A
Anon
Guest
I am pretty sure you can
RussR
En-Route
As a CFI, I'm trying to wrap my head around WHY the CFI would add hours to the student's logbook. I just can't figure it out. This is honestly something I've never considered even remotely, because where's the benefit?
If I falsely add hours to the student's logbook:
- The student may not be completely prepared for the checkride, in which case I would need to provide him more training anyway (negating the purpose of the additional falsified hours)
- Or I sign him off "early" and he fails the checkride, which no CFI wants
- The student now knows that I am comfortable falsifying official records and therefore has a reason to question my integrity in all areas
- And to top it off, I may end up flying less with that student, meaning less income
I guess the only "pro" for this action is some vague idea of "being nice", but no student would think poorly of a CFI for NOT falsifying their logbook, would they?
I don't get it. Like others have asked, is this a real question?
(I would be interested in hearing about similar situations from others, where someone else forged entries for you in your logbook.)
If I falsely add hours to the student's logbook:
- The student may not be completely prepared for the checkride, in which case I would need to provide him more training anyway (negating the purpose of the additional falsified hours)
- Or I sign him off "early" and he fails the checkride, which no CFI wants
- The student now knows that I am comfortable falsifying official records and therefore has a reason to question my integrity in all areas
- And to top it off, I may end up flying less with that student, meaning less income
I guess the only "pro" for this action is some vague idea of "being nice", but no student would think poorly of a CFI for NOT falsifying their logbook, would they?
I don't get it. Like others have asked, is this a real question?
(I would be interested in hearing about similar situations from others, where someone else forged entries for you in your logbook.)
azure
Final Approach
No experience with outright falsification, but my last BFR, the first time around the CFI gave me no ground time either done or logged. I had forgotten that this was mandatory by the regs, but when I realized it, I complained and asked that we do this and log it, and I would certainly pay for his time. He didn't take any more money from me, but sat down and basically chatted with me about flying for 30-45 minutes and logged it as an hour of ground time.
I later learned that this CFI is a good teacher and is well-regarded as a CFI, but has a bit of an inferiority complex because he never went to college and feels intimidated by people with advanced degrees. I had noticed that he never tried to teach me anything in the plane but limited his comments to positive feedback, as if he was afraid to criticize me about anything. To echo what Palmpilot said, CFIs are people and like anyone else, can have their own motivations for doing things that may make no sense to most of us.
I later learned that this CFI is a good teacher and is well-regarded as a CFI, but has a bit of an inferiority complex because he never went to college and feels intimidated by people with advanced degrees. I had noticed that he never tried to teach me anything in the plane but limited his comments to positive feedback, as if he was afraid to criticize me about anything. To echo what Palmpilot said, CFIs are people and like anyone else, can have their own motivations for doing things that may make no sense to most of us.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's the best way to learn! Called getting ya some 'perience. I took off on a VFR flight from NJ to Alabama (800-900nm, 2 fuel stops) within a week or so of passing my Private check ride. I wasn't too good on VOR nav so I used mostly pilotage. Only got lost 2 times, but I made it! And then back a week or so later.
Last edited:
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
Yup. When I had 250 hours (not as low time as the PPL in question) I made an 8,000 mile trip from Nevada to Cuba and back. I would expect anyone with my hours to be able to do this. Isn't that part of what earning a PPL qualifies you for?
labbadabba
Pattern Altitude
To me, I think the bigger issue was that it was a ferry flight with a plane that no one in the club had flown or checked out before.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Then you make your decision whether to fly it or not. Preflight it thoroughly, and if it checks out ok fly around the pattern a couple times. YOU make the decision, not the club.
labbadabba
Pattern Altitude
I agree it's the PIC's call. But if I'm the club president I wouldn't be too comfortable sending out a low-time pilot to ferry back a new club asset knowing the guy is low-time and probably doesn't have the experience to know what to look for. Flying the plane, yes. I'm sure the dude was plenty qualified (except for the fact that he took off into marginal weather and had to put the plane down in a field), but earning your PPL doesn't mandate you learn about the finer points of acquiring a new 60-year old aircraft.
That kind of thing, in my eyes, is something a pilot picks up after a few years of hanging around the airport and many hours flying and examining airplanes.
Maybe the dude was an A&P or his dad was a pilot and thus he was around planes since he was 4, I dunno the full story but if it as described I wouldn't be comfortable having a low-time pilot for that mission.
Cajun_Flyer
Pattern Altitude
The person accidentally first posted this under his/her screenname and then redid it as anon. I saw who the original poster was and it's not a fake.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Nobody has pointed out that the second the "experienced" ferry pilot brings a plane to a club, after an hour checkout, the "inexperienced" pilot can go do the exact same mistake, outbound or inbound, on a XC of their choosing, two days after it arrives. One day to check out in it, and departing the next morning.
There's no real risk change between the two. New pilots can and unfortunately will, make mistakes.
Best option: Send BOTH pilots out to get it. Experienced pilot to in theory bring it home in one piece, inexperienced pilot because why not? Let 'em see how a long XC goes with the experienced guy or gal.
Unless the thing is on a ferry permit and really is a "ferry" legally, of course. That may have limitations on who can be on board...
But a club repositioning flight? Great opportunity to send someone inexperienced with someone experienced on a trip.
There's no real risk change between the two. New pilots can and unfortunately will, make mistakes.
Best option: Send BOTH pilots out to get it. Experienced pilot to in theory bring it home in one piece, inexperienced pilot because why not? Let 'em see how a long XC goes with the experienced guy or gal.
Unless the thing is on a ferry permit and really is a "ferry" legally, of course. That may have limitations on who can be on board...
But a club repositioning flight? Great opportunity to send someone inexperienced with someone experienced on a trip.
sourdough44
En-Route
Looks like the 172 in question has flown it's last flight. 