so im looking for a bike...

[SkyHog]

Re: ?? so I'm looking for a reason

My right to free speech has been violated.

Good lord. Do I really have to point this out to you:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Emphasis mine. So unless Greebo recently got elected to Congress....I think they're ok.


sorry if that came out testy, but claiming Freedom of Speech rights is one of my biggest pet peeves, next to the use of "Should of" instead of "Should have"

 

[wsuffa]

For those who weren't here when it happened, after some discussion we elected to create a sub-section of this (the Hangar Talk) forum called Spin Zone. This was done 1) at the request of those users that didn't want to have to wade through a pile of political and controversial posts, and 2) as an alterntive to turning this board into an aviation-only forum. Spin Zone is set up so our members don't have to even see the forum if they don't want to.

All we ask is that members place political or other controversial non-aviation topics in the Spin Zone forum, and leave the Hangar Talk forum to be largely non-political. Posts that are in the wrong forum are subject to being deleted or moved (in the same way as "for sale" items that are posted in a general forum will be moved to "Classifieds").

As for a "freedom of speech" issue, there is none.

As long as the post doesn't violate our stated Rules of Conduct, AND it's posted in the correct forum, it will generally remain untouched. We will take action (including locking threads or deleting) against posts that spin off into personal attacks, foul language, spam, racist/sexist comments, or contorversial politics outside of Spin Zone, etc. And the management council discusses the decision process and almost every post that appears to be a violation of the RoC. (As a side note, this - like most other internet forums - IS a private board and therefore can set rules for participation).

Two other things: 1) we don't discuss specific disciplinary actions on the open forum, and 2) we ask participants to keep discussions of the policies of other forums to a minimum here (there's not much to be gained by discussing the policies, for example, of Red over here).

The point is that we want this to be a front porch (or back porch, depending on your view) of the local airport....

Now, as for this thread, let's try and move it away from the policies of a particular board....

Thanks.

 

[SkyHog]

For those who weren't here when it happened, after some discussion we elected to create a sub-section of this (the Hangar Talk) forum called Spin Zone. This was done 1) at the request of those users that didn't want to have to wade through a pile of political and controversial posts, and 2) as an alterntive to turning this board into an aviation-only forum. Spin Zone is set up so our members don't have to even see the forum if they don't want to.

All we ask is that members place political or other controversial non-aviation topics in the Spin Zone forum, and leave the Hangar Talk forum to be largely non-political. Posts that are in the wrong forum are subject to being deleted or moved (in the same way as "for sale" items that are posted in a general forum will be moved to "Classifieds").

As for a "freedom of speech" issue, there is none.

As long as the post doesn't violate our stated Rules of Conduct, AND it's posted in the correct forum, it will generally remain untouched. We will take action (including locking threads or deleting) against posts that spin off into personal attacks, foul language, spam, racist/sexist comments, or contorversial politics outside of Spin Zone, etc. And the management council discusses the decision process and almost every post that appears to be a violation of the RoC. (As a side note, this - like most other internet forums - IS a private board and therefore can set rules for participation).

Two other things: 1) we don't discuss specific disciplinary actions on the open forum, and 2) we ask participants to keep discussions of the policies of other forums to a minimum here (there's not much to be gained by discussing the policies, for example, of Red over here).

The point is that we want this to be a front porch (or back porch, depending on your view) of the local airport....

Now, as for this thread, let's try and move it away from the policies of a particular board....

Thanks.

Oh, so now we can't discuss the red board?? You're taking away my first amendment right to peaceably assemble!

 

[Chache]

Re: ?? so I'm looking for a reason

Um ... Thank G-d, No, you don't.

I didn't say that anyone passed a law...or attempted to...
I simply stated that my rights were violated......
by deletion of a comment, (which did not warrant such action) , effectively "censoring" my opinion.
Simply because it did not agree with his view.

Again read what the page header says about content...
" Any Subject" "as long as discussed in a civil manner"

Other "objectional posts" have been moved, to "Spin zone" ....
....(rhetorically) ...why was mine deleted?

Had he simply moved it I would not have had an issue with that.

The Gov't. has established that I may say whatever I wish, as long as it does no harm,
( i.e. I can't just yell FIRE!! in a theatre...etc,)
That I cannot be prosecuted for that which is my opinion.
and, That I have a right to say, print, etc, what I feel.
Even if the "Publisher" disagrees with it......
or if it is in opposition to the governing body's viewpoint.

Anyone that causes this to be taken away or restricted,
violates that, which the Government has established.

And... That's the point that some, who refer to the wording of
the First Amendment to the Constitution of The United States of America, don't seem to get.

I understand the rules that apply to Political discussions, But this was not a political discussion. It was about the media attention given to some rich "CONVICT" as it were, while truly important matters of the world, (Examples were given) don't even get a mention.

Another poster stated that he/she couldn't find the facts in my post,
I then posted my sources.

And.... I have the same pet peeves as you, and then some... When warranted.

PS..... Greebo had nothing to do with it.
My complaint lies with the individual deleter. He could just as easily have moved the post to Spin Zone. But he chose to remove it in it's entirety.

Good lord. Do I really have to point this out to you:




Emphasis mine. So unless Greebo recently got elected to Congress....I think they're ok.


sorry if that came out testy, but claiming Freedom of Speech rights is one of my biggest pet peeves, next to the use of "Should of" instead of "Should have"

 

[SkyHog]

And I contend that is incorrect. If I walked up to a man who was shouting "The end is nigh!" on my front porch, I'd have every right to make him stop.

There is no "Right to Free Speech" in private areas (like a membership based forum for example). The only places that free speech is guaranteed is in public areas. For specific case law, look into Broussard v. School Board of Norfolk or Webster v. New Lenox School District.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

I had my Anna Nicole thread deleted over at AOPA. People were like "WHAT DID BROOK DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!!"

 

[drafttek]

Re: ?? so I'm looking for a reason

The Gov't. has established that I may say whatever I wish, as long as it does no harm,
( i.e. I can't just yell FIRE!! in a theatre...etc,)
That I cannot be prosecuted for that which is my opinion.
and, That I have a right to say, print, etc, what I feel.
Even if the "Publisher" disagrees with it......
or if it is in opposition to the governing body's viewpoint.

Anyone that causes this to be taken away or restricted,
violates that, which the Government has established.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and of course, wrong.
The First Ammendment guarantees free speech in a public forum free from Government censorship and reprisals. This allows the People to criticize the Government without fear of punishment by the Government. Private citizens, on the other hand, are free to shun, shout down, ignore, and ridicule just as a speaker is free voice his opinion. That said, a private messageboard is not a public forum with Constitutional guarantees. If the owner or his agents delete or censor a posting, they have every right to do so as the poster has no First Amendment rights in this area.

 

[Chache]

And I contend that is incorrect. If I walked up to a man who was shouting "The end is nigh!" on my front porch, I'd have every right to make him stop.

There is no "Right to Free Speech" in private areas (like a membership based forum for example). The only places that free speech is guaranteed is in public areas. For specific case law, look into Broussard v. School Board of Norfolk or Webster v. New Lenox School District.

We'll just have to agree to disagree...

Different situation.
If the guy is on your front porch.. You have every right to remove him from your porch, but you cannot "legally" stop him from speaking his opinion.
True.... you could bash his head in, to stop his shouting, but that isn't legal. This holds true, even if and when a person is deemed "Mentally incompetant. Nor, can you (legally) physically restrain him.

However, this is more in line with this discussion:

Emphasis mine...

Dean v. Utica
On October 12, 2004, Judge Arthur Tarnow determined that the Arrow was an example of a limited public forum after reviewing the degree of control school officials exercised over the paper, which ultimately separated this case from the decision expressed in Hazelwood. A limited public forum--in this context, a public forum created for use by student editors--can reasonably be regulated in terms of time, place, and manner of expression, but not on the substance of that expression.

Need I say more?

 

[SkyHog]

Need I say more?

That's a pretty good reference, and I missed that.

 

[Chache]

I had my Anna Nicole thread deleted over at AOPA. People were like "WHAT DID BROOK DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!!"

Poor Brooke... You didn't do a thing...

People accept things like this, with unfounded or generally accepted beliefs,
that the practice doesn't violate whatever rights you'd think you have.
Next time around they remember that such and such happened ,
and it reinforces that erroneous belief.

Then when it's contested,
Whoa!!! you're ....really really wrong! (sigh!)

Sorry you were censored.

 

[wsuffa]

Thread closed pending review by the members of Management Council.

 

[Greebo]

Three quick reminders for folks that seem to need it:
1) PoA reserves the right to edit, remove or take any other action we deem appropriate with any material posted on this forum, and the final decision of any action taken rests with the Management Council. Every one of you agreed to these terms when you registered, as they have been a part of the RoC since day one, and I should know, because I drafted the RoC.

2) Public discussion of any disciplinary action taken by the MC is prohibited by the RoC, and again, has been since day one.

3) We are a wholly private organization, and have the absolute right to restrict any content we desire. The arguments that privately funded and operated messages boards are somehow public property subject to First Amendment regulations have been tried and dismissed from courts of law on multiple occasions.

I will not discuss publicly any of the specific violations of RoC that have been brought up here, other than to say that the decision of the Management Council was unanimous and remains resolute. Any further discussion between any members who have been disciplined by the MC should be kept to PMs.

Realising that I am replying to a closed thread, any questions or comments about the above stated policy reminders may be directed to the Site Feedback and Support forum, quoting the pertinent passage or passages if necessary, so long as the questions or comments are not pertaining to specific disciplinary actions.

Thank you,

Chuck "Greebo" Haeberle
PoA Management Council