What about Autism?

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After reading some threads on ADD/ADHD I'm wondering what is the FAA's position on Autism? I have a son who is closing in on three years old and is showing some signs of being on the spectrum. This little boy loves airplanes and I'm worried to what level being labeled as someone on the spectrum will affect any future plans towards aviation he may have in the future.
 
Everyone is somewhere on the spectrum. My guess is if the poor tyke can avoid some damn diagnosis he'll be just fine. Then again, a little boy liking airplanes and an adult wanting to fly airplanes are really different animals. Putting cart before horse territory.
 
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/designees_delegations/designee_types/ame/fasmb/media/201102_color.pdf
Formal FAA guidelines do not exist
for autism spectrum disorders. Its broad
spectrum of severity and character sug-
gests that each case must be considered
individually. Decisions are based on
review by FA A consultants, psychiatric
and psychological evaluation, and other
tests as needed.

"Case by case" are FAA code words for "sucks to be you".
 
I was also diagnosed somewhere on the autism spectrum back in high school I believe. Before that I had ADHD at a young age. I currently take medication which would preclude me from getting even a 3rd class medical.

But even if I never taken medication and just had the autism diagnosis come after the ADHD diagnosis, does that mean in the FAA's point of view that I never had ADHD in the first place? Would an autism diagnosis replace the ADHD diagnosis?

Comparing autism and ADHD, I know that both are unfavorable diagnosis for getting a medical, but would one have a better chance of getting a medical if they had autism vs. ADHD and don't take any meds?
 
My son has a significant passion for Aviation and for flying. He flew his first plane, a single engine, at 5 years old. Don't worry, there was a pilot present. The glow on my son's face while in the cockpit, was indescribable. At the time, he was not yet diagnosed with Autism. It was not until the next year, in grade school, that we discovered that he was Autistic. Our son flew his next plane, a glider, I believe, at 12. He is now in the Aviation program as part of his high school curriculum. He struggles with some of the work, but has a wonderful instructor who has an Autistic child of his own. I received a message this morning (03/14/2023) from that instructor telling me that we might consider withdrawing him from the Aviation program given the fact that having a diagnosis of Autism is an automatic denial, and if by a miracle, he is able to get an waiver, he will get a denial based on the medication that he is on. My son will be crushed when I talk with him about this. Does anyone know of any way to still participate with Aviation as a career without actually being a pilot? Thanks
Darrell Maines
 
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Darrell. Type 1 ASD (aka Aspbergers) is potentially a special issuance. If he has this, you should talk to a well-versed AME (doctor who handles aviation medicals) BEFORE he commences an application. Other forms of ASD are indeed a hard NO as far as medical certificates are concerned.

Now, the good news is that if he DOES NOT APPLY for a medical there are a few options available to him for flying. If he is able to obtain a driver's license, he can fly sport pilot which are smaller/slower non-commercial aircraft.

Yes, there are TONS of aviation careers without being a pilot (or otherwise needing a medical certificate). There are maintenance technicians of all sorts (mechanics if you will, avionics (radio) technicians, etc...), for instance. There are tons of other aviation support jobs, some involve being on the plane, many more on the ground (though some have travel benefits).

Good luck.
 
Keep him off the radar with Home Schooling.
 
After reading some threads on ADD/ADHD I'm wondering what is the FAA's position on Autism? I have a son who is closing in on three years old and is showing some signs of being on the spectrum. This little boy loves airplanes and I'm worried to what level being labeled as someone on the spectrum will affect any future plans towards aviation he may have in the future.
I have a 10 year old with Autism. It took us intil around 5 years old to diagnose her. She loves to help dad fly the plane and I could see her being a great pilot as an adult.

I think if he might have autism, go find out ASAP. My wife and I kicked ourselves for years that we didn't figure out what was wrong 2 years sooner so we could get more early intervention to help her.
 
My son has a significant passion for Aviation and for flying. He flew his first plane, a single engine, at 5 years old. Don't worry, there was a pilot present. The glow on my son's face while in the cockpit, was indescribable. At the time, he was not yet diagnosed with Autism. It was not until the next year, in grade school, that we discovered that he was Autistic. Our son flew his next plane, a glider, I believe, at 12. He is now in the Aviation program as part of his high school curriculum. He struggles with some of the work, but has a wonderful instructor who has an Autistic child of his own. I received a message this morning (03/14/2023) from that instructor telling me that we might consider withdrawing him from the Aviation program given the fact that having a diagnosis of Autism is an automatic denial, and if by a miracle, he is able to get an waiver, he will get a denial based on the medication that he is on. My son will be crushed when I talk with him about this. Does anyone know of any way to still participate with Aviation as a career without actually being a pilot? Thanks
Darrell Maines
Wondering how you have tackled this.
Have a HS senior DX at age 5 with ASD(1) and ADHD. Lots of therapy and intervention done in elementary school, including meds.
Start of Middle school he stopped therapy and about a year later (still in middle school, over 4 years ago) stopped meds.
Very bright and good kid.
Aspires to be a commercial transport pilot.
 
Back in the day, the FAA would accept if he made it through college unmedicated and succeeded, they'd give credence for that. Unfortunately, they've backtracked on that. It's likely a tough slog, you should talk to a good HIMS AME. It will certainly involve substantial testing at the minimum.
 
My recommendation would be that if his case is moderate to mild, go sport pilot.

That’s what I did, especially with MOSAIC so close
 
Yep. A couple of well-known twin brothers have ADD and fly.
Were they ever diagnosed though? They are old enough that it was a very uncommon diagnosis when they were in school. They are very energetic, but they seem to also be able to focus on things, remember things and function very well. The one who wrote a book has claimed that his only diagnosis was by an "unqualified councilor", but has also written a book about being ADD. So I guess the unqualified councilor was right? At least if it will help sell books?

I'm probably being overly sensitive, but I have a brother with ADHD and it's been very limiting. Failed jobs. Failed relationships. Failed impulse control.

I have another who is very compromised by autism and will never be able to care for himself. So it definitely rubs me the wrong way when people self diagnose adhd or watch rain man and think that autistic kids have different gifts.

If the twins really have ADHD and have managed to cope anyway, more power to them, but in one of their words it was an "unqualified councilor" and their pattern of behavior looks pretty neurotypical from an external viewpoint. Also: I wish I had their energy!
 
Were they ever diagnosed though? ... If the twins really have ADHD and have managed to cope anyway, more power to them, but in one of their words it was an "unqualified councilor" and their pattern of behavior looks pretty neurotypical from an external viewpoint. Also: I wish I had their energy!
How do they concentrate on jobs that aren't to their liking? One of the things about attention disorders is that sometimes those that have them don't believe they do, as they can obsessively concentrate on certain things. It's the other things that ring the bell.
 
How do they concentrate on jobs that aren't to their liking? One of the things about attention disorders is that sometimes those that have them don't believe they do, as they can obsessively concentrate on certain things. It's the other things that ring the bell.

I mean, that is one of 15-20 symptoms. With ADHD it's never just one thing, it's a constellation of things. The official guideline requires something like 8-10 items out of 15-20 to be present for a diagnosis.

But, to that one point, they both run multiple businesses successfully. That doesn't happen without the ability to do the boring things that are also part of running a successful business.
 
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My nine year old is considered moderate to severe on the spectrum. Huge speech delay and struggles socially. He may never fly for a living, but I have no doubt he could make a good sport pilot later in life, after he gets past his communication barriers. He already does well on MS simulator. He can drive anything. I trust him to drive our boats more than most fully functional adults. He knows this lake, with over 750 miles of shoreline, like the back of his hand.
 
It's a tricky thing to navigate. The current best research says getting kids into therapies as soon as possible results in the best outcomes. As such they're going for diagnosis at younger and younger ages and with many of those being kids who even 10 or 20 years ago would have just been seen as 'awkward' or 'quirky/nerdy' rather than having any sort of disability. From the doctor/school point of view and really most parents there isn't much of a downside to getting them the diagnosis and into therapy. Most of the 'therapy' has no real downside as it's basically just a therapist playing games with a toddler in a targeted way. If the kid didn't really need or benefit from it all you did was waste some time and money for someone to play with your kid. If they do turn out to have real issues though and you didn't go for the early intervention you've missed the best opportunity for improvement.

This puts the pilot parent who knows about the draconian FAA medical procedure in a tough spot. You obviously don't want to skip out on therapies your young kid needs just in case he might want to be a pilot some day. OTOH it's hard to know if they really need it and you really really don't want to have to tell your future teenager who may be in love with flying that they have this obstacle because you let them get diagnosed over a decade earlier.

I'm curious how these actually get handled. I had generally assumed ASD on it's own probably was less of an issue than a lot of the conditions that tend to get diagnosed alongside it(like ADHD). Would someone who got diagnosed with ASD as a young child but hadn't required therapy for years and had no other issues still require special issuance? What kinds of documentation or evaluations would one expect them to need? Might be helpful for parents here making these decisions to know what is and isn't likely to be a big problem.

*One other thing to add is it may be possible to get a pediatrician to refer a child to speech therapy and even occupational therapy without an actual autism diagnosis. It may also be possible to get those services in-school for free without a diagnosis but that's going to vary from school to shcool, state-state based on policy and availability. If you're able to pull that off for a few years and they're able to be in mainstream school/stop the therapies then it shouldn't even be something that needs mentioned on a medical. At least that's our current strategy.
 
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Ta-da.... Wayback machine comes through.
Page 12
Appears this is from 2011. At that time the DSM (physician’s bible) included a DX for Autism AND one for Asperger’s. Soon after (2012?) Asperger’s DX was done away with and lumped in with Autism. Reason for this was so children who would most benefit from the various therapies and be able to have a “normal” life would be able to have their insurance pick up the cost.

Has nothing further been published since 2011?
 
It's a tricky thing to navigate. The current best research says getting kids into therapies as soon as possible results in the best outcomes. As such they're going for diagnosis at younger and younger ages and with many of those being kids who even 10 or 20 years ago would have just been seen as 'awkward' or 'quirky/nerdy' rather than having any sort of disability. From the doctor/school point of view and really most parents there isn't much of a downside to getting them the diagnosis and into therapy. Most of the 'therapy' has no real downside as it's basically just a therapist playing games with a toddler in a targeted way. If the kid didn't really need or benefit from it all you did was waste some time and money for someone to play with your kid. If they do turn out to have real issues though and you didn't go for the early intervention you've missed the best opportunity for improvement.

This puts the pilot parent who knows about the draconian FAA medical procedure in a tough spot. You obviously don't want to skip out on therapies your young kid needs just in case he might want to be a pilot some day. OTOH it's hard to know if they really need it and you really really don't want to have to tell your future teenager who may be in love with flying that they have this obstacle because you let them get diagnosed over a decade earlier.

I'm curious how these actually get handled. I had generally assumed ASD on it's own probably was less of an issue than a lot of the conditions that tend to get diagnosed alongside it(like ADHD). Would someone who got diagnosed with ASD as a young child but hadn't required therapy for years and had no other issues still require special issuance? What kinds of documentation or evaluations would one expect them to need? Might be helpful for parents here making these decisions to know what is and isn't likely to be a big problem.

*One other thing to add is it may be possible to get a pediatrician to refer a child to speech therapy and even occupational therapy without an actual autism diagnosis. It may also be possible to get those services in-school for free without a diagnosis but that's going to vary from school to shcool, state-state based on policy and availability. If you're able to pull that off for a few years and they're able to be in mainstream school/stop the therapies then it shouldn't even be something that needs mentioned on a medical. At least that's our current strategy.
Kids diagnosed in the late 90’s to late 00’s would likely have a DX of Asperger’s Syndrome. But prior to that, yah, awkward/weird or nerdy would be tagged.

My son was diagnosed in 2012 with ASD and ADHD at age 5. He did ABA therapy and others through the 6th grade, took meds until 7th or 8th grade. He’s now a HS senior, honor student, high GPA and in top 20% of his class, he a senior class rep, has a job where he is responsible for the safety of others, he’s good at his sport, and has a host of extra curricular activities.

Most who meet him have no idea he’s on the spectrum and we have the early intervention therapy to thank for that. Even knowing what I do now (that he’s about to embark down a tough road in attaining Class I cert), there’s no way I’d have forgone getting the DX which afforded us insurance coverage for therapy.

As for foregoing an official DX but getting services in the school setting, that would be tough. School systems need an IEP to be able to provide therapy. To get an IEP they need a DX. They typically don’t want their in-house psych’s doing testing as it’s a liability to the school system. So they have an outside source test and DX, then their psych does an add’l short test or two and base their assessment off the DX of the outside source.

Information on what tests a HIMS Psych would perform to evaluate isn’t available that I can find. My guess is this is to prevent people from “studying” or having someone coach the candidate. And really, that’s the way it should be.

As a parent, my approach on this has been as an “evaluator” versus an “advocate”, which has been awkward! Rather than trying to figure out HOW he can attain a Class I, it’s more like CAN he attain a Class I. The only thing worse than having to tell him his journey is not going to be attainable, would be knowing that we pushed and found a way, something happened, and he was responsible for the deaths of others. (I equate this to being the parent of a school shooter - I can’t even imagine.)
 
might want to consider retaining his sport privilege unless you are absolutely sure that you can clear the class I hurdle with ASD if his true desire is flying, vs the common desire/dream of being an airline pilot. . . As you've probably read - denial of a any med application will result in losing his sport privileges as well. So if its truly flying he enjoys - you might seriously want to consider those options rather than the american way of trying to fight through a gauntlet of blockages that they dont want you to cross.
 
might want to consider retaining his sport privilege unless you are absolutely sure that you can clear the class I hurdle with ASD if his true desire is flying, vs the common desire/dream of being an airline pilot. . . As you've probably read - denial of an any med application will result in losing his sport privileges as well. So if its truly flying he enjoys - you might seriously want to consider those options rather than the american way of trying to fight through a gauntlet of blockages that they dont want you to cross.
He’s good at his sport - meaning athletics.
No sporting license and I’m not dropping $10K for his PPL until he does the HIMS Neuro testing.
How odd you speak of the ‘American way of perseverance’ - I have seen no such majority in this generation.

Anyone seeking info on Autism and being a pilot has heard of no more than 5 people who have been able to gain a cert, but I have yet to find a personal account from anyone who has tried and failed.
 
You may want to talk to dr chien. I believe he said he knows of only 2. And of the ones that passed you may want to check to see if they have the official dx oj their record or just that they claim they are on the spectrum.
I have a son - who is 18 and on the spectrum. He is very high functioning but he has problems driving and will flying. I get that. He isn’t going to be a pilot - nor does he want to be. But i am also aware of his limitations and also how society always says - “you can do anything you want to”. Which isn’t always true.
 
He’s good at his sport - meaning athletics.
No sporting license

You understand @Anthem meant a Sport Pilot license, right? No medical required, just a driver’s license. In approved airplanes, he could fly with one passenger in daytime VFR conditions.

BUT - that possibility goes away if he tries to get an FAA medical and is denied. That’s why you might want to think twice.
 
You may want to talk to dr chien. I believe he said he knows of only 2. And of the ones that passed you may want to check to see if they have the official dx oj their record or just that they claim they are on the spectrum.
I have a son - who is 18 and on the spectrum. He is very high functioning but he has problems driving and will flying. I get that. He isn’t going to be a pilot - nor does he want to be. But i am also aware of his limitations and also how society always says - “you can do anything you want to”. Which isn’t always true.

Have emailed with Dr. Chien.
Whether it’s 3 or 5 is a moot point. Where are all the autistic applicants that have NOT been able to get approved?
Your point about driving is valid. If my son couldn’t drive, I’d not be ok with him flying.
Just this morning my husband and I watched from our front door as our son, for the first time, pulled out of our driveway solo. He attained his driver’s license yesterday. (It‘s so bitter sweet!)

I genuinely and sincerely appreciate the concerns expressed. I use them all to evaluate whether or not my son is capable of being a passenger transport pilot. The way I see it, he has to get through me (and his father) prior to making it to the AME, neuro and FAA.
 
You do realize that it isnt necessarily the flying that they are concerned about. While he is PIC, he is judge jury and executioner up in the air. So if they grant him a first class medical - he is the final arbiter on a plane with 400 passengers up in the air. And thats one of their determining factors as well. There are plenty here. Also check r/flying on reddit. The issue is that many come on after being initialy deferred/denied.. . and then they just disappear - whether thats because they cant afford the HIMS process, cant pass the HIMS process, or just cant/wont deal with the complexity of the HIMS process - who knows.
 
You understand @Anthem meant a Sport Pilot license, right? No medical required, just a driver’s license. In approved airplanes, he could fly with one passenger in daytime VFR conditions.

BUT - that possibility goes away if he tries to get an FAA medical and is denied. That’s why you might want to think twice.
Yes, realize he was referring to sport pilot. I think he saw my mention of “his sport” and believed I was referring to my son already having his sport license versus being good at his athletic sport.

The FAA is willing to chance someone with autism (or any other health condition) flying and something happening, risking “only” the two lives in the plane and those on the ground. But my standards are higher - if he can’t get a Class I, I’m not willingly going to allow him fly, much less pay for the lessons and college for him to do it.
 
Yes, realize he was referring to sport pilot. I think he saw my mention of “his sport” and believed I was referring to my son already having his sport license versus being good at his athletic sport.

The FAA is willing to chance someone with autism (or any other health condition) flying and something happening, risking “only” the two lives in the plane and those on the ground. But my standards are higher - if he can’t get a Class I, I’m not willingly going to allow him fly, much less pay for the lessons and college for him to do it.
The FAA isnt. Dont read that thinking its what they are allowing or letting go. The FAA hasnt controlled the sport pilot or glider space as tightly. But that doesnt mean they are "allowing" said conditions to fly. The people flying under Sport who cant get a 1/2/3 medical - are choosing to just use the minimum drivers license restriction and flying under it. So yes in that regard - they are expressly ignoring what the faa has established for the other medicals.
As for your standard - thats great. I believe some sport pilot hours transfer to PPL anyhow.
Best of luck - as I said, Im the father of ASD kid as well. I get a lot of this and wish you the best.
 
You do realize that it isnt necessarily the flying that they are concerned about. While he is PIC, he is judge jury and executioner up in the air. So if they grant him a first class medical - he is the final arbiter on a plane with 400 passengers up in the air. And thats one of their determining factors as well. There are plenty here. Also check r/flying on reddit. The issue is that many come on after being initialy deferred/denied.. . and then they just disappear - whether thats because they cant afford the HIMS process, cant pass the HIMS process, or just cant/wont deal with the complexity of the HIMS process - who knows.
I think the proper words are, "Judge and Bailiff, both while asea" under maritime law. FAA wnats to be certiin their man will "get it right". The very definition of autism spectrum disorder is about defective interhuman relationships....

A past history of documentable, peer leadership roles becomes ESSENTIAL to convincing the agency to give the candidate a chance.
 
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The FAA is willing to chance someone with autism (or any other health condition) flying and something happening, risking “only” the two lives in the plane and those on the ground. But my standards are higher - if he can’t get a Class I, I’m not willingly going to allow him fly, much less pay for the lessons and college for him to do it.
His ability (or not) to learn and obtain a sport pilot certificate will be a good indicator of whether he'd be able to be a safe pilot.
 
...but not neceessarily an indication of having adequate social interactions to have more than a single passenger.
 
...but not neceessarily an indication of having adequate social interactions to have more than a single passenger.
True. I was more responding to the father not allowing him to fly at all of he can't pass a class 1.
 
He's three years old - I don't think there's any minimum age for a Class 3. When he's old enough to do a vision test, that should be good enough. At that point, have him apply for a Class 3 medical certificate before he goes on any medications, and before any diagnosis.

Then let that Class 3 certificate expire. After that, he can fly on Basic Med for the rest of his life.
 
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