Cirrus sr22 crash airport

frfly172

frfly172

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Oct 22, 2008
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mass fla
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ron keating
just in a cirrus sr22 landed in the parking lot ,at the KHYA airport,report of minor injuries.
 
1) I am glad the injuries were reported as minor.
2) That news photo of the aircraft in the parking lot in front of the sign declaring "Terminal Entrance" is going to be the basis of many Internet & Facebook meme posters.
 
'Minor injuries', phew! It's actually not that bad of a parking job!
 
I'm curious, not looking to start an airplane race war but is the SR22 a more difficult aircraft to handle than say the typical Cherokee or Skyhawk? Without looking at the numbers it just feels like we see a disproportionate number of takeoff/landing error type crashes with them.

I ask this as someone who has never flown one, closest I've come is riding in the back seat of an Sr20.
 
I would say that if flown properly, no more difficult to land than any other. In fact, easier in some respect, especially in crosswinds.

I moved to mine from a Grumman Tiger, and found them similar. Free-castering nose gear with little shock absorption that do not like fast, flat landings.

Early on, there was an unwarranted fear of tail strikes, and fast landings were promoted. By the time I went for my CSIP training, it was back to landing as slowly as possible.

Many, if not most landing mishaps in Cirrus' (and most other planes) have excess speed on touchdown as the first link in the chain. Too soon to speculate if that was a factor here.
 
Hmm, based on the registration this was probably his home airport. Glad everyone is ok.
 
Dang that thing took up 3-4 parking spots! Pretty damn close to the front door too. Greedy right there. :rolleyes:
 
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cowman said:
I'm curious, not looking to start an airplane race war but is the SR22 a more difficult aircraft to handle than say the typical Cherokee or Skyhawk? Without looking at the numbers it just feels like we see a disproportionate number of takeoff/landing error type crashes with them.

I ask this as someone who has never flown one, closest I've come is riding in the back seat of an Sr20.
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I expect the normal approach and touchdown speeds are faster for the SR22 than a Cessna 172 or low hp Cherokee. There's more energy and everything is happening a bit faster, and the airplane is cleaner so probably doesn't decelerate as easily as the aluminium trainers if one is too-high-too-fast on approach.

The airplane in this instance is a G2 model; the wing was redesigned with the introduction of the G3, but I don't know how much difference, if any, that makes in normal approach and touchdown speeds.
 
cowman said:
I'm curious, not looking to start an airplane race war but is the SR22 a more difficult aircraft to handle than say the typical Cherokee or Skyhawk? Without looking at the numbers it just feels like we see a disproportionate number of takeoff/landing error type crashes with them.

I ask this as someone who has never flown one, closest I've come is riding in the back seat of an Sr20.
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It's an easy plane to fly. From what I've noticed, a lot of Cirrus pilots come in way too fast. 80kts is a normal speed and 78kts for short field.
 
jordane93 said:
It's an easy plane to fly. From what I've noticed, a lot of Cirrus pilots come in way too fast. 80kts is a normal speed and 78kts for short field.
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I think that's the key. Cessna 172s and Cherokees are quite tolerant of moderately sloppy flying; that's why they make great trainers and time builders. 10 knots too fast over the fence in a Bonanza, SR22, my Aztec or any other higher performance airplane makes a big difference.
 
GRG55 said:
I think that's the key. Cessna 172s and Cherokees are quite tolerant of moderately sloppy flying; that's why they make great trainers and time builders. 10 knots too fast over the fence in a Bonanza, SR22, my Aztec or any other higher performance airplane makes a big difference.
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Exactly. I've had no problem slowing a 22 down, especially ones with the big 3 bladed composite prop. It's like a giant speed brake. I had a guy who was flying his 20 90 knots over the fence and couldn't figure out why his landings were so crappy. I told him to slow it down and his next landing was a greaser. There's no secret.
 
GRG55 said:
I expect the normal approach and touchdown speeds are faster for the SR22 than a Cessna 172 or low hp Cherokee. There's more energy and everything is happening a bit faster, and the airplane is cleaner so probably doesn't decelerate as easily as the aluminium trainers if one is too-high-too-fast on approach.

The airplane in this instance is a G2 model; the wing was redesigned with the introduction of the G3, but I don't know how much difference, if any, that makes in normal approach and touchdown speeds.
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It's a SR22, not a F104, as far as I've noticed, it's just a more modern single engine trike trainer, designed from the ground up for hobby pilots. Don't fly the numbers, you're not going to have a good time, no matter what you're flying.

Not exactly a fire breathing dragon.
 
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Maybe they should have pulled the chute,why not? It's a long way from the runways to the parking lot,must have been carrying a lot of energy.
 
Better training would be a much better idea. I'm convinced many ppl pilots today were not given enough basic training early on. No stalls, spins , unusual attitudes etc. it makes a big difference! I've watched a cirrus land over and over again at a 2000 ft strip not far from me and never miss a beat . Nice well controlled landings and takeoffs. Room to spare.( it's based there) At this same airport I've also seen an aerostar land repeatedly coming to visit relatives. I will admit the aerostar pilot is a commercial pilot, lots of lear time and so forth. The cirrus pilot is your regular everyday ga type pilot. Years ago there was lots of hot gas about the mooney and how difficult it was to slow it down. They even put spoilers on them! all hot air. It was and is an easy plane to fly if your instructed correctly. The cirrus is very popular much like the mooney and commanche were some years back. None are safe in the wrong hands.
 
cowman said:
I'm curious, not looking to start an airplane race war but is the SR22 a more difficult aircraft to handle than say the typical Cherokee or Skyhawk? Without looking at the numbers it just feels like we see a disproportionate number of takeoff/landing error type crashes with them.

I ask this as someone who has never flown one, closest I've come is riding in the back seat of an Sr20.
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probably a slippery plane
Cajun_Flyer said:
You have to be able to demonstrate and recover from stalls, as well as recover from unusual attitudes as part of the initial checkride.
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my first lesson ever we did power on/off stalls.
 
Please don't act like basic power on and off stalls prepare you to fly an airplane throughout its entire envelope properly.
 
James331 said:
It's a SR22, not a F104, as far as I've noticed, it's just a more modern single engine trike trainer, designed from the ground up for hobby pilots. Don't fly the numbers, you're not going to have a good time, no matter what you're flying.

Not exactly a fire breathing dragon.
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Judging by the reports on other threads seems like a few more people arriving OSH in something other than an F104 might have had a wee bit of trouble with that speed/altitude thing. Pulling too steep a turn at too low an airspeed trying to "keep it tight" (like the Malibu that pancaked onto the threshold last year), or too high and diving for that first colored dot...
 
GRG55 said:
Judging by the reports on other threads seems like a few more people arriving OSH in something other than an F104 might have had a wee bit of trouble with that speed/altitude thing. Pulling too steep a turn at too low an airspeed trying to "keep it tight" (like the Malibu that pancaked onto the threshold last year), or too high and diving for that first colored dot...
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One of the worst landings I have ever had was my arrival into Oshkosh. Very embarrassing. I didn't crash though so I gave myself a passing grade of C-
 
GRG55 said:
Judging by the reports on other threads seems like a few more people arriving OSH in something other than an F104 might have had a wee bit of trouble with that speed/altitude thing. Pulling too steep a turn at too low an airspeed trying to "keep it tight" (like the Malibu that pancaked onto the threshold last year), or too high and diving for that first colored dot...
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Just fly the thing by the numbers, and remember the approach numbers given for most aircraft are AT FULL GROSS, meaning you should NOT be flying above those numbers shy of gusts at full gross, and don't put the stick forward after you start to flare, pretend there is a ratchet on the yoke and you can't put it forward once you bring it back, that'd eliminate most of these landing failures.
 
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Cpt_Kirk said:
Please don't act like basic power on and off stalls prepare you to fly an airplane throughout its entire envelope properly.
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No one said anything like that. at least what I read. Why the heartburn?
 
Looks like the ATP/CFI no longer owned the plane.

Current owner is a Private Pilot.

Still to early to say, but that makes the excessive speed scenario a bit more plausible.
 
cowman said:
I'm curious, not looking to start an airplane race war but is the SR22 a more difficult aircraft to handle than say the typical Cherokee or Skyhawk? Without looking at the numbers it just feels like we see a disproportionate number of takeoff/landing error type crashes with them.

I ask this as someone who has never flown one, closest I've come is riding in the back seat of an Sr20.
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You asked for a comparison specifically to a Cherokee or Skyhawk. There are reasons those planes are used as trainers. There is nothing magical here. Higher gross weight, faster landing speed (about 77 over the numbers), and small tires add up to a less forgiving plane when landing. These are true for many high performance aircraft. You can probably add springy landing gear when comparing to the Cherokee. When I shifted training from a Cherokee to a 172 with spring steel gear I went through a series of hippy hop landings before I got the hang of it.
 
People train in SRs all the time.
 
James331 said:
People train in SRs all the time.
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Including Air Force pilots:

Cirrus_T53A_Big.jpg
 
James331 said:
People train in SRs all the time.
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Yes and people train in Mooney's and other planes. I recall seeing a plot of landing kinetic energy vs. percentage of landing accidents that are fatals. There was a nice linear curve fit with higher landing kinetic energy being associated with a higher percentage being fatals. This makes sense to me.

I also think it is easier to get behind an SR22 than a 172 due to the difference in speed. The Air Force may train in Sr20's but they don't train initially in F22's.

Things I learned my first day of transition training going from a 172 to an SR22:

1) P factor is very real and not just an academic discussion for a written exam. If you add power for a go-around then your throttle hand had better be connected to your right foot. People have forgotten rudder with power/pitch for the go-around and have dipped a wing and gone into the weeds.

2) Plan the approach phase (descent and power) well before you get to the airport. The instructor said 20" when 20nm out until I was very comfortable. That was good advice.

Learned later as I did my first VFR solo SR22 flights:

1) weather, weather, weather - An SR22 covers territory very rapidly and it is very easy to wind up in a different weather environment. Don't just look up at the sky and say "Looks good."

I do agree with the comment that when it comes to crosswinds an SR22 is much easier than a 172.
 
If people learned from the start in tailwheel and gliders these things would happen a heck of a lot less.
 
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