Retractable confidence

TexasAviation

TexasAviation

Pre-takeoff checklist
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TexasAviation
So as I've been saving up money and dreaming about buying my first plane, I've realized a retractable fits my mission the best. I'd love the speed for cross countries and can afford the added maintenance. Plus I plan on getting my IR shortly after I buy it, which should help with the insurance cost.

Most of the time, I feel confident about stepping up to a complex plane. I think I'm a good, safe, conscientious pilot. It's the next logical step.

But then there are days like today that make me feel like a total idiot who can't be trusted with a retractable. I did a little practice flight, doing slow flight, steep turns and touch-and-goes at a couple of nearby airports this morning. But for one of the landings, I completely forgot to do a pre-landing check. I realized this just as I was giving it throttle to take off again and saw the mixture was still leaned for cruise.

No harm done, but I felt like such a moron. And I know if I had a retractable that would have been a VERY expensive mistake.

I'm only at 160 hours now, so there's a good reason for my lack of confidence. But I also could see complacency making my dumb mistakes even easier down the road, too.

Most days I think a Bonanza or Mooney or Comanche might be a really great fit for me. Today, though, I'm thinking 182 :)
 
Checklist, checklist, and more checklists. Use the checklist! Not using the checklist can kill you.
 
Start with a Cherokee arrow,witH the fail safe gear system. Don't engage the override, no problem,you have more than enough hours to manage the retrac.
 
Well I've never forgotten the gear on my plane but even if I did, it would start alarming if I went below 85 kts with the gear up. Checklists are good, but when they fall through (forget), you SHOULD have a safety system to back it up.
 
In the retractables I've flown, the lack of drag if the gear are not down on final approach is pretty obvious. One strategy is to build consistent habits. For example, I make sure the gear are down at the beginning of my final descent. In addition, if I'm not flying a straight-in approach, I make sure they're down when I enter the pattern. I may put the gear down earlier than that, but I have gotten into the habit of checking it at those points.

My feeling is that you don't want to have TOO much confidence when flying retractables.
 
Use checklists every time, period.

I think it's easy to get complacent even with checklists...

After I got my certificate I forgot a few things, and, like you, felt like a moron. And no harm done, but I felt like I could forget one thing and end up in an incident or worse. So at some point I just switched to a strictly disciplined checklist use mode.

So far, I haven't forgotten anything:)
 
Checklists are actually the problem, well not check lists, but pilots who make them "do lists".

Make a flow for your plane, do it the same every time, call out 3 green, I do it 3nm from the FAF for 1 dot below the glide slope, I do it a second time on short final, and third right as I'm transitioning to the "flare".


You execute your flow and follow it up with a check list.


If it regimented and you do it the same every time, you'll keep doing it the same every time.
 
James331 said:
Checklists are actually the problem, well not check lists, but pilots who make them "do lists".

Make a flow for your plane, do it the same every time, call out 3 green, I do it 3nm from the FAF for 1 dot below the glide slope, I do it a second time on short final, and third right as I'm transitioning to the "flare".


You execute your flow and follow it up with a check list.


If it regimented and you do it the same every time, you'll keep doing it the same every time.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: that is what it has to be... and multiple checks... GUMPS check to start, call out 3 green, Fence check {Green (Landing gear down), Red (Mixture), Blue (prop)) as you cross the Airport fence line or runway threshold. Whatever you do, it becomes regimented, repeated EVERY time.

Add to that the gear warning horns or other alerts, etc. and it gives you additional cross checks.

Checklists are great but also can become a crutch.

In my plane (Comanche), Mooneys, BOs, etc that are clean airframes that don't want to slow down, your approach will not feel right, you will be having a hard time slowing down. In something like a Beech Sierra that kinda flies like a brick (no offense to any owners) the feeling won't be as pronounced. As with anything else flying, the instant something doesn't feel right to you, crosscheck everything...
 
James331 said:
Checklists are actually the problem, well not check lists, but pilots who make them "do lists".

Make a flow for your plane, do it the same every time, call out 3 green, I do it 3nm from the FAF for 1 dot below the glide slope, I do it a second time on short final, and third right as I'm transitioning to the "flare".


You execute your flow and follow it up with a check list.


If it regimented and you do it the same every time, you'll keep doing it the same every time.
Click to expand...
Correct. However, IMO, a lot of guys substitute flows for checklists when they should be used hand in hand. You have to back the flow up with something. Most of the items I have on my checklist are "killer" items such as boost pump, mixture, flaps, etc.
 
James331 said:
Checklists are actually the problem, well not check lists, but pilots who make them "do lists".

Make a flow for your plane, do it the same every time, call out 3 green, I do it 3nm from the FAF for 1 dot below the glide slope, I do it a second time on short final, and third right as I'm transitioning to the "flare".


You execute your flow and follow it up with a check list.


If it regimented and you do it the same every time, you'll keep doing it the same every time.
Click to expand...

This.
 
In my plane you virtually cannot slow to a landing speed while descending without the gear down, so that kinda forces the issue on you.
 
Here's the thing about gear ups-

Checklists are nice, GUMPS is nice, the whole "you need to slow down to go down" BS is nice, gear warning horns are nice, panel lights are nice, but all that goes out the window if you are stressed and fixated.

A common cause of this stressful fixation is landing at a non towered airport with somebody reporting on the radio that should be right about where you are, but you can't see them no matter how hard you look.

You make radio calls and maybe the other party responds, but you still can't find them and they still sound like they are right where you are. You are now looking everywhere and not finding anything, but your brain says "Hey, here comes the base turn!" so you make the turn and maybe you adjust the flaps. You notice you are fast, so you pull back on the yoke.

Still looking everywhere, but no joy and your brain says- "Time to turn final!". So you start the turn and say, what the hell, I'm still fast, so you pull the throttle back all the way and dump in all the flaps. You're high on approach, so you start a slip. At this point you don't care about the traffic anymore because you just can't see them anywhere and assume he's just bad at position reporting or something. You are now 100% focused on making this landing that is is too high and too fast.

You pull back, get the airspeed under control and slip like a mofo. It's all starting to work out and the numbers are looking real good. Maybe, just maybe, your brain says- "Hey! What's that annoying squawking horn sound? What?? Are we about to stall??!!" You then push the nose over a bit and the numbers are right there, so you start to flare and it's all looking good like it's going to work out fine in the end and you focus on making a nice landing without bouncing or something.

Before you know it, you look a little too low and the scraping sound starts. The sinking feeling sets in and you just know...

This is just one scenario. There are loads of others. On a normal approach, you use the GUMPS and checklist every time. It always works out well. It just takes that one time.

What to do about it? Do your best. Use the checklists, mouth out loud a GUMPS check and be suspicious in the pattern. If you own the aircraft, install an audio voice alert. I think these really help, because they are like your CFI sitting next to you. Lastly, don't stress about it, gear ups never kill anybody and the insurance company makes it right with the plane owner.

I have to now say that I have never had a gear up landing. This is all fiction. I have about 200 hours in Piper Arrows and Cessna Cutlasses and now I have about 250 hours in my Mooney. I have never once come close to a gear up except once during my Mooney check out when the CFI was testing me. It's a whole other post if anybody cares, but that's how I know how a gear up happens, even in a supposedly slippery airplane that can't be landed at the right speed without the gear down.

Trust me, your brain isn't as sharp as you think it is and the sooner you realize this and 100% admit that it could happen to you, the more likely you are to never have it happen to you. IMO, only then do you start to question, "Am I flying this right?".
 
Basic stuff, if you're getting behind the aircraft go around, get your chit together and try again.

In your situation the guy was going to prang the plane retract or not, you can't get that far behind the ball and not bend something or someone, it's just a matter of saying no to being rushed and sticking to your procedures.
 
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What I did is on final do a last minute gear check. What I said outloud is "last chance to save the airplane". And it worked! Saved me once from a gear up.
 
Dav8or said:
Here's the thing about gear ups-



edited for brevity
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You make a bunch of good points. The other thing I've found for myself is that I've turned the gear into a muscle memory item, and I don't deviate from the pattern. Other planes are different, but mine takes some work to slow to flap speed, and gear speed is 5mph slower. For me, every time I get close to the airport it's slow to flap speed, pump the flaps down enough to slow to gear speed and immediately swing the gear handle. If you're consistent with how you do things every time it helps to eliminate the distraction factor, because you're doing the gear almost by reflex. I still do a couple GUMPS checks as I come in, and generally touch the gear handle again on short short final (manual gear, not a switch) but really the putting the gear down part is a reflex and part of the slowing procedure just like pulling back the throttle and the GUMPS check is exactly that, a check.
 
Training is key. My first plane was a retract and the insurance company required 15 hrs since I was relatively low time, like yourself. It was well worth it. All the advice on here is great, but having someone next to you as you practice and get used to it is worth every penny IMHO.
 
Unless your plane is flown by two pilots, I think you should be looking out the window as you approach and fly the pattern, not reading a checklist. Reviewing the landing checklist several miles out is a good idea, but while actually landing I think it's better to use a well-memorized and well-rehearsed flow ritual.

Additionally, I've found when I'm distracted that I'm more prone to skip a checklist item (or the checklist itself) than I am to forget a flow ritual.
 
Most gear up incidents occur because of a DISTRACTION. Anything that takes you out of the normal flow of entering the pattern and going through the checklist. The checklist can be its own distraction. Dave gave some good examples of things that can go wrong. Passengers tend to point out points of interest on the ground when you need them to be quiet so you can concentrate. My intercom has an isolate switch so I don't have to listen to them. GUMP is my checklist so you don't have your head down reading a checklist.
 
There are a few fairly fast fixed gear cross country machines out there these days and if you believe Bryan (I am skeptical) they can be flown more than once.
 
I went into a retrac at a little over 100 hrs. You have to get a routine, but from what I've read, most gear ups are a result of distractions that interrupt the routine.

Nothing in the world is fool proof, but I make a habit of doing a GUMPs check on each section of the pattern with a final glance at the gear down light over the numbers.
 
It was drilled in my head to always do a short final THREE GREEN check out loud on short final. Helped the hell out of me when I was returning to the runway after an engine failure. Caught the gear not down at the last minute.
 
Yeah, I use the gear as a slow-down mechanism (speed breaks) coming into the pattern, so I'd know immediately if they weren't down. When I go first flaps, check 3 green. Second flaps, 3 green. Turn final, 3 green. Short final, full prop, 3 green.

It's my routine to check a dozen times.

In a Piper (no offense guys) you would have to be a complete idiot or for it to be a perfect storm of failures for you to do a gear up. You've got the backup system (I do override mine, but not in the beginning), the lack of 3 green, the low-manifold pressure gear unsafe warning buzzer, the gear unsafe light... not to mention the plane flies differently with the gear down vs. up.
 
flyingron said:
It was drilled in my head to always do a short final THREE GREEN check out loud on short final. Helped the hell out of me when I was returning to the runway after an engine failure. Caught the gear not down at the last minute.
Click to expand...

This is the most important thing you can do and the one thing that should be beat into your brain so you always do the final gear check. Saved my butt once big time. I was on final in my SNJ behind two airplanes when the Tower told me to go around. Just as I applied full power and raised the gear the plane in front of me decided to go around. The tower re cleared me to land. I still had full flaps on and pulled the power back. I kept wondering why the horn behind my head was blaring away. Did the gear check on short final and figured out the problem. I don't care what other checklists you use and most guys go way overboard on them to the point of making them almost useless and over complicated. A simple GUMP works and never forgetting the final gear check works 100% of the time. Don
 
Palmpilot said:
In the retractables I've flown, the lack of drag if the gear are not down on final approach is pretty obvious. One strategy is to build consistent habits. For example, I make sure the gear are down at the beginning of my final descent. In addition, if I'm not flying a straight-in approach, I make sure they're down when I enter the pattern. I may put the gear down earlier than that, but I have gotten into the habit of checking it at those points.

My feeling is that you don't want to have TOO much confidence when flying retractables.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The gear is my first set of flaps.
 
Gas(tank and pump)
Undercarriage
Mixture
Prop

Works great for me and I don't forget the things that are gonna get me in trouble.
 
Gear DOWN
Undercarriage DOWN
Make the GEAR DOWN
Put the GEAR DOWN
Swing the GEAR DOWN

:D
 
Checklist use is the answer, of course, but I like to augment it with checking "gear down" at least three times before I get to short final. Can't hurt.

Bob Gardner
 
another mental mantra I've heard "don't leave the green outside unless you have green inside"
 
bobmrg said:
Checklist use is the answer, of course, but I like to augment it with checking "gear down" at least three times before I get to short final. Can't hurt.
Click to expand...

Checking gear down is also on my before engine start twice. Navions don't have squat switches.
 
It is really hard to forget to do the gear in a short bodied Mooney. The swing of that Johnson bar is an event, and it is really obvious in the panel.
 
A big motivater for me is the buzzer that goes off when MP is at 10 or below. That horn scares the bejesus out of passengers. I fly a 182RG so the gear down is 140 IAS which is pretty fast so there isn't a huge benefit to having that gear up during an arrival.
Gear does go bad but I am pretty confident in the backup system. If that doesn't work either, I guess that just wouldn't be my day.
 
steingar said:
It is really hard to forget to do the gear in a short bodied Mooney. The swing of that Johnson bar is an event, and it is really obvious in the panel.
Click to expand...

In addition, the older mooneys have a low flap speed. It's hard to get that slow in the pattern without dropping the gear.
 
It's amazing how screwed up a pilot can get and ignore the cues. Had a DC-9 (or one of its later variants) land gear up in Houston. The copilot, who had been the pilot flying, noted the anomaly of the plane not slowing down as expected. The captain offered to take off (which the FO did) and won first prize in the belly landing contest.
 
Putting the gear down is so friggin easy to remember that when it comes time for me to forget to do it I'm gonna be really embarrassed.
 
eman1200 said:
Putting the gear down is so friggin easy to remember that when it comes time for me to forget to do it I'm gonna be really embarrassed.
Click to expand...
yup....:goofy:


reverse-1289385527_sookie-scream.gif
 
An instructor I frequently fly with teaches that if I need to put the gear down later than normal for some reason, my hand must stay on the gear lever until I put it down.
 
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