When you land at bigger airports, Do you get pressured to land quickly

[jpower]

Flew into Bradley Intl BDL up in Connecticut once in a 172. Kinda sleepy little Class C, though I had an American 737 breathing down my neck. Pretty easy though--went fast until short final, chopped the throttle, dumped the flaps in the white arc, chirp chirp. Pretty fun too. And I'm sure many of the passengers on the 737 were like "Whoa look at that little guy, he must be crazy to fly in such a small plane!"

....or more likely they didn't notice me.

 

[James331]

Not really.

If I'm flying something like a turboprop I can keep the speed just fine, if I'm flying something like my plane I can keep my pattern very tight, or stay low and out of airspace easier than something larger and faster.

No matter what don't get rushed, expediting or keeping it tight is fine, but never rush.

If you're not comfortable with something "unable" only thing that slows ops more than a slow 172 is a bent 172 on their airport.

 

[flyingron]

"Landing quickly?" no.

What I've been asked to do is keep my speed up on final. The nice thing about "bigger" airports like IAD (where I was based for years) is that the runways are long. Hell, the first high speed exit is 4500 feet down the runway. Even putting it down past the fixed distance markers (to avoid wake turbulence concerns) I can get off there.

Standard approach for me in the 172 was full power down to short final, then close the throttle, drop 10 at 110, the rest at 85 and slip hard (yeah, I know).

In the Navion it was about the same except I usually had to nose up to get 87 knots before throwing out all the flaps and gear. This manouver sometimes got comments at night asking what sort of aircraft I was flying (the switch to a near vertical descent after I'd been doing 160 knots seems to confuse them).

 

[JCranford]

Once during my training (Class D, not *that* busy), I was on short final with a Lear on a long final behind me. *I* got the call to go-around so the Lear could land first. Seems I had the right of way if I'm not mistaken.

Instructor said the controllers do that all the time in an effort to cater to the fast movers possibly hauling 'important' people. Airport was trying to become more of business jet destination than it was.

 

[jordane93]

Once during my training (Class D, not *that* busy), I was on short final with a Lear on a long final behind me. *I* got the call to go-around so the Lear could land first. Seems I had the right of way if I'm not mistaken.

Instructor said the controllers do that all the time in an effort to cater to the fast movers possibly hauling 'important' people. Airport was trying to become more of business jet destination than it was.

The controller will send the Spamcan around over the jet any day.

 

[MAKG1]

Once during my training (Class D, not *that* busy), I was on short final with a Lear on a long final behind me. *I* got the call to go-around so the Lear could land first. Seems I had the right of way if I'm not mistaken.

Instructor said the controllers do that all the time in an effort to cater to the fast movers possibly hauling 'important' people. Airport was trying to become more of business jet destination than it was.

A Lear will spend a LOT more money on a go around than you would, and would make a lot more noise.

Right of way rules are for nontowered airports. Tower controls the runway.

 

[luvflyin]

When you land at bigger airports do you feel pressured because of the bigger planes that want to land ahead of you? Does that happen a lot?



I always learn something from your posts and for that I'm truly grateful!

Yes, they pressure me sometimes. Do I GET pressured to do it too quickly to be safe? No.

 

[PilotRPI]

You are the PIC. If you can safely within your limits speed up or slow down as requested to help someone out, go for it. If it makes you at all uncomfortable, especially since you are a student, or you think it won't be safe, just nicely say unable. No reason to stress.

 

[Everskyward]

Airplanes with a wide range of speed are often asked to go faster or slower as the traffic dictates.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Airplanes with a wide range of speed are often asked to go faster or slower as the traffic dictates.

The request is made even of aircraft without a wide range of speed. I've been asked more than one to keep my speed up for a Citation behind me while practicing approaches in a 172 (you know where ).

Not a lot of variation between cruise and approach in a 172, although the fact we were going "downhill" meant I was able to do the approach a bit faster than cruise.

 

[Everskyward]

The request is made even of aircraft without a wide range of speed. I've been asked more than one to keep my speed up for a Citation behind me while practicing approaches in a 172 (you know where ).

Not a lot of variation between cruise and approach in a 172, although the fact we were going "downhill" meant I was able to do the approach a bit faster than cruise.

But have you ever been asked to go slower in a 172?

 

[steingar]

Only place I've had that happen was CRW. Keep up speed on landing. Cherokee, sure no problem. Expedite climb out, airplane is expediting as best it can.

They ask me to maintain speed in the Mooney they can hang. Mooney does lots of things fast. The one thing is doesn't do fast is land.

 

[rgrentz]

In my ppl training the second leg of my long cross country I landed at ATL and was asked to peddle faster?? I resopnded that I was student pilot and would do my best. They were nice about it.

 

[midlifeflyer]

But have you ever been asked to go slower in a 172?

No, but (I think I mentioned it before), I have been asked to go slower in an Archer (not at KAPA; at KORL). Pretty much the same thing.

 

[Everskyward]

No, but (I think I mentioned it before), I have been asked to go slower in an Archer (not at KAPA; at KORL). Pretty much the same thing.

Following a Cub?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Only place I've had that happen was CRW. Keep up speed on landing. Cherokee, sure no problem. Expedite climb out, airplane is expediting as best it can.

They ask me to maintain speed in the Mooney they can hang. Mooney does lots of things fast. The one thing is doesn't do fast is land.

I notice you said "Keep up speed on landing." The common one is to keep speed up on "approach." I've never been asked to touch down and land fast and would refuse in any airplane.

The fast approach is not an issue in a Mooney (it's asked for so much at KRDU that many pilots just do it without being asked). We're talking runways that handle business and commercial jets. Plenty of distance runway to slow down for touchdown.

 

[steingar]

I notice you said "Keep up speed on landing." The common one is to keep speed up on "approach." I've never been asked to touch down and land fast and would refuse in any airplane.

CRW had me at full throttle across the numbers, no kidding. It was a PA28 and a long runway so no worry.

The fast approach is not an issue in a Mooney (it's asked for so much at KRDU that many pilots just do it without being asked). We're talking runways that handle business and commercial jets. Plenty of distance runway to slow down for touchdown.

I go across the threshold at cruising speeds in the Mooney and I'll float all the way to Saskatchewan. Damn thing does not slow down very well.

 

[DoubleD]

I've been asked to maintain max speed many times. It's a skill all pilots should have in their bag. Once practicing approaches at CHS, a joint use airport, I was asked to slow down for a flight of two F-106's to be vectored in front of me, then on the same approach, asked for max speed for a flight of four C-141's behind me. Stay flexible.

 

[JB1842]

I was asked to land long with a high speed taxi at Oshkosh. But that's normal there.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I go across the threshold at cruising speeds in the Mooney and I'll float all the way to Saskatchewan. Damn thing does not slow down very well.

True. I had to modify my instrument approach slightly when I started flying one regularly.

But I'm really just reacting to the "they can hang" comment. A request for best forward speed is for whatever means your best based on your tolerance of the risk and the behavior of your airplane. That's all they are asking for. It's not a command you have to obey. It's a request. If you can you can, If you can't you can't.

No problem giving them what you can and telling them what you can do. Nothing wrong for example with, "We can give you 120 until 3 miles out" of whatever else works for you in that airplane.

 

[steingar]

True. I had to modify my instrument approach slightly when I started flying one regularly.

But I'm really just reacting to the "they can hang" comment. A request for best forward speed is for whatever means your best based on your tolerance of the risk and the behavior of your airplane. That's all they are asking for. It's not a command you have to obey. It's a request. If you can you can, If you can't you can't.

No problem giving them what you can and telling them what you can do. Nothing wrong for example with, "We can give you 120 until 3 miles out" of whatever else works for you in that airplane.

I got news, the folks at CRW didn't make it sound much like a request. However, the word "unable" is firmly ensconced in my vocabulary.

Good thing I don't have to go back there any more. Nothing against Charleston, just wasn't my favorite spot.

 

[jspilot]

I got rushed on my first solo! Was flying out of KISP at the time( a fairly busy class c used by Southwest mostly.). It was my first trip around the pattern and I was nervous obviously. I've got myself set up for a landing when Southwest Airlines 737 reports in on a 6 mile final. I'm just turning base mind you at this time but I'm cleared to land. The 737 is approaching and, as soon as I touch down the Controller comes on and says, "make the right turn onto runway 33r and contact ground. Well I'm already passed 33r and can't make the turn. I quickly say "unable" and he basically did not even wait for me to unclick the mic before the tower comes on and says, " without delay exit the runway at the first available exit, 737 short final!" I got off the runway and stopped and turned my head around just in time to see the 737 in full flare just about to touch down. I literally just made it past the stop line! It was kind of awesome honestly.

Man this is almost 6 years ago and I can still remember it vividly!

 

[SkyDog58]

I got rushed on my first solo! Was flying out of KISP at the time( a fairly busy class c used by Southwest mostly.). It was my first trip around the pattern and I was nervous obviously. I've got myself set up for a landing when Southwest Airlines 737 reports in on a 6 mile final. I'm just turning base mind you at this time but I'm cleared to land. The 737 is approaching and, as soon as I touch down the Controller comes on and says, "make the right turn onto runway 33r and contact ground. Well I'm already passed 33r and can't make the turn. I quickly say "unable" and he basically did not even wait for me to unclick the mic before the tower comes on and says, " without delay exit the runway at the first available exit, 737 short final!" I got off the runway and stopped and turned my head around just in time to see the 737 in full flare just about to touch down. I literally just made it past the stop line! It was kind of awesome honestly.

Man this is almost 6 years ago and I can still remember it vividly!

Meh... minor thing.... unless it is your first solo. Wow! Sounds like you did well.

 

[ejensen]

I notice you said "Keep up speed on landing." The common one is to keep speed up on "approach." I've never been asked to touch down and land fast and would refuse in any airplane.

The fast approach is not an issue in a Mooney (it's asked for so much at KRDU that many pilots just do it without being asked). We're talking runways that handle business and commercial jets. Plenty of distance runway to slow down for touchdown.

Going down hill in my Mooney into Pensacola I was asked to slow down for the Navy trainer in front. Smooth air with power on I was around 180 knots.

 

[MSPAviator]

Yes, I was landing a 115hp Citabria in a gusty crosswind at KFCM. They had maybe 4-5 VFR planes in the pattern and I was landing in front of a King Air coming in on an IFR flight plan on a straight in visual approach.

I was already on the ground on the landing roll but still had some distance to go before I made it to a taxiway turnoff. I forget the exact wording but I was basically told to hurry up because there was a plane landing behind me. I said "unable, crosswind, 3DA" over the radio while my feet were VERY active trying to keep the plane from ground looping. Probably 10 seconds later I had made it to the turnoff and was clear of the runway.

The plane behind me landed normally and I contacted ground and taxied back to the FBO without incident, although it took a painfully long amount of time for my Hobbs paying self.

Just another busy day for the controllers and pilots at KFCM, I didn't consider it to be anything more than that and I was never given a phone number to call or anything like that.

 

[jspilot]

Meh... minor thing.... unless it is your first solo. Wow! Sounds like you did well.

Yeah it was nuts. My instructor was very happy with how I handled it. It was a great experience and a story to tell.

You are right though, looking back there was so much I did not know back then( I'm sure I'll be saying this 6 years from now too!)

 

[rk911]

When you land at bigger airports do you feel pressured because of the bigger planes that want to land ahead of you? Does that happen a lot?

I always learn something from your posts and for that I'm truly grateful!

I've landed at several class C airports with no issue or request to 'expidite'. a couple of the class C's were actually less busy than my home class D

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Keep up your speed,is a request from the controller,your the one flying the airplane. However if your feeling the pressure don't go into those airports during their busy times.

You are in essence correct, but I would submit that if you cannot safely keep your speed up in such a situation, you have no business going into a place like ATL at rush hour in the first place.

^^^ both of these, so much.

If you can't handle some speed adjustments, stick to flying at a farm.

Don't go to a busy airport at busy time and get big-headed in your piston single and f*ck their sh*t up. Hurr durr, "unable" I'm PIC and and you can't make me do anything I do want to.

And by the way, the approach controller separates you. Not the tower. Lol

 

[Skip Miller]

You are in essence correct, but I would submit that if you cannot safely keep your speed up in such a situation, you have no business going into a place like ATL at rush hour in the first place.

Coming into KISP I was given a "maximum forward speed" in an Archer II.

"I can give you 130 to the fence if I can have the whole runway to land".

Throttle wide open, nose down enough to keep on glide slope. At the fence, approximately 200 feet AGL, close the throttle and maintain level altitude, to slow outside of ground effect. At Vfe put in full flaps, keep the nose level, then descend and land.

Both times I have been asked to do this I received a "Good Job" from the controller. Actually it was the Ground position that said that. Tower was busy.

 

[Reedster]

Happened to me last week landing at KLEX in the Saratoga. Approach: Can you give me a little more speed, I am going to put you in before a CRJ. I was indicating about 160 in my descent, a quick glance at my ground speed showed 187.

My pilot/passenger in the right seat smiled and said; "don't think he quite knows what a Saratoga is".

Approach handed us off to the tower before I could reply, who quickly asked if I might prefer a different runway. I politely accepted.

Keeping my speed up until on final (the Saratoga slows down pretty quickly), I landed and rolled out while the CRJ flew the approach, landed, and taxied to the gate before I even turned off the runway. Not sure what the approach controller was thinking, but I would have offered to do a couple of turns while they went ahead of me. Wouldn't be the first time, and often get a Thank You from the guys in the jet.

 

[Kritchlow]

But have you ever been asked to go slower in a 172?

Depends on the model of Citation he's following.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I got news, the folks at CRW didn't make it sound much like a request. However, the word "unable" is firmly ensconced in my vocabulary.

Good thing I don't have to go back there any more. Nothing against Charleston, just wasn't my favorite spot.

It doesn't matter what it sounds like.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Meh... minor thing.... unless it is your first solo. Wow! Sounds like you did well.

The problem is that some CFIs don't spend enough time teaching students they don't have to obey everything ATC says blindly. On top of that there are plenty of people who tend to see ATC as authority figures and are wired to automatically acquiesce.

There was an incident at Denver Centennial some years ago. Student on solo landed and received a "turn left next taxiway" instruction. Instead of a simple "unable" did her best. Ended up in the weeds between parallel runways.

 

[SkyDog58]

Well, the CFI who was most responsible for my early flying skills development while emphasizing "aviate-navigate-communicate" told me that if you are too busy with the first two that the third can wait and that includes responding to ATC requests or instructions. But he also told me to do my best to not get in a position where the first two were too overwhelming. That means staying ahead of the aircraft, exercising good situational awareness and being able to anticipate what might happen next. His advice has worked well for me.

 

[jordane93]

The problem is that some CFIs don't spend enough time teaching students they don't have to obey everything ATC says blindly. On top of that there are plenty of people who tend to see ATC as authority figures and are wired to automatically acquiesce.

There was an incident at Denver Centennial some years ago. Student on solo landed and received a "turn left next taxiway" instruction. Instead of a simple "unable" did her best. Ended up in the weeds between parallel runways.

Amen. A lot of times tower will rush my students and tell them to exit the runway without delay. I always tell them we should try to accommodate tower as much as possible but if it compromises safety don't do it. It is our runway once we get a landing clearance

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Only place I've had that happen was CRW. Keep up speed on landing. Cherokee, sure no problem. Expedite climb out, airplane is expediting as best it can.

They ask me to maintain speed in the Mooney they can hang. Mooney does lots of things fast. The one thing is doesn't do fast is land.

When your asked to keep your speed up at a place like teterboro and your in a mooney , it's not a problem at all ( or at least it shouldn't be) as the runway is so long that its a piece of cake. As I recall its over 10,000 feet which is more than four times what you need. It should be obvious why they sometimes ask you to speed things up. They have a lot of big expensive iron in the pattern quite often, and your holding things up. If it bothers you that much stay away from those locations.

 

[coloradobluesky]

Heard this one? ATC tells Boeing to go into a hold. Boeing driver says "it costs 1000 dollars to go around once in a hold with the airplane". ATC says, "Give me 4000 dollars worth"

 

[coloradobluesky]

I once was landing at a Class D and it had snowed and was snowing. The runway was partialy covered with these wave shaped snow formations, I think they call them "snow cups". Anyway the grass and taxiway were covered by them also. I leveled out to flair and looked down and saw grass now that I was close enough to see. I had lined up on the grass medium between the runway and the taxiway (they were all about the same width. The lights werent on. It was daytime, but they shoulda been on). Anyway I landed and as I whizzed by exit A3 tower says to me "exit A3". I'm unable back at him. Then I hear "so and so airlines going around". The guy behind me had to go around.

Now legally I had the right to do what I did. But the unwritten code between pilots says I should have gone around. And I agree, I should have since it was my mistake. I didn't know that at the time, but learned it later "through the pilot grapevine".

Take it for what its worth....

 

[arnoha]

I've had this happen more than once. The most memorable ended in a go-around for me, unfortunately. Landing 2 at PHOG for crosswind practice in a 172L, winds are 36G42 at 060. Turbulence is fierce. And I collect a 757 on my tail. I'm restricted to Va due to the turbulence and am asked for best speed. Couldn't go any faster than the 90 I was making with all the bumps. My sister was in the back seat vomiting her guts out. Yay, airsickness! Had wheels inches above the runway, fighting the crosswind, no flaps, deliberately fast to keep rudder authority, and I was told to go-around. Oh well...landed 5 on the go-around and never got the crosswind landing in that day. I would have loved to say I had landed a 172 in that kind of crosswind!

 

[woodchucker]

And by the way, the approach controller separates you. Not the tower. Lol

I think it really depends on the facility. My class B approach sequences the big guys and separates the little guys, but ultimately tower takes care of us little guys from around 5 miles out.