How to gain approval.

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
I have a customer who owns a Piper Apache, (0-320-A engines). He would like to upgrade his ignition to dual electronic. and fuel injection, by removing both mags and use SDS complete ignition and fuel injection systems.

Now here is the question, how wold you go about gaining approval thru the field approval system using the 337 as pre-approval.

What would you say in the cover letter?
What would you say in block #8 as to what is to be done?
What would be your first step in the process?

Got any ideas?
 
Take the airplane to Mexico, do the mods, get it approved down there, and bring back it in on our reciprocal agreement. It is a hell of a lot simpler to simply pay mordida than try to navigate it through our honked-up system.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Take the airplane to Mexico, do the mods, get it approved down there, and bring back it in on our reciprocal agreement. It is a hell of a lot simpler to simply pay mordida than try to navigate it through our honked-up system.

Jim
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For the level of mods he wants to do to that engine, I'd have to agree with something like this, or just sell it and buy a experimental.
 
weirdjim said:
Take the airplane to Mexico, do the mods, get it approved down there, and bring back it in on our reciprocal agreement. It is a hell of a lot simpler to simply pay mordida than try to navigate it through our honked-up system.

Jim
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You would be required to de-register it here, then register it there, Do the paper work in spanish, get approval there, then re-import it back here and try to gain a airworthiness certificate with the mods. don't think that can be done, unless an STC to do it is valid here. And I don't know of one.
 
Get it into the experimental category. Then you can make changes. One of my former bosses installed a TSIO 520 in a Navion using that tactic.
 
Norman said:
Get it into the experimental category. Then you can make changes. One of my former bosses installed a TSIO 520 in a Navion using that tactic.
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that may be required, but it will not qualify for amiture built, and the airworthiness certificate won't allow PAX during that period. Most probably be a restricted for testing for a 1 time STC. That's a load of paper.
§21.191 Experimental certificates.
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:

(a) Research and development. Testing new aircraft design concepts, new aircraft equipment, new aircraft installations, new aircraft operating techniques, or new uses for aircraft.

(b) Showing compliance with regulations. Conducting flight tests and other operations to show compliance with the airworthiness regulations including flights to show compliance for issuance of type and supplemental type certificates, flights to substantiate major design changes, and flights to show compliance with the function and reliability requirements of the regulations.

normally no pax.
 
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Tom-D said:
You would be required to de-register it here, then register it there, Do the paper work in spanish, get approval there, then re-import it back here and try to gain a airworthiness certificate with the mods. don't think that can be done, unless an STC to do it is valid here. And I don't know of one.
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I thin what he means is leave it as a X registered plane and convert your cert.
 
Tom-D said:
You would be required to de-register it here, then register it there, Do the paper work in spanish, get approval there, then re-import it back here and try to gain a airworthiness certificate with the mods. don't think that can be done, unless an STC to do it is valid here. And I don't know of one.
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Depending on what was done to the plane prior to import, it may require a field approval here if there is no STC for the modification. In this case, you'd be almost back to square one trying to do it this way, although the DAR might be able to pull some strings to help get it through.

My friend's Dornier I posted about in another thread of yours was imported from Iceland, and also spent time in Sweden. The DAR had to get several field approvals done to obtain a standard airworthiness certificate for the plane, one of them being an engine conversion performed in the '70s in Sweden. It took a bit of work and creating some documentation from the TC holder saying it was ok. It got approved, but it was a bit of a struggle, despite having flown for close to 40 years in this configuration.

I have not bothered to seek any field approvals due to the reputation of the local FSDO on the subject. Can you call someone at the FSDO, tell them what you're trying to do, and see what they recommend putting on the paperwork? If they're the ones who will be signing it off, you might as well start there to see what they're going to want to see.
 
Last I knew there was no agreement with the DGAC Mexico, meaning any DGAC approval would need an FAA validation and any FAA approval would need DGAC validation, even for imports/exports.

There are countries that will accept approvals from just about anyone, so you could install an FAA, DGAC, ANAC, EASA STC with no issues. The problem is you probably could never economically export it from that country and get a standard airworthiness certificate.
 
The Navion was eventually returned to Normal category. It now shows on the registry as "Normal category" Engine is listed as TSIO 520.
Yep, the paperwork now outweighs the plane. Moral: If you don't want to do the paperwork, don't take the job.
 
Things are a lot different now. Field approval on something like this isn't what it used to be. New guidance came down in the last couple of years. Your chances of a straight "field approval" is NIL. You want to do the engineering work to develop an STC, you might be able to get it done.
 
Electro air is working on the STC for the duel electronic ignitions.
 
my guess is that the feds would want you to do and STC for that much of a mod. even though it sounds like you have a good relationship with your POI, I would bet higher ups would force and STC on that mod.

bob
 
Dual, sorry auto correct took over. So since you are perfect and I am not I will now leave the site forever. Hope you stay perfect and keep pushing others away from the site.
 
Just sign it off and take cash Tom. So long as no one crashes it or runs drugs you're good to go. :D

Or find another 337 that's done this and use their methodology for data approval. Your FSDO will likely rubber stamp something done before easier than forging new ground.
 
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