Should I replace my ADF?
- Thread starter steingar
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You often don't need them even if you don't have GPS. They've been losing their navigational significance even in then. When I started my instrument work there was a 50 foot penalty for the middle marker, that's been gone since what... 1993 or so?
Marker beacons are dirt simple, but they have to be sited out on the approach and it's frequently not on airport property and they're losing out to development. The outer for 19L at Dulles I'd pass every day on the way to work, but I think the last bit of highway work on route 28 swallowed it up.
2Airtime2
Pre-takeoff checklist
I could install avionics. My dad was a TV repairman and has an awesome set of tools. :wink2:
I installed car stereo, radar detectors, and even CB radios back in the late 70's/80's.
I've never worked on avionics but am quite confident (if I had the schematic) I could repair anything electronic on a plane (or anywhere else).
Some people have skills and some don't. Don't hate skill havers. I find it amusing when people tell you you can't do something because it was difficult for them to learn how to do it. Some people get things easier than others, deal with it.
I installed car stereo, radar detectors, and even CB radios back in the late 70's/80's.
I've never worked on avionics but am quite confident (if I had the schematic) I could repair anything electronic on a plane (or anywhere else).
Some people have skills and some don't. Don't hate skill havers. I find it amusing when people tell you you can't do something because it was difficult for them to learn how to do it. Some people get things easier than others, deal with it.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Some people have skills and some don't. Don't hate skill havers. I find it amusing when people tell you you can't do something because it was difficult for them to learn how to do it. Some people get things easier than others, deal with it.
This.
And I will take it further, and admit that I've never been a "natural" at many of the skills I possess. Woodworking, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, electronics, etc., did not necessarily come easily or quickly, as they do for some.
What I have is a German stubbornness and stick-to-itiveness, along with the attitude that if you can do it, I can do it. With repetition even the thickest horse can learn.
But WRT modern avionics, there is little mystery to them. If you have Stein build the wiring harness, or even if you do it yourself, it's plug and play stuff that either works or it doesn't.
unsafervguy
En-Route
and what part of title 47 requires certification to install avionics in any aircraft? yes, you need FCC certification to repair avionics, but nothing is required to install them in an EAB and only and A to install them in a certificated aircraft, also some installs do require an IA to sign off a 337.
bob
§87.73 Transmitter adjustments and tests.
A general radiotelephone operator must directly supervise and be responsible for all transmitter adjustments or tests during installation, servicing or maintenance of a radio station. A general radiotelephone operator must be responsible for the proper functioning of the station equipment.
A general radiotelephone operator must directly supervise and be responsible for all transmitter adjustments or tests during installation, servicing or maintenance of a radio station. A general radiotelephone operator must be responsible for the proper functioning of the station equipment.
bluerooster
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shorty
I dunno. A nice GNC300 would work nicely in your Grumman.
I pulled a waas 430 out of my Yankee, and sold it for enough to recover about half the purchase price, even after installing a 300xl.
bluerooster
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shorty
Where's the option for, "Yes swap out your ADF for a new one, I have one to sell you."
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Bob Gardner
unsafervguy
En-Route
from the FCC webpage:
Description
A PG is required to adjust, maintain, or internally repair FCC licensed radiotelephone transmitters in the aviation, maritime, and international fixed public radio services. It conveys all of the operating authority of the MP. It is also required to operate the following:
last time I checked there are no adjustments to be made on avionics when installing, like I said you need it to crack open the box and work on it, but not it just install it.
bob
chemgeek
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chemgeek
ADF units make excellent paperweights and conversation starters. I loved flying NDB approaches during training but never flew one for real in IFR. Ever. In 20 years. Yanked mine when the WAAS GPS went in. Haven't missed it. Save your shekels for WAAS and or ADS-B.
My wife, also a pilot, found the ADF amusing during long XC flights by picking up nearby NDBs and seeing if they were where they were supposed to be.
My wife, also a pilot, found the ADF amusing during long XC flights by picking up nearby NDBs and seeing if they were where they were supposed to be.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Good luck with that. It's a little too bulky to be used as a self-defense weapon.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
I agree. You're either going to want a GPS or DME for your IR. If you can get a cheap GPS and still keep the ADF, then put an INOP sticker on the ADF for your check ride.
I believe NDB's are probably some of the least expensive equipment to maintain, but I understand why they are going the way of the dinosaur. I was really pleased, though, when the FAA decided to keep more of the VOR's, at least for now. It helps those aircraft owner pilots in our midst (like me) who are less blessed with financial resources .
.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I agree. You're either going to want a GPS or DME for your IR. If you can get a cheap GPS and still keep the ADF, then put an INOP sticker on the ADF for your check ride.
Thankfully I have an operational DME. You guys can't seem to get past the part where I'm too broke to have an IFR GPS put in. Jay says its like putting a radio in the car, but my car radio was never hooked up to an antenna, an annunciator, or an autopilot. Nor did my life ever depend on it.
I'm pretty well talked out of doing this. I'll soldier on with an NDB and VOR for as long as I can manage. My guess is the FAA will be as slow in disassembling the radio navigation network as they are about everything else.
You can also use AM radio stations as a makeshift NDB. May not work for an instrument approach, unless you roll your own, but can be used from a good distance out to get you back close to the home drome if you need it for some reason. I don't have the cash for a new (or used plus install) GPS either. And besides, the cost doesn't stop with the install. You have to subscribe to updates, and those aren't cheap either. The FAA has been super successful in shifting costs over to the aircraft owner .
.And thankfully (like I posted in another thread), the FAA has backed off on decommissioning a lot of the VOR's they were planning to. Maybe us less fortunate can keep going using the old equipment for a while longer.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
He can't do that legally IFR anyway and would probably be better off using an iPad or portable GPS in that situation.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think that's a good call. As someone from the Buckeye state, do you ever envision crossing Lake Erie to go to Toronto? If I recall Toronto has an NDB approach that begins over the lake.
Not true! A high time old timer CFII dude would threaten his students by telling them he was going to rip out the receiver and bash them over the head with it if they screwed up one more time trying to fly an NDB approach!
Also, in a indirect way, Ron Brown and all the other souls on board were killed on a NBD approach. Some actually believed this crash was not pilot error and the former secretary of commerce was murdered. For more details go to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKc5WrZeDo
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Use the weight and money on something more useful. ADF is obsolete and most (all?) NDB approaches can be flown with an IFR GPS.
As for the old "listening to ball games" thing, yeah you can do that if you are interested in whatever ballgame happens to be playing on the AM radio station in Nowheresville, America as you fly over it for 20 minutes to 1 hour. Meh. I've tried it in my old 172 that had ADF. Not that useful. People also claim that it's useful as a strikefinder. It does point toward lightning but gives no range information so meh.
My plane has an FM radio receiver which is also not that useful (at least not for the non-schizophrenic pilot). And it has a CD changer. I think I know where I can save some weight pretty soon. For in-flight listening, XM radio is best.
As for the old "listening to ball games" thing, yeah you can do that if you are interested in whatever ballgame happens to be playing on the AM radio station in Nowheresville, America as you fly over it for 20 minutes to 1 hour. Meh. I've tried it in my old 172 that had ADF. Not that useful. People also claim that it's useful as a strikefinder. It does point toward lightning but gives no range information so meh.
My plane has an FM radio receiver which is also not that useful (at least not for the non-schizophrenic pilot). And it has a CD changer. I think I know where I can save some weight pretty soon. For in-flight listening, XM radio is best.
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Eh? Almost NO NDB approaches can be flow with a GPS. There were some "or GPS" approaches out there for a while, but the FAA has mostly done away with these. What usually happens is there is a non-NDB approach to the same airport or perhaps you meant to say that most NDB use (other than NDB approaches themselves) can almost always substitute GPS.
bluerooster
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shorty
Correct to a point. But after install, operational performance must be checked, and aligned to standard if need be. that's where you need the PG.
tsts4
Pattern Altitude
Can't speak for all avionics but IMO I don't see the applicability of the FCC regs on the installation and post-install config and ops checks based upon the Garmin GTN series navigator, SL 30 radio, and GTX transponder install manuals. There's just nothing cosmic about it. At the risk of over simplification, they are essentially plug-n-play devices. I can see if something isn't working right internal to the unit itself that requires the unit to be pulled and "opened up", then a certified shop or the manufacturer has to do that.
Right or wrong, there's a heck of a lot of builder installed avionics in the E-AB world. IOW, it's extremely common whether you agree with it or not.
unsafervguy
En-Route
exactly, the only alignment done is done on the bench at a avionics shop. the most I have ever seen in an installation manual is the KX series suggests that a meter be used to check the antenna. everything else is a pure operational check done in software or by tuning in a radio and looking for proper signals.
bob
The ADF is the only navigation radio that will pick up the ball game...
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Perhaps I meant the latter and also was recalling the former. Thanks.
sourdough44
En-Route
Well, 5 years since the thread was started, even less of a reason to have an ADF. Do they even make new ones anymore?
I still have mine, works, it’s my onboard entertainment when the need arises. The screen is a little hard to read, frequency’s, I can figure it out though.
I still have mine, works, it’s my onboard entertainment when the need arises. The screen is a little hard to read, frequency’s, I can figure it out though.
David Megginson
Pattern Altitude
Lots of AM stations out there, still, for emergency navigation. Here are the ones that are supposed to be receivable on the ground in the Ottawa area: https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/l...&is_cp=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=dist
PeterNSteinmetz
En-Route
Here is an overlay for Foreflight and similar programs which shows the location, frequencies, power and call signs for AM radio stations in the US. One can still use these to navigate with an ADF, though not for a legal fix in a flight plan obviously.
http://steinmetz.org/peter/flying/AmRadioStations.kml
http://steinmetz.org/peter/flying/AmRadioStations.kml
We have one. It occasionally does what it’s supposed to. Mostly used for entertainment.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
I may put my old one in the truck just for fun.
kshaw
Pre-takeoff checklist
I replaced my broken ADF with one from Ebay @ $40.
How about replacing an ADF with a DME for a low budget IFR trainer upgrade. You already have wiring to the audio panel, power and ground for the ADF (maybe not enough power). No external indicator needed. You would need an antenna on the belly.
kshaw
Pre-takeoff checklist
Funny story. I was doing a biennial flight review with a very young CFI. While landing at a nearby airport, the marker beacon sounded and the audio panel started flashing accordingly. The CFI seemed to be startled and wanted to know what that flashing meant. Apparently, no guarantee that young CFIs have even seen one before.
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David Megginson
Pattern Altitude
I have to admit that it surprised me the first time I heard it go off suddenly, flying over Albany NY — I'd seen the lights on my audio panel, but never thought about them much.
All my IFR training and experience had been in Ontario and Quebec, where (at the time in 2003, and still a bit today) we used NDBs instead of marker beacons at the FAF for an ILS approach.