I seriously doubt it's MH370....

Why would there be a cloth (to be used as a blanket) Malaysian flag on board? Sure, there is one painted on the side, but a large cloth one? Too weird.

I am pretty sure MH370 is in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
 
As an avid flightsim, electronics and PC enthusiast (from the age of 15, I'm now 50) and builder of my own PC flight simulators for years (multi-monitor, yoke, pedals, throttles, TrackIR, homemade switch/pushbutton panel, etc), long before I ever took my first flight lesson...........THIS IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS LOAD OF CRAP I HAVE EVER HEARD!

Thankfully, I have never felt suicidal, but if I ever did, the LAST thing I'd do is "practice" a suicide route on my home simulator. And I seriously doubt that an Airline Captain of his experience level would need to do so either. I'm just a private pilot, but on my PC I've flown all kinds of routes, weather conditions, emergency procedures and other scenarios, some I'd never attempt in a real airplane! Not to mention the whacky things just for fun.

For me, the enjoyment of building and tweaking my own flight simulator is a passion! I also enjoy sharing it with friends and family during parties and family gatherings.

So, the FBI found a "similar route" on his FSX PC. Big deal! The media jumps all over that and label it.. "a practice suicide route", with zero evidence. What an insult.

Is it slightly possible that you've never done a "practice suicide" route because your mental health is good, and you are a stable individual? ;) Further, the manner in which this flight disappeared would require some advanced planning. Finally, the missing aircraft in question seems to be sufficient evidence to make a credible case for an intentional loss of life.
 
I don't specifically recall that, but that makes some sense because they were inexperienced, and they were actually trying to get someplace specific.

An experienced airline pilot who intended to commit suicide by crashing his aircraft in the middle of the ocean doesn't need to practice the route. His biggest issue would be other crew members, not finding someplace to crash. Most anyplace would work, right?

Ah, but finding s place to do it where no evidence or debris would be located takes some serious logistical planning.
 
I think people are objecting to the *assumption* that because a similar route was on his simulator, that he was practicing a murder/suicide. There's no proof of that. It would only be circumstantial evidence. Not only that, it would depend on whether or not this route was one of the most recent routes, or if it was buried in thousands of routes on his computer disks.

I don't think it takes a whole lot of logistical planning to find the southern Indian Ocean, and it definitely doesn't take any rehearsal on a sim. How many here rehearse their routes on a sim before flying them? I think the main hurdle, if suicide is the truth, would have been incapacitating the other pilot and keeping the FAs out of the cockpit once they realized something was wrong, assuming that the FAs have the code.
 
I don't think it takes a whole lot of logistical planning to find the southern Indian Ocean, and it definitely doesn't take any rehearsal on a sim. How many here rehearse their routes on a sim before flying them? I think the main hurdle, if suicide is the truth, would have been incapacitating the other pilot and keeping the FAs out of the cockpit once they realized something was wrong, assuming that the FAs have the code.

I haven't looked into that case in details almost since it happened, but as I recall it, the hard part was threading the route from the South China Sea to the middle of the Indian Ocean in such a way as to evade most radars, both civilian and military along that path. I assume that there is a correlation between radar coverage (at least civilian) and FIRs, so the idea was to fly as far as possible from the various FIRs and get as low as practical. I can imagine that doing it properly (as they evidently managed to do) requires significant planning, and quite likely simulation.
Edit: I think I read somewhere that another idea was to "split the FIRs", in the same way you "split the defense" in some team sports, to create confusion about whose responsibility that unknown primary target is. All of this would require significant planning and possible simulation.
 
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Check mine out; you will be 100% confident that I am a suicidal lunatic.

I let my kids fly my x-plane all the time. They love to crash the plane. They hardly want to even get airborne before they want to flip it over and/or aim for the ground.

I don't know why they love to crash it so much, but I probably have hundreds of self-inflicted airplane crashes "in my name".
haha, my 11 year old used to do the same thing when he was a toddler. He got such a kick out of crashing for some reason. We'd both laugh at his 'adventurous' flying and he knew he would get a brand new airplane to crash. Funny thing is, he grew bored of that and started taking it more seriously. Now, whenever he occasionally gets on it, he actually enjoys taking off and attempting to land on a runway. He no longer desires to crash the thing ;)
 
Like an ocean larger than North America?:D Don't really need to aim all the accurately.

So you're saying there's hundreds of thousands of square miles of ocean where satellite coverage doesn't exist that is easy to fly an airliner into without being found? Makes more sense that way, especially if it was planned out ahead of time.
 
So you're saying there's hundreds of thousands of square miles of ocean where satellite coverage doesn't exist that is easy to fly an airliner into without being found? Makes more sense that way, especially if it was planned out ahead of time.

I'm really just saying that it's easy to crash in the ocean, somewhere, anywhere, without detailed navigational planning, so it doesn't pass the smell test that he would have practiced the route. o_O
 
Is it slightly possible that you've never done a "practice suicide" route because your mental health is good, and you are a stable individual? ;) Further, the manner in which this flight disappeared would require some advanced planning. Finally, the missing aircraft in question seems to be sufficient evidence to make a credible case for an intentional loss of life.
Absolutely! And by ALL accounts of those who knew and worked with him (family, friends and co-workers)... so was Capt. Shah. That is why I for one, will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt until I have evidence to the contrary.
Evidence as in FDR/CVR data (not FSX data points).

To me, the following is a more plausible theory of his final actions as a living crew member, rather than the... "stealth-suicide-mass murder for no apparent reason-no explanation or suicide note" theory.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...bb2ea2e73?sv=fe82f031d0dd99b752ed7fc46ba6be2e
Did MH370 pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah try to save the plane?

"SUSPICION has again fallen on MH370 captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah amid claims the wing part found on La Reunion Island shows signs of a “controlled crash”.

Australian aviator
Neil Hansford yesterday added his voice to the chorus of claims that the pattern of damage to the right-hand flaperon was consistent with deliberate ditching.

To many, that has kamikaze connotations. But what if the alleged signs of a controlled crash were instead the result of a desperate, heroic bid by Capt Zaharie to save the plane and the 238 other souls on board?
What if the action was forced on him following a catastrophic event, be it an in flight break up, or as some continue to suggest, a hijacking attempt?
Everything we know about the 53-year-old, happily married father points to his innocence.
He was a veteran pilot who joined Malaysia Airlines in 1981, and had more than 18,000 hours of flying experience.

In a previously unpublished interview with news.com.au, Capt Zaharie’s sister, Sakinab Shah, said he would never compromise the safety of his passengers, let alone murder them en masse in a premeditated, suicidal or political act.


“I want the world to know here is a loving man who will (sic) stop at nothing to render help when it is needed,” she said.

The setting-up of his home simulator, which he did in 2011, the consequences of which has aroused much suspicion and speculation, was innocent. But then, that was his passion since young. He so enjoyed aviation. He enjoyed flying toy planes, he spent a large amounts of money to pursue his hobby. As such, equating his home simulator to roguish intentions on his part is not fair.

His presence during every family function never failed to light up the occasions,” she said. “He was always sought after by sisters, brothers, nieces and nephews alike. A man [of] integrity. A generous brother and uncle who often came bearing gifts from his overseas trips.”
 
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I'm really just saying that it's easy to crash in the ocean, somewhere, anywhere, without detailed navigational planning, so it doesn't pass the smell test that he would have practiced the route. o_O

But how likely is it it randomly crash in a location where tracking was unavailable and debris went unseen? Crashing in that area intentionally would require knowledge and a little planning. That's all that I am suggesting I regard to the similar home sim scenario.
 
But how likely is it it randomly crash in a location where tracking was unavailable and debris went unseen? Crashing in that area intentionally would require knowledge and a little planning. That's all that I am suggesting I regard to the similar home sim scenario.
Maybe we should ask Amelia, she had a flight simulator as well. I saw it at Newark Airport when I worked there in the 80's :D.
She landed at EWR a few times and also dedicated the new Administration building in 1935
upload_2016-7-30_2-33-48.pngupload_2016-7-30_2-35-25.png

wiki: "The unresolved circumstances of Earhart's disappearance, along with her fame, attracted a great body of other claims relating to her last flight, all of which have been generally dismissed for lack of verifiable evidence. Several unsupported theories have become well known in popular culture."
 

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Sad world when a person with a squeaky clean record (by all accounts) is guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion, due to the sensationalism of the world's media. It just adds insult to injury, not only for his grieving family, but the families of all of those who perished along with him. A media who's thirst for headlines is more important than respect and common decency!


MH370 Pilot’s Flight to Nowhere Proves Nothing
Clive Irving.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/29/mh370-pilot-s-flight-to-nowhere-proves-nothing.html


"Once more dubious Malaysian sources are used to damn the crew who, instead of being villains, were likely fighting to save the airplane."

"The only problem with this scenario was why? Why would a pilot with an impeccable record who, at the age of 53, had flown more than 18,000 hours on commercial jets, 8,659 of those hours on the Boeing 777, go rogue and destroy himself and 238 other mortals?

Or, if the crew were innocent but had been overpowered and the airplane taken over by hijackers or terrorists why was there no ransom request or claim by a terrorist group?"


"The problem here, once more, is that everybody in this cauldron of speculation, including me, is lacking one thing: incontrovertible evidence. With very little verifiable information to go on there is no real level of confidence that any scenario seeking to explain what overtook Flight 370 will ever be complete enough to solve the mystery—that would need to be informed by the discovery of the remains of the airplane at the bottom of the ocean."
 
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I don't think it's as dire as you say, redtail. It's just that commercial airliners don't just disappear in these modern times. Sure, be ridiculous and cite Amelia Earhart's disappearance long before the days of GPS nav and satellite surveillance. The world is indeed a big place, but even you have to admit that an airliner simply vanishing is rather unusual and a bit suspicious. No 7500 sqwak? No comms at all? Seems weird, and hard to blame this one on passengers.
 
But how likely is it it randomly crash in a location where tracking was unavailable and debris went unseen? Crashing in that area intentionally would require knowledge and a little planning. That's all that I am suggesting I regard to the similar home sim scenario.
It's 100% likely in this case because it happened. If this flight had crashed on or near land, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
I don't think it's as dire as you say, redtail. It's just that commercial airliners don't just disappear in these modern times. Sure, be ridiculous and cite Amelia Earhart's disappearance long before the days of GPS nav and satellite surveillance. The world is indeed a big place, but even you have to admit that an airliner simply vanishing is rather unusual and a bit suspicious. No 7500 sqwak? No comms at all? Seems weird, and hard to blame this one on passengers.
Oh, no doubt, it's weird as hell! There are a number of scenarios that I can imagine, from the catastrophic to the malicious. But what I take issue with, is the character assassination of a man who, based on what we KNOW, was a decent human being. Doesn't matter if it's Capt. Shah or Jesus Christ himself. It's wrong. No one deserves to be falsely accused of evil, even though they may be a prime suspect. Suspicion is alright up to a point, but in some cases, suspicion is sin.

And when the mass media (Scribes in Bible) starts slanderous accusations of "suicide routes", with no clear evidence or the slightest indication that he had any such mentality, it's not only disrespectful to the families of all on board, it's flat out WRONG! Especially since the man is not here to defend himself, nor do we have any concrete data to indict him. As a fellow aviator, flightsim hobbyist and human being, I'm appalled.

As I've said several times, it's one thing to suspect, it's another to slander. Since when is it ok to 'fabricate' guilt after a thorough investigation of a person's background turns up nothing?
 
Interesting thoughts but more than likely a suicidal maniac was involved and it was most likely the captain.
 
Interesting thoughts but more than likely a suicidal maniac was involved and it was most likely the captain.
All speculation my friend. You're just as entitled to an opinion as I am but at the end of the day, none of our opinions mean jack without credible evidence. So until we have such evidence, I'll base my opinion of the captain's character on 'known' data, not 'most likely', and not FSX data:rolleyes:

Too many unknowns in this mystery for me to pin this on the man. Or the FO, or any other crew member for that matter. Now if it is proven to be so, then so be it.

Edit: ha, after I hit the post button, it dawned on me why I feel so strongly about this, but that's a topic for another thread, lol.
 
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Shah was a political dissident in a country ruled by a dictator. The opposition leader that he supprted was convicted, in a kangaroo court, shortly before the flight. Those are things often mentioned as reasons for suspecting him of a suicide.

In any case, somebody reprogrammed the FMS while the flight was enroute. And how many aboard could have done that, besides Shah?

Here's a story, written by a 777 pilot, arguing that Shah did it:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/
 
Oh, no doubt, it's weird as hell! There are a number of scenarios that I can imagine, from the catastrophic to the malicious. But what I take issue with, is the character assassination of a man who, based on what we KNOW, was a decent human being. Doesn't matter if it's Capt. Shah or Jesus Christ himself. It's wrong. No one deserves to be falsely accused of evil, even though they may be a prime suspect. Suspicion is alright up to a point, but in some cases, suspicion is sin.

And when the mass media (Scribes in Bible) starts slanderous accusations of "suicide routes", with no clear evidence or the slightest indication that he had any such mentality, it's not only disrespectful to the families of all on board, it's flat out WRONG! Especially since the man is not here to defend himself, nor do we have any concrete data to indict him. As a fellow aviator, flightsim hobbyist and human being, I'm appalled.

As I've said several times, it's one thing to suspect, it's another to slander. Since when is it ok to 'fabricate' guilt after a thorough investigation of a person's background turns up nothing?

Here is someone in serious delusional denial.
 
Shah was a political dissident in a country ruled by a dictator. The opposition leader that he supprted was convicted, in a kangaroo court, shortly before the flight. Those are things often mentioned as reasons for suspecting him of a suicide.

In any case, somebody reprogrammed the FMS while the flight was enroute. And how many aboard could have done that, besides Shah?

Here's a story, written by a 777 pilot, arguing that Shah did it:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/
Link is to a subscription only site.

The political reason doesn't seem as if it would cause someone to do what he is being accused of by some people.
 
Link is to a subscription only site.

Excerpts from article, from Jan 2016, are below.

Key points: (1) a pilot had to reprogram the flight in the FMS. (2) the lack of a debris field suggests a controlled ditching, so a pilot must have been in control at the end. (3) Khan had personal issues and is therefore the most likely suspect.

=================================

The B777 is state of the art; probably the safest aircraft flying today. I know — I have many thousands of hours as captain on B777. How then could it disappear?

So, who changed the destination in MH370’s FMS?

Soon after the revelation that MH370 flew for more than seven hours to the southern Indian Ocean, I realised only an accomplished pilot could have managed this feat.

Simon Hardy, a former British Airways B777 captain, wrote a book that almost conclusively identifies Zaharie as responsible for the hijack of MH370 and its flight to the southern Indian Ocean, which likely ended as a controlled ditching as per Boeing flight manual procedures.

The aircraft suddenly turned westward over the South China Sea and flew a precise track — revealed by analysis of Malaysian military radar — across northern Malaysia. It avoided Thai military radar, then turned, after circling Zaharie’s home island of Penang, to the northwest up the Straits of Malacca and around the northern tip of Sumatra, avoiding Indonesian military radar, and eventually headed south. This shows precise control of the aircraft.

Why no debris? In 2004, a Flash Airlines B737 crashed after taking off at night from Sharm el-Sheikh because of pilot disorientation. It came in from 2500 feet at about 500km/h. Masses of debris floated for a long time. A much bigger B777 hitting the sea from 37,000ft at 1200km/h would produce a huge amount of debris that would float for months. Conclusion: it did not crash and was flying under control.

Analysis of Malaysian military radar revealed the aircraft had climbed to 45,000ft as it tracked across northern Malaysia. The only reason for doing this would be to incapacitate passengers and cabin crew by hypoxia. Only pilots’ masks have selectable pressure breathing capacity.

Hardy’s book is quite detailed about the rogue pilot theory and draws attention to the fact the aircraft circled Penang as if in a farewell to Zaharie’s home island. Former Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim has confirmed Zaharie was a card-carrying member of his party (and an very distant relative) but has dismissed suggestions he may have diverted the plane as a political act. Hours before the flight vanished, Anwar, de facto leader of the People’s Justice Party, was sentenced to five years in jail after a court overturned his 2012 acquittal on a sodomy charge. Zaharie reportedly attended the hearing.

Several months after the MH370 disappearance I was told by a government source that the FBI had recovered from Zaharie’s home computer deleted information showing flight plan waypoints. Here, I assumed, was the smoking gun. To fly to the southern Indian Ocean, which has no airway leading from north of Sumatra to the south, the pilot would need to define flight plan waypoints via latitude and longitude for insertion in the FMC.

When nothing about this emerged from ATSB I rang my source. He confirmed what he had told me and left me with the impression that the FBI were of the opinion that Zaharie was responsible for the crash.

The flaperon found on a Reunion Island beach was definitely from MH370. The flaperon sits immediately behind the engines on a B777. The engines sit well below the fuselage and in a controlled ditching would contact the water first. The engines are held on by shear bolts and are expected to rip off (taking the flaperon with them) on contact with water.
When the flaperon was analysed by Boeing, the manufacturer said, along with US aviation safety consultant John Cox, that it had been broken off in a lowered position, consistent with the theory MH70 had made a controlled ditching into the sea.
The only logical conclusion I can draw is that Zaharie carefully planned and executed this very clever hijack scenario to end up in perhaps the world’s most unsurveyed deep-sea mountainous terrain, 6.5km deep in a cold, dark hell that would not be found — an area not that far north of Antarctica.

Byron Bailey, a veteran commercial pilot with more than 45 years’ experience and 26,000 flying hours, is a former RAAF fighter pilot and trainer and was a senior captain with Emirates for 15 years, during which he flew the same model Boeing 777 passenger jet as Malaysia Airlines MH370.
 
Sorry, that was not a request to post the article, since it could be a copyright violation if you quoted too much.

In any case, this is just speculation, which is really all we have right now.
 
Sorry, that was not a request to post the article, since it could be a copyright violation if you quoted too much.

In any case, this is just speculation, which is really all we have right now.

I was careful to quote significantly less than the full article, for exactly that reason. But feel free to remove my post above anyway, if you prefer.
 
I was careful to quote significantly less than the full article, for exactly that reason. But feel free to remove my post above anyway, if you prefer.
I don't know how much is too much as I am not part of the POA legal team. :redface:
 
If you were going to murder 238 people and commit suicide as a political statement, why would you go to extraordinary lengths to make sure no one ever figured it out?
 
If you were going to murder 238 people and commit suicide as a political statement, why would you go to extraordinary lengths to make sure no one ever figured it out?
Exactly.

And if you notice the current headlines in reference to the condition of the flaperon, they're saying it indicates that the plane was "flown" into the ocean, i.e. a ditching. Sounds to me like someone was trying to "save" lives in the final moments (possibly after regaining consciousness).
http://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/expert-claims-mh370-possibly-flown-water

Nope, I'm not ready to throw the captain under the bus yet.
 
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Here is someone in serious delusional denial.
So you think I'm delusional? Fine.

To be in denial of something, I'd have to have factual evidence of it to deny.
I haven't ruled out any possibility, I've only given my opinion. That doesn't make me delusional or in denial.

By the way, there are many innocent people in prison for crimes they have been falsely convicted of. Do you deny that?

delusional
Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness:
 
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If you were going to murder 238 people and commit suicide as a political statement, why would you go to extraordinary lengths to make sure no one ever figured it out?

Good question.

My guess is that "statement" isn't what this was about.

Maybe it was "spite." And spite sometimes comes without a statement, when someone lashes out.

Kind of like the waiter who spits in your food, when he's had a bad day and you've once again said something cruel. Except that, tragically, the media available to the captain wasn't a plate of food; it was an airliner. And the intended recipient of the spite was not a restaurant customer, but a dictator.

His life centered in good part on his passion for political opposition. He was upset about his political leader being convicted in a kangaroo court of charges that are the most humiliating in a Muslim country. He was seemingly helpless to do anything about it ... except ... that he could lash out in spite.

Just my guess.
 
The waiter conceals his crime so he can keep his job. But he lives on with the secret satisfaction of knowing he got you. What is the purpose of concealing the spite or statement on this case? If it's a suicide mission, the captain would have nothing to lose, and won't be around for any secret enjoyment of his crime. I could understand a dramatic statement, or even indifference to discovery. But such lengths of concealment? It makes no sense.
 
I don't buy that the captain did anything malicious. If he wanted to make a political statement or wanted to be a martyr of some sort, he would have let that be known. Narcissists do that kind of crap and they love the attention, even if they know it's going to be post-mortem. If he was suicidal, he would have rented a small plane and smashed into the ocean on his own. Or shot himself in the head. Suicidal does not equal homicidal. The guy who crashed the Germanwings... he was nuts on a whole different level, one that had been marked by doctors. Nothing indicates that the same can be said of this man.
 
I haven't gotten in on a good conspiracy theory in a long time.

I started poking around today and saw two different theories on the flaperon damage. One says the lack of leading edge damage and presence of trailing edge damage is due to being extended for ditching and drag from water tore off the traing edge. The other says it indicates a high speed breakup, where flutter tore off the trailing edge.
 
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