Remember Kevin Lacey from that "Airplane Repo" show? (cool video)

V

VA Aviator

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
133
Location
Virginia
Display Name
Display name:
VA Aviator
Here's something a little more cheery than some of the stuff I've been reading around here lately.

Young Eagles really is a great program.


 
The shoulder harness is still in the holder wonder if they even have the seat belt on.
 
I used to love that show, up until they cancelled it.
 
Essentially "hangar stories" and enjoyable, provided you didn't take it seriously.
 
Last edited:
HEY! That was the guy who repoed my Cirrus!
 
It's one thing to be a dumbass and not use the shoulder harness when flying by yourself but to not use it and to not make the kids use it is a major form of douchery.
 
Or, maybe he's not a dumbass - maybe he doesn't like wearing it, and accepts the increased risk in exchange for his comfort. And since the kids are his responsibilty, and not of age, he's doing the right thing for them
 
How is not wearing his harness as an example and not making the kids wear them considered doing the right thing for them? He is teaching a very poor lesson. First it is a poor safety lesson, second it is telling them that it is ok to violate the regs. But you seem to be ok with that.
 
Horsefeathers. Having them not eat the panel is a good thing.

He doesn't want to wear it, or he forgot. The kids are too young to make that call for themselves. If they noticed he didn't wear it, and they take up flying, their CFI's will let 'em know.

To your original point, wearing (or not) a harness is not indicative of intelligence level. He clearly isn't a stupid man, or a "dumbass"; a diffrent tolerance level for personal risk isn't the same as being stupid.
 
You really do need to read 14 CFR 91.107. He is violating the regs. He is teaching the kids by example that this is ok. He is not looking out for the welfare of his passengers. He is being a dumbass.
 
SkyDog58 said:
You really do need to read 14 CFR 91.107. He is violating the regs. He is teaching the kids by example that this is ok. He is not looking out for the welfare of his passengers. He is being a dumbass.
Click to expand...
Might want to read it - part 91 - a little closer.
 
Last edited:
What kind of plane is this? I can't tell if it has shoulder harness, and in the older planes that I have flown they did not "retract." And we can't see if the lap belt is in use.
 
tinerj said:
What kind of plane is this? I can't tell if it has shoulder harness, and in the older planes that I have flown they did not "retract." And we can't see if the lap belt is in use.
Click to expand...
Probably a 172. You can see the black shoulder harness right behind the kid's head.
 
SkyDog58 said:
You really do need to read 14 CFR 91.107. He is violating the regs. He is teaching the kids by example that this is ok. He is not looking out for the welfare of his passengers. He is being a dumbass.
Click to expand...
One more try, then calling it a day - I have a beer when cooking out, but I don't give one to my six year old grandaughter. See, I'm responsible for myself and her. When she's older, she can make that call for herself. Yeah, I did demonstrate it might be acceptable - and when she's got the experience and judgment, she'll decide if grandpa was a dumbass or not. . .

You set the bar for "very poor lesson" pretty low - skipping the preflight, or buzzing the school yard would better fall in that category for me. . .

Listen, I wear a harness, and it's cool that you feel like it's important, too. My hearburn is calling the guy out cause he has a diffrent take on risk. The insult to his intelligence and judgement was out of proportion to his "crime".
 
You really do suffer from poor reading comprehension skills, don't you? I'm done with this.
 
I agree that it's extremely irresponsible and negligent not to have all your pax wear seatbelts, including shoulder harness if installed. Can't imagine what he was thinking publishing this for all to see.
 
tinerj said:
What kind of plane is this? I can't tell if it has shoulder harness, and in the older planes that I have flown they did not "retract." And we can't see if the lap belt is in use.
Click to expand...

You seriously cannot see the shoulder harnesses stowed in their holders above the doors?
 
RotorDude said:
I agree that it's extremely irresponsible and negligent not to have all your pax wear seatbelts, including shoulder harness if installed. Can't imagine what he was thinking publishing this for all to see.
Click to expand...
How do you know they weren't wearing their seatbelts?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Oh, I have read it very closely.
Click to expand...

The relevant portion of 91.107:

Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a basket or gondola or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987) must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.
 
FastEddieB said:
The relevant portion of 91.107:

Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a basket or gondola or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987) must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.
Click to expand...

Yes and the airplane was so equipped and the video shows them taxiing and taking off with the harnesses stowed.
 
So 91.107 is the only part 91 regulation about seat belts? Guess I don't need to look at any others then. Just pick and choose the ones I want?
 
91.105 does not provide any relief from 91.107 except for a required crew member may be exempt from wearing the harness if wearing it would make him unable to perform his duties. Two thoughts on that:
1. The young folks on Young Eagle flights are not required crew members.
2. Wearing a harness in a 172 will not prevent the pilot from performing any of his duties.
 
SkyDog58 said:
91.105 does not provide any relief from 91.107 except for a required crew member may be exempt from wearing the harness if wearing it would make him unable to perform his duties. Two thoughts on that:
1. The young folks on Young Eagle flights are not required crew members.
2. Wearing a harness in a 172 will not prevent the pilot from performing any of his duties.
Click to expand...

If it's an instruction flight - which a YE flight can be - and you are signing the logbook the Chief Counsel has stated that the students are not considered passengers, ergo they ARE crewmembers.
If they (the pilot) are in the right seat it does and even sometimes in the left seat it does. I refuse to wear one when instructing from the right seat because if I need to get to the left side of the panel NOW, I can't, especially if they aren't inertial reel belts.

The floor is yours Judgy McJudgerson.
 
EdFred said:
If it's an instruction flight - which a YE flight can be - and you are signing the logbook the Chief Counsel has stated that the students are not considered passengers, ergo they ARE crewmembers.
If they (the pilot) are in the right seat it does and even sometimes in the left seat it does. I refuse to wear one when instructing from the right seat because if I need to get to the left side of the panel NOW, I can't, especially if they aren't inertial reel belts.

The floor is yours Judgy McJudgerson.
Click to expand...

Pretzel_Logic_album.jpg
 
I never noticed the shoulder harness thing until it was pointed out here. On second thought, I might notta' posted that :eek:

I will say that I have flown with instructors that have refused to wear shoulder harnesses during certain phases of flight, citing the 91.107 exemption. I'll also note that this was during post primary training (instrument training) and that I can't see much of a need for them to quickly access the left side of the panel, but whatever.
 
VA Aviator said:
I never noticed the shoulder harness thing until it was pointed out here. On second thought, I might notta' posted that :eek:

I will say that I have flown with instructors that have refused to wear shoulder harnesses during certain phases of flight, citing the 91.107 exemption. I'll also note that this was during post primary training (instrument training) and that I can't see much of a need for them to quickly access the left side of the panel, but whatever.
Click to expand...

In the Cardinal I give instruction in, if you wear the shoulder belt properly, I can't reach anything since it's a hard point - which the ones in the video also appear to be.
 
SkyDog58 said:
You seriously cannot see the shoulder harnesses stowed in their holders above the doors?
Click to expand...

I can see a black something or other. Using a phone, small screen. As I say, I've never been a plane in which the shoulder harness retracts.

I do think they should be used if available. I had them installed on my C-150, and always used them.
 
My shoulder harness was locking up at the slightest movement yesterday in the Chieftain. I quit using it for take off and landing because it could have become a problem if an emergency popped up.

And no, I did not like having to unfasten it. It was fixed for todays flights and I did use it at all phases of flight.
 
I am a noob here...so bare with me.

We all say GA is on life support but then we crap on a guy bringing up kids in the plane on his dime to possibly give new life to GA?
 
Those shoulder betls may not even be functional. When I got my 172 the shoulder belts would no longer snap tight in the lap belt and were just loose. They would pop out in flight. Plus pretty restrictive if you need to reach. I doubt some of those kids would even be able to reach the controls even with the seat full forward with the shoulder belt on. I replaced mine with the retractable kind for comfort and safety. Not cheap but some of the best money I've spent on my plane.
 
Last edited:
midcap said:
I am a noob here...so bare with me.

We all say GA is on life support but then we crap on a guy bringing up kids in the plane on his dime to possibly give new life to GA?
Click to expand...

No. We point out a possible violation of regs, and proper safety precautions, for the edification of others.

Not to mention it's not hard to imagine an instance where not having a shoulder harness in use at the time of a crash could have serious consequences. A child could be forced to go through life with serious facial scars that a simple shoulder belt could have prevented.

Critiquing is what pilots, and especially flight instructors, are prone to do. I suggest getting used to it.
 
midcap said:
I am a noob here...so bare with me.

We all say GA is on life support but then we crap on a guy bringing up kids in the plane on his dime to possibly give new life to GA?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's what crotchety old guys, whose best days are 40 years behind them, do to pass time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top