to but not quite as good, but have more of them. But the whole threat model from both sides has been greatly changed since the breakup of the Soviet Union. I don't think they view the US or the West in general as a significant threat (and vice versa) so I don't think they are going to continue a path of 'one upping' us, as in the US, in military hardware. That broke their back economically in the 80's. I think they are more focused on closer and similar equipped enemies plus Middle East support in which they have a great stake.

I watched a documentary on the development of the SU 27 (Russian F15) and the designers felt that, while they could build a comparable if not superior airframe, it was the electronics that would be the largest hurdle. They couldn't miniaturize avionics and control systems like we could. I'm sure that's changing now.
 
I am in love with their airframes. The Su-27, 30, 33, 34, 35, 37 are fantastic aircraft.
Ben Rich always talked about the electronics vs aircraft conundrum and as it turns out he was right. The F-35 is a prime example of that. Just because you have the capability to see and attempt to shoot down other aircraft from 40 miles doesn't mean that the airframe is better. Once the non visual threat is nullified what happens now? Personally I think the F-15 is the greatest airframe ever built for that purpose, its record is proof of that not to mention all the other records it held on top of that.
 
I don't think they can afford another Cold War. The Russian economy is about a sixth of the US one, similar in size to Mexico.
 
Like said above, Russia can barely keep their stuff flying as it is. Even with the budget issues we have, we still way out class them in aircraft and training.

Also, Trump and Putin seem to be on pretty good relations right now. Don't see the threat from the other side to force us to increase our output. Trumps vague plans to get contractors to play ball and stop screwing the tax payer over with over priced hardware will never happen either.
 
I am in love with their airframes. The Su-27, 30, 33, 34, 35, 37 are fantastic aircraft.
Ben Rich always talked about the electronics vs aircraft conundrum and as it turns out he was right. The F-35 is a prime example of that. Just because you have the capability to see and attempt to shoot down other aircraft from 40 miles doesn't mean that the airframe is better. Once the non visual threat is nullified what happens now? Personally I think the F-15 is the greatest airframe ever built for that purpose, its record is proof of that not to mention all the other records it held on top of that.
The SU-37 is insane. Puts the F-22 to shame imo
 
My thinking on all of this is that the Rooskies have some incredible machines that are on par with ours as far as flying goes but the knot in our rope is that theirs cost a fraction of the price and can be made and made at a much faster rate. They would win in attrition in my opinion.
 
Something tells me they don't have anything which would touch a F22 in an engagement.
In a non-visual range battle then yes but I think we are talking about a good old fashion dog fight.
The other thing to consider is maintenance - when we have an F-22 down with battle damage, how long and how much is it going to cost vs a Sukhoi? We have all heard the stories about the Stealth, where they had to seal it up every time the pilot got in it to keep it stealth, wonder how much is the same these days?
 
It's not just an aircraft vs aircraft comparison on paper. It's the training and infrastructure around that aircraft. If the aircraft has all the bells and whistles but it is only 50 % FMC, it doesn't do you much good. If you've got a great aircraft but you've got a pilot not proficient in it, that's no good.

I've got an old Hook magazine from the 80's with an article on community airframe flight hours. An F-18 pilot made a comment on lack of proficiency in his unit. He'd rather go into combat with 40 hrs a month in an A-4 vs 10 hrs a month in a Hornet. These guys were worried that they weren't getting a goal of 25 hrs per month in their airframe. It's basically the same problem we have today. This chart is Navy but all the branches have had similar down turns in flying hours. The real "war" is trying to maintain wartime proficiency in a post war environment. Simulation...ugh!:(

http://www.public.navy.mil/NAVSAFECEN/Documents/statistics/StatsPrevYrs/AviationTables.pdf
 
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Public knowledge that we've deployed assets to Poland and other countries closer to the Russian border. Rotating different military fighters at in and out of these forward bases. When I was in W. Germany during the early 70s we were based there, England, Spain, Italy and France til they kicked us out. We had fighters on alert with tactical nukes uploaded and ready to launch. Hope it doesn't get to that point but I wouldn't be surprised if they already have. Drones will be a factor but fighters, bombers, and cruise missiles too if it gets to that point. Our technology is much greater than theirs. Of course today the Chinese grab one of our underwater drones right in front of the Navy mother ship. Seems Russia and China are pushing our buttons with our current President.
 
Is not China the bigger issue?

They may turn out to be. Philippines getting comfortable with China and blowing us off. China making forward operating bases out of reefs in the S. China Sea and deploying fighters.
 
I don't think think they are trying to get to the boiling point hut I feel like there is a part of their side and ours wants to have a bad guy to point fingers at. Kind of hard to point out the ones we have now and I think the rooskies really want to have us back as a fake enemy to help push their economy and gain their identity back as a supe power. Putin has said many times that the u.s is the only real mega power left. Putin knows they cannot match our technology but if we were standing in the blue corner and them back in the red corner then their technology would catch up Mitch faster. It should be interesting to see just how far they are going to take it. I really don't like what is going on right now with all the allegations being thrown around. Not a good thing to pass on to your predecessor.
 
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That broke their back economically in the 80's.

Broke ours too. We're still paying for it all. We just have better credit. Aren't you proud of yourself? All that money you send every year and it barely pays the interest bill on the loans. You should give yourself a high five, you awesome American worker you, living the dream bought in the 80s.

Economies win wars, our is much better than theirs.

Well, tactically if you don't mind dying, you usually can win if you have more numbers, too. But that's a tough way to do things. Takes ultra fanaticism. Poor countries have done it. Yay cheap AKs.

I really don't like what is going on right now with all the allegations being thrown around. Not a good thing to pass on to your predecessor.

Proof positive none of the politicians in DC really give a rat's ass about the overall health of the country... just whatever expensive and stupid political game they've come up with this week.

...

So, shall we spin up the MX squadrons again? Mmmmm. Tasty MAD missiles. Hundreds of megatons of yield each.

Tens of billions in juicy contracts. Spin 'em up and shut them down a year later via another treaty.

Great way to make some contractors some serious coin.

Yay statism. Rah rah. Spend a few more trillion on whatever stupid war they come up with next.
 
Broke ours too. We're still paying for it all. We just have better credit. Aren't you proud of yourself? All that money you send every year and it barely pays the interest bill on the loans. You should give yourself a high five, you awesome American worker you, living the dream bought in the 80s.



Well, tactically if you don't mind dying, you usually can win if you have more numbers, too. But that's a tough way to do things. Takes ultra fanaticism. Poor countries have done it. Yay cheap AKs.



Proof positive none of the politicians in DC really give a rat's ass about the overall health of the country... just whatever expensive and stupid political game they've come up with this week.

...

So, shall we spin up the MX squadrons again? Mmmmm. Tasty MAD missiles. Hundreds of megatons of yield each.

Tens of billions in juicy contracts. Spin 'em up and shut them down a year later via another treaty.

Great way to make some contractors some serious coin.

Yay statism. Rah rah. Spend a few more trillion on whatever stupid war they come up with next.


Back in the old days maybe, but numbers don't do much against air, ever leave a bag of with a lot of gummy bears out in the sun, same thing.
 
In a non-visual range battle then yes but I think we are talking about a good old fashion dog fight.
The other thing to consider is maintenance - when we have an F-22 down with battle damage, how long and how much is it going to cost vs a Sukhoi? We have all heard the stories about the Stealth, where they had to seal it up every time the pilot got in it to keep it stealth, wonder how much is the same these days?

Our future air to air battles will be bvr in my opinion. Not suggesting the military stops training the art of dog fighting because who really knows? I do question the operational readiness rate during an actual conflict with both the 22 and 35.
 
Cold war.

What do you guys know about cold war?

The electricity went off this morning around 6am for about 3 hours. No heat.

And yes, I was foolish enough to pack up the emergency heat pending a move in the very near future.....:lol::lol::lol:
 
Cold war.

What do you guys know about cold war?

The electricity went off this morning around 6am for about 3 hours. No heat.

And yes, I was foolish enough to pack up the emergency heat pending a move in the very near future.....:lol::lol::lol:
I would suggest cuddling up with your spouse for warmth. Maybe try some horizontal aerobics, you know, just like that commie Jane Fonda !
 
Our future air to air battles will be bvr in my opinion. Not suggesting the military stops training the art of dog fighting because who really knows? I do question the operational readiness rate during an actual conflict with both the 22 and 35.
How long can we sustain that though? When we are fitting million dollar missiles at ground targets worth their weight in scrap?

Off topic but my thoughts on the Syria events, I am pretty sure they are dragging out these relics from wwduce and Korea, setting them on top of a hill out in the open just to get us to shoot a couple million dollars at it.
 
I don't think think they are trying to get to the boiling point hut I feel like there is a part of their side and ours wants to have a bad guy to point fingers at. Kind of hard to point out the ones we have now and I think the rooskies really want to have us back as a fake enemy to help push their economy and gain their identity back as a supe power. Putin has said many times that the u.s is the only real mega power left. Putin knows they cannot match our technology but if we were standing in the blue corner and them back in the red corner then their technology would catch up Mitch faster. It should be interesting to see just how far they are going to take it. I really don't like what is going on right now with all the allegations being thrown around.
They could be just allegations, or there could be merit to them. What evidence do you have that there isn't?
Not a good thing to pass on to your predecessor.
Ummm..... what?? :confused2:
 
disclaimer: keep this thread about aviation please. We saw some great aircraft because of this and I want to keep this thread that way.
Yes, keep it that way, but we all know threads like this are catnip for those who want to spin it in another direction.
 
Yes, keep it that way, but we all know threads like this are catnip for those who want to spin it in another direction.
The nice part about this is hopefully it would center around communism vs capitalism.
 
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