NA: To buy or not to buy pet insurance?

flhrci

Final Approach
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David
So, I made an appointment next week for my cat to get her annual shots and the vet suggested a fecal test also. Including nail trim ($20), they are estimating $142.50. I am thinking about per insurance with a wellness rider. Plans look to be around $30 or so. The wellness rider would pay $25 on each shot and on the test.

I have to wonder if the insurance is worth it or not on a 6 year old kitty cat. Any recommendations on a good pet insurance plan?

David
 
We were given pet insurance for a year when we adopted our kitten a few years back. 3 days after we got here home, her spay incision got infected. It was a Sunday so we took her to the 24/7 emergency vet thinking the pet insurance would cover it. Nope. $500 to fix her. I think it's a scam.
 
We were given pet insurance for a year when we adopted our kitten a few years back. 3 days after we got here home, her spay incision got infected. It was a Sunday so we took her to the 24/7 emergency vet thinking the pet insurance would cover it. Nope. $500 to fix her. I think it's a scam.
Wow, that's crap! I was looking at my Vet's website and they offer in-house wellness packages. I might go talk to them about it and see if that is the way to go. It would be difficult for them to deny their own program I think.

David
 
Wow, that's crap! I was looking at my Vet's website and they offer in-house wellness packages. I might go talk to them about it and see if that is the way to go. It would be difficult for them to deny their own program I think.

David

The insurance said if she cut herself, it would have been covered, but since it was caused by the surgery, it wasn't.
 
I'm my experience on the plant, shy of folks who have zero common sense and get into "accidents" all the time, insurance isn't worth it for the most part.

Just not a member of the craze, I crunch numbers, look at likely costs for possible situations, how likely I might get into that situation and how much I would have to pay to end up coming out on top with insurance, for me it just doesn't make sound financial sense, thus the reason lobbyist have made the government force folks to buy some types of insurance, and the companies spend so much on sales and marketing.


NOW....

As far as vets, dude pet insurance screams scam all day long.

So the worst poster on here paid $500 for a spay infection, at $30 bucks a month, with the average lifespan of 15 years (at least with dogs and cats I've been around), that's $5,400.00 over the lifespan of the pet, considering the most I've paid was for a spay at a couple hundred bucks, that leaves me with the likely hood of my critter causing $5,000 worth of damage to himself, and that's not even considering factoring your out of pocket for deductibles mind you, AND the insurance co covering it, which is a big IF.

So to me it looks like the only people who make out in this are the insurance companies.
 
I vote scam, but Ive never looked very closely at any of the policies. It would be interesting to go back and see if any of the expensive issues with any of my animals would have been covered. Had a cat that ingested some thread. Pibble with hip dysplasia and a TPO operation. Is a genetic issue like that covered? Both dogs with knee surgery. Do plenty of investigation first. You might find a legit policy, but I bet you wont.
 
Veterinary care is certainly increasing in cost. But once everyone has insurance, the costs will skyrocket. Same thing happened with health costs for people.
 
As a general rule, one should only buy insurance for expenses that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to cover should they arise.

If that's the case, by all means buy it. But otherwise, best keeping the money - on average you will come out ahead.
 
As a general rule, one should only buy insurance for expenses that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to cover should they arise.

If that's the case, by all means buy it. But otherwise, best keeping the money - on average you will come out ahead.
This.:yeahthat:

People sell insurance to make money. If you buy insurance that covers routine things like vaccinations, all you are doing is passing your money to the insuror. The insuror will collect adminstrative costs, pay any commissions due, take a profit, and pass the balance of your money to the vet. The insuror will also attempt to minimize the money he gives to the vet by writing as many exclusions into the policy as he can. All in all, not a good deal.

On consumer product insurance like Best Buy wants to sell you, the profits are in the 50% range. One year I remember reading that 100% of BB's annual profit was due to selling this type of insurance.
 
Veterinary care is certainly increasing in cost. But once everyone has insurance, the costs will skyrocket. Same thing happened with health costs for people.

Indeed!
 
Maybe the vet himself is offering a "maintenance package" that includes discounts on routine vaccinations and tests, and maybe discount on food or other things that might be worth the one-time or subscription fee. In that case, if enough people buy in, the potential is that the cost of those services goes up by the amount of the discount.

Otherwise, as far as pet medical insurance goes, we have a soft-limit on expenses where a decision has to be made.
 
We have PetPlan and have been pretty happy with it. It covered a several thousand dollar dental bill that included major surgery/extraction several years ago. Recently, we had a dental cleaning on our 2 Yorkies and one had an extraction and since the cleaning and extraction was above our deductible, we received a check back for the difference. Never used it for shots as they're under our deductible.
 
I have a now two year old rambunctious puppy who I was certain would get into trouble and looked at pet insurance...here is my takeaway from my research:

-If a $2000-$3000 unexpected vet bill will create financial hardship, get pet insurance.

-If that same pet bill will be a hard hit but you can still pay rent/mortgage and care for your pet...then it is a gamble of the odds if you want to pre-pay or pay as you go for services you may or may not need.

-If that vet bill will just sting but not gonna make a significant dent in your finances, odds say you are better off just paying as you go.

All that depends on your risk and security level comfort. I know folks that have pets with chronic issues that insurance saved their pets and others who never needed it.

I opted against, have had two emergency visits and am still ahead vs if I had gotten insurance.

They are ALL different so be sure you understand what they do and do not cover and consult with your regular vet on what they accept and their experience are with the different plans.
 
$2,000-$3,000 is still less than the $5,000 (not even including deductibles) you'll end up paying for insurance in the end of the day.
 
$2,000-$3,000 is still less than the $5,000 (not even including deductibles) you'll end up paying for insurance in the end of the day.
How is it going to be $5000? The OP said $30/month which is $360/year. Not saying one thing or another about whether or not it is wise to get pet insurance, but you don't need to inflate the cost of it.
 
He's talking about the lifetime cost of the insurance, not yearly. Though at 15 years that's still only $3600

Even at that you may spend less in the long run, but for some people $30 a month is reasonable, while dropping $2-3000 all at once could mean missing their mortgage payment that month. For them the insurance might be a safer risk.

It's kinda like getting a loan on a car. Paying all of it up front is a ton cheaper than financing, but most people cant afford the lump sum all at once.
 
He's talking about the lifetime cost of the insurance, not yearly. Though at 15 years that's still only $3600

Even at that you may spend less in the long run, but for some people $30 a month is reasonable, while dropping $2-3000 all at once could mean missing their mortgage payment that month. For them the insurance might be a safer risk.

It's kinda like getting a loan on a car. Paying all of it up front is a ton cheaper than financing, but most people cant afford the lump sum all at once.

No I haven't had my coffee yet, and it was a long night, but

$30 month, 12 mo $360 a year

$360 year times 15 years

$5400.


As far as not being able to pay upfront, I'd suspect if you're on this board a few AMU for a freak event with pooch ain't going to break you.
 
I think the real question is whether or not people would rather pay in increments or pay the whole bill at once. It doesn't matter either way to people who have enough money for an unexpected multi-thousand dollar bill, but many people are not in that position.
 
Never prepay anything. Just look around for a low cost vet. There are some. I had a neg experience with dog insurance from Pet Smart.
 
Pet Insurance is not an automatic bad thing. There are plans that I've considered for Autumn ~$50/month that would cover some potentially extremely expensive treatments. I'm pretty much an ass to people, but if I'd lay out 5-10k to keep her barking at me.

That said, the wellness plans are a scam. Worst of the bunch is Banfield.
 
We have clients with Horse health coverage who have made claims. The first response is to deny. If you don't fight, they don't pay. Second thing is as soon as the vet learns the horse is insured, the bill skyrockets, just like human coverage. Thirdly, because the policy is underwritten every year, current treatment becomes a pre-existing condition at renewal time, and coverage stops.
Scam, don't know that I'd go that far. Smells bad though.
 
I think the real question is whether or not people would rather pay in increments or pay the whole bill at once. It doesn't matter either way to people who have enough money for an unexpected multi-thousand dollar bill, but many people are not in that position.

Many folks never paid it at all, biggest bill I've ever had was a spay or neuter, and it's not like I'm coddling my dogs ether.



Here's a better idea, if it's a emergency and you can't lay out a few thousand, save the $5000 plus on insurance and in the event of a couple thousand dollar bill (which isn't even likley in the first place) put it on your credit card and break it into payments that way.
 
I only have life insurance and liability on my black lab who I let borrow my plane from time to time.
 
Many folks never paid it at all, biggest bill I've ever had was a spay or neuter, and it's not like I'm coddling my dogs ether.



Here's a better idea, if it's a emergency and you can't lay out a few thousand, save the $5000 plus on insurance and in the event of a couple thousand dollar bill (which isn't even likley in the first place) put it on your credit card and break it into payments that way.
I think a big bill is more likely than you think. I've heard plenty of stories, some recently. You've just been lucky.
 
I think a big bill is more likely than you think. I've heard plenty of stories, some recently. You've just been lucky.

You guys getting pure breed dogs?

All my buddies have mutts, never heard of a crazy vet bill, its the pure breed dogs which you hear about getting cancer and all this other crazy crap.

Of course if you're paying pure breed money you should be able to pay the pure breed vet bills.
 
How you think of your pet matters here. Many people think of their pets as truly part of their families and would spare no expense in their healthcare. On the other hand, there are many who think of their pets as animals that they care for and care about, but who would not spare any expense and would have an animal with a severe (costly) health issue put down. The former might consider insurance, the latter would not. I fall somewhere in the middle, I would not consider insurance.
 
Please don't do math in public.

This is why I shouldn't use other peoples numbers. the other guy put $240 a year and I multiplied by 15. His bad first number, my bad trusting someone else with numbers. Now I see he edited his post, so I'm left looking like the fool. Doh!
 
Here's a better idea, if it's a emergency and you can't lay out a few thousand, save the $5000 plus on insurance and in the event of a couple thousand dollar bill (which isn't even likley in the first place) put it on your credit card and break it into payments that way.

You do realize how much interest on credit cards is right? Insurance might cost more than the lump sum, but making payments on a card is going to be a hell of a lot more than that.

How you think of your pet matters here. Many people think of their pets as truly part of their families and would spare no expense in their healthcare. On the other hand, there are many who think of their pets as animals that they care for and care about, but who would not spare any expense and would have an animal with a severe (costly) health issue put down. The former might consider insurance, the latter would not. I fall somewhere in the middle, I would not consider insurance.

This is a big one as well. I don't have kids, and never plan to have kids, but love the everloving crap out of my dog. Before having a dog I always thought people were retarded for spending thousands of dollars for a surgery on their dog. Now, I'd spend the money in a heartbeat. I have a lot of toys (cars, boats, motorcycles) that I would sell to keep my dog alive and happy. I don't have insurance for her, but it's something I'd consider. Thankfully a hefty vet bill wouldn't leave me homeless though, just hungry.
 
I don't have anything to back this up, but it seems that dog people are willing to spend more than cat people. I have a cat - and this one didn't even get a name. But setting the upper limit is still a tough call when you take on the responsibility of caring for it.
 
We were thinking about it for one accident prone dog but before actually doing it we moved, he matured and doesn't hurt himself so often now, and our new vet is charging us less than 1/4 what the old one was for a typical visit so it no longer seems worth doing.

Find a vet in a rural area. Farmers expect their animals to get patched up without a lot of fuss for not a lot of money and these practices cater to that. The fancy in town place with all the high end diagnostic gear cost about 4-8x more for an average visit and they managed to find something that needed taken care of every checkup. Gotta justify all those machines.
 
You do realize how much interest on credit cards is right? Insurance might cost more than the lump sum, but making payments on a card is going to be a hell of a lot more than that.

For a few thousand of doggie ER, it takes you enough time to pay that back that the interest eats you alive, you got bigger problem than your dog.
 
Well, at the $30/month the insurance costs you'd probably die before paying off the credit card. Just saying, if you can't afford a lump sum payment for a major vet issue, credit card is a way worse option than the insurance.
 
I think the real question is whether or not people would rather pay in increments or pay the whole bill at once. It doesn't matter either way to people who have enough money for an unexpected multi-thousand dollar bill, but many people are not in that position.
I think a big bill is more likely than you think. I've heard plenty of stories, some recently. You've just been lucky.

If you don't have the cash to cover a normal emergency vet bill, you probably shouldn't be in charge of taking care of another life... Just sayin'.

Find a vet in a rural area. Farmers expect their animals to get patched up without a lot of fuss for not a lot of money and these practices cater to that. The fancy in town place with all the high end diagnostic gear cost about 4-8x more for an average visit and they managed to find something that needed taken care of every checkup. Gotta justify all those machines.

So true. Our favorite vet is the country guy who works out of his house and has a clinic in his basement and a pickup truck insert for working large animals. He's easily 1/3 the cost of any vet we've ever visited in town.

That said, he's out working on large animals a lot and if your schedule is tight or you have an emergency, you may not reach him.

We've had to mix our use of him with a more traditional "in town" vet clinic because he's been out when emergencies came up. But we try to do the majority of business with him.

I'm pretty sure if you paid him in cash, there would be a significant discount if he liked you.

Well, at the $30/month the insurance costs you'd probably die before paying off the credit card. Just saying, if you can't afford a lump sum payment for a major vet issue, credit card is a way worse option than the insurance.

Big time.

We spent another $330 on X-rays for the big doggy boy this week. He somehow managed to hit his leg hard enough on the inside to crack the "cap" on the bone that protrudes a little on the inside of the ankle joint, and knock it clean off.

His lower leg swelled up and his paw for a day, and after X-rays and a consult confirmed he did it to himself and it wasn't a bony tumor or something making the bone weak there, he's on good doggie drugs to basically just slow him down a bit for a week to ten days. The "cap" was floating around in the swollen area and the anti-inflammatory drug seems to have taken care of that. He'll have a big lump there on his ankle the rest of his life, apparently. (Although one vet said if that "bothered" us, we could have laser therapy to slowly "melt" it away. If it's not bothering him, I have no idea why anyone would do that, but anyway...

He's already pretty much over it already, but he seems to like being a stoner dog. (Our Husky hated narcotic type drugs and we always suspected she was hallucinating. She'd whine and whine and stare at us or the wall.) The big guy just walks over kinda sideways like he's a little dizzy and stares at you if he thinks there's munchies to be had, and if not, he's asleep somewhere or running around outside flat out like he didn't break anything at all, and little in the way of in-between speeds. He's extremely into belly rubs right now. Ha.

A few months ago he had multiple X-rays for possibly ingesting something which never led to anything conclusive and he went back to eating after about three and a half to four days.

So yeah, about $800 so far this year on klutz boy. He must have whacked himself pretty good to knock the end of that bone off. He's so play motivated, when he did it, the folks at his doggy daytime play place didn't see him do it, but they realized something was wrong when he went inside and laid down covering his leg with his head and quietly growled at any other dogs that looked like they would come close enough to jostle him. Guarding the ankle. Which isn't his personality at all.

Wonder how he did it. Pretty impressive really.
 
Lot's of great info hear and diverse opinions so far. Thanks!

I have made one decision so far. I called the Vet this morning about their wellness plan. For an adult cat on the basic plan, it is a $69 initiation fee and 11 more payments of $27 per month plus 5% off additional services. The PLUS plan adds dental. I will post the link below of what they cover. I think it costs too much. And its not even insurance. The only advantage is spreading och the upcoming $142 for next Friday over time without interest.

http://www.obetzah.com/Documents/wellness/FelineAdultPlansInfo.pdf

David
 
PoA traffic broke his website. He probably has bandwidth limits. "Service Unavailable". If you buy the plan, maybe he can pay for the overage. :)

Price-wise, without seeing the list, that membership total price would pay for one of my dogs to be fully vaccinated every year for ten years at the country vet, and seven years at the city vet.

That would cover full vaccinations including rabies, bordatella, and canine influenza, for one of my dogs at the country vet. Add in monthly anti-heartworm meds and it'd still pay for about half a decade.

What else is included?
 
How you think of your pet matters here. Many people think of their pets as truly part of their families and would spare no expense in their healthcare. On the other hand, there are many who think of their pets as animals that they care for and care about, but who would not spare any expense and would have an animal with a severe (costly) health issue put down. The former might consider insurance, the latter would not. I fall somewhere in the middle, I would not consider insurance.
I'm agreed. I was raised on a farm in the 50s and sixties. Pets were pets. Most of our dogs were strays that showed up, or dogs that some old neighbors who was retiring and moving into town wanted to get rid of. We loved our pets, don't think that we didn't, but I loved the cattle that we sent to the slaughter house every year too. As soon as a dog or cat got sick enough that it was going to be an ongoing cost, it was taken out behind the machine shed and shot. I know that sounds harsh, but that is the way it was. I don't have any pets now. I'm a townie and I don't need to be tied down. But my opinion on elder pet care is pretty outdated and unpopular these days I think. So it is probably better that I don't.
 
As a general rule, one should only buy insurance for expenses that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to cover should they arise.

If that's the case, by all means buy it. But otherwise, best keeping the money - on average you will come out ahead.

Yep. Figure out what the cost for the services would be in each scenario and add the cost of the insurance to that.

There were some folks none too happy with me when I was shopping health care (so-called "insurance"). When you added the cost of the services & deductible under the "HSA-qualified" plan, the total cost came out within about $100 of the PPO plan (with the same services added). And because they wouldn't release the cost of pharma under either plan, one needed to make assumptions (it's not a true free-and-open market if you can't compare costs). That's total out-of-pocket cost. If you had no health care costs in a year, the HSA was better as you got to squirrel the money away. At higher medical expenses, it was really close to a wash. Absolutely no incentive to go HSA. (Unlike my former employer, where a similar analysis revealed that the HSA was markedly less expensive, even before the corporate contribution to the HSA for having a health screening). All plans were UHC plans.

The biggest scam of all, though, is the Homeowner Warranty. ....
 
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