Piper 28-160/180

I'd be willing to bet that they are probably pretty similar. It's going to come more down to the condition of the airplane you purchase.
 
The -180 is a far better airplane, all other things equal. Just a little more gas, all other expenses identical, but that extra 20 hp makes a biiiiiig difference in terms of living with the airplane.
 
I am a pa28-161 owner. I have been spending about $92/hour to operate and have spent thus far this year a little over $2k in maintenance (includes annual costs).
 
I agree with the first post. It all depends on the plane you are talking about, how much deferred maintenance you are dealing with, how heavy the use is/has been, how comfortable you are with things being not quite perfect but still safe, etc, etc. We replaced just about everything firewall forward, with the OH last year. This year, maintenance is just the annual (under $1000) and the required oil changes on the engine maintenance schedule. Next year should be the same with the addition of the avionics recert for IFR. We could spend some money on upgrades for the interior, but we elect to live with the interior as it is.
 
The only difference in maintenance cost between a 160 Cherokee and an otherwise-identical 180 Cherokee should be about $2K at overhaul time -- that's the going difference in price for an O-360 overhaul over an O-320. Other than that, dead even all the way around.
 
These two are a wash on that account. There will be MUCH greater difference caused by the initial condition of the aircraft, and how they are used (abused) than any inherent difference between the types.

And yes, the extra 20 HP DOES make a difference!

The only annual we had that was over $2k was the one where we had the engine rebuilt. I don't think we ever spent over $1000 in repairs between annuals (if you don't count replacing worn upholstery or replacing old working radios with newer working radios)

(PA 28-180 owner for 12+ years)

Flyfishingpilot said:
Any owner of either Cherokee 160 or 180 would like to share their average annual maintenance cost?
I'm trying to gauge the $ difference between those two planes.
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I was a PA-28-180 owner for over 20 years.
Dang good airplane.
That airplane will be good to you with little more than regular TLC and use. In other words, Run it often and keep up with the oil changes and the other little things that go with aircraft ownership.
I did a dumb thing and sold it just because I wanted something else to look at. I found out quickly I screwed up. I miss my Cherokee.
 
Ken Ibold said:
The -180 is a far better airplane, all other things equal. Just a little more gas, all other expenses identical, but that extra 20 hp makes a biiiiiig difference in terms of living with the airplane.
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I fly a Cherokee 180. A friend of mine has a Warrior (160) that I fly in frequently. At cruise I'm only slightly faster than him. Takeoff performance is a huge difference. You will appreciate the extra 20 hp on a hot day. FWIW I can lean to about a 9.9 gph burn rate. I'm not sure if this is consistent with others or not. That's on a low time Penn Yan engine.
 
I bought a 180 as my first plane. So far, we've only been through one annual and it was pretty expensive (to the tune of $4000), with things that IMO the mechanic should have caught at the pre-buy, plus mag checks/rebuilds. That puts me in the minority among cherokee drivers I guess.

We've had only miscellaneous things go wrong - alternator rebuild (love that 1940s GM technology), leaky fuel sumps, but that's it.

I trained in and rented warriors, all but one with the 10 hp bump. Cruise is a few knots faster in the 180, and T/O performance is better (for that matter, landing performance is 'better' to the extent that as soon as you pull power, you'll land whether you want to or not). Load carrying is definitely better, though without the additional rear seat room, you probably won't use that benefit. If I had to do it again, I'd have probably bought a newer Warrior for the same money, but I'm not unhappy.

For my x-cty trips I almost always come out at 10 GPH or just a little less. The Warriors I always planned and usually got 8.5.

The only other planes I've flown are skyhawks and the Sundowner. Wouldn't choose either over the cherokee.
 
I've a 1962 Cherokee PA28-160. 1 year of ownership. $28K airplane purchase. $600 annual. $400 generator. $120 tires. $150 pitot/static/tranx check. 7 oil/filter changes. (about 350 hrs). 7 gph average (6-8).

I love this plane. But would prefer a Cherokee 6.;)
 
Pjsmith said:
I bought a 180 as my first plane. So far, we've only been through one annual and it was pretty expensive (to the tune of $4000), with things that IMO the mechanic should have caught at the pre-buy, plus mag checks/rebuilds. That puts me in the minority among cherokee drivers I guess.
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Something I learned reading these boards is that, when at all possible, have your FUTURE mechanic do your own annual before you buy, even if the last annual was last week. Mechanics differ a lot in what they will pass, and the guy who has been doing the annual on a plane for 5 years passing stuff, is not going to be critical of his own work. But a new guy will, and you get a better idea what it will cost to get it right - and can negotiate the price accordingly. And when he passed it on the pre-buy, he is more likely to pass it on the next annual too.
 
Dwight B. Van Zanen said:
Something I learned reading these boards is that, when at all possible, have your FUTURE mechanic do your own annual before you buy, even if the last annual was last week. Mechanics differ a lot in what they will pass, and the guy who has been doing the annual on a plane for 5 years passing stuff, is not going to be critical of his own work. But a new guy will, and you get a better idea what it will cost to get it right - and can negotiate the price accordingly. And when he passed it on the pre-buy, he is more likely to pass it on the next annual too.
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When you have your A&P do the prebuy, the only question you need to ask is, What will it cost me to get this aircraft thru annual by you next year?

Isn't that really what you want to know?
 
Could be. You could get a 140 or even a 180 for less, but I don't know if it would be as shiny or have the nice avionics.

As always you should think about your mission. I fly a 140 with the 160 bump. My wife and I are tiny people, and we can go anywhere with anything just fine. Throw in 3 bigger people or lots of baggage and you might want the extra horses. Try and top mountains routinely and you might want the ponies. You get the idea.
 
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If it were me, and I had the money, with those numbers I would go for it. I believe in either paying top dollar for the best aircraft, or buying a dog, refurbishing it, and keeping it forever.

With the 160hp you won't have any trouble taking off, even in the hottest of days. Yah, a 180 will do it 20 hp faster, but I wouldn't make that a sticking point. If you fill the seats it will be with midgets, the back seats just aren't that big. The longer flights will take awhile. And the IR ticket will be nice with those big shiny glass panels. My thoughts, your money. Good luck.
 
That looks like a nice one. Price is OK as asking price, but try to get it for under $40K. Buyers market remember. With those speed mods you may get close to 180 cruise speeds, w/o mods. Also check on what the prop pitch is. If it is a 58 it will climb faster but cruise slower. If it is a 60 it will climb slower and cruise faster. I have a 62 on my 180, but that may be a little much for the 160HP. Not sure if it is allowed. The 62 pitch prop on the 180 adds about 5 kts, or you can cruise at the same speed with a slower RPM - so less fuel needed. Again, nice looking plane. Hope it works out for you.
 
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Considering all the "goodies" on it, and the low time on the engine ... that price probably isn't too far out of the ball park. Considering what I've read about your typical mission, this one should suite you just fine.

Didn't take a look at where it is located, so the question would be is it any where near you? Just like realestate .... location location location. If it's in Calif, and you are in Florida ... keep looking. There will be one that is an acceptable substitute a whole lot closer.

Flyfishingpilot said:
I came across this plane...it's a 140/160 but it looks very well maintained... question is this a fair price for it?

http://www.controller.com/listings/...5&dlr=1&guid=DAD26B8B013A4FEBA78796FE2066B70D


BTW, thanks for all the replies!
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I would assume Piper doesn't make the parts, their suppliers do. Fletchair supports the Grumman community by going to the former Grumman, AGAC, and Tiger Aircraft subcontractors and having runs of specific airframe parts manufactured.
 
id disagree. if its in florida and you are in california, whats the problem? its an AIRplane, it flies, it is easily transportable about the country. if its THE plane buy it!
 
Anthony said:
I would assume Piper doesn't make the parts, their suppliers do.
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Yabut a lot of suppliers won't sell directly to anyone other than the factory. They don't want to get a PMA, and they don't want to have to deal with the QC requirements. Selling anything other than "standard" parts like light bulbs, screws, etc. would open them up to SUP investigations.

Fletchair supports the Grumman community by going to the former Grumman, AGAC, and Tiger Aircraft subcontractors and having runs of specific airframe parts manufactured.
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IIRC, Fletchair has the original specs and the rights to produce/sell. And would have, along with that, the obligation to maintain appropriate PMAs and QC programs. If I read the Piper comments correctly, they won't supply the specs to anyone when they shut down support.

Commander had to get full PMA approval (with a complete QC program) even to sell parts that were in inventory when the old company folded. It took, literally, months to get that approval done.
 
mgkdrgn said:
Considering all the "goodies" on it, and the low time on the engine ... that price probably isn't too far out of the ball park. Considering what I've read about your typical mission, this one should suite you just fine.

Didn't take a look at where it is located, so the question would be is it any where near you? Just like realestate .... location location location. If it's in Calif, and you are in Florida ... keep looking. There will be one that is an acceptable substitute a whole lot closer.
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Why? Seems a long cross country a new to you plane is the perfect opportunity to a) learn the plane inside and out, and b) find the squawks right away.
 
That fast, and Piper management is denying they have set a maximum support date or number of years. Seemed like a credible report, but now they call it a rumor. Read the whole thread about this.
 
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