Catalina Island

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JOhnH

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Right Seater
My wife and I are planning a cross country from the East Coast of Florida to Catalina Island in about two weeks from now. I have heard it is best for your first trip to the island to go with an experienced local CFI. Can anyone recommend anyone in the area that might be able to help us with this saga?

Along the same vein, where would be a good place on the mainland to fly into and stay for 2 or 3 days?
 
What are you going to be flying,and where are you going to cross over?
 
frfly172 said:
What are you going to be flying,and where are you going to cross over?
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The "what" is a Bonanza V35 with an IO520 with 80 gallons (74 usable) and trues ~165kts.
The "where" is undecided at this point.
 
Me? I'd go right into KSAN, park and stay downtown SD at any of the nice hotels. Have a good meal on Shelter Is, take a pedicab around the bay area, maybe a cab out to Point Loma, or whatever you like. Then, head out and go up the coast to near Long Beach, and head over to Catalina.

You don't need a CFI to land at Catalina, just realize that the runway is crowned, and when you get down in ground effect, you won't see the other end. Hit your speeds, keep your hand on the throttle, and you'll be fine. Do a normal take off, and don't pull it off green, in fact I like to skim right over the runway on departure, and watch the land fall away to the west! Weeeeeeeeee! Navigate around the north end of the island, take some pics of the bay, and then head for the mainland.

Have fun, see the sights, spend some money, get a tan, catch a fish, go to the Old Globe theatre, Maybe the SD Zoo, ride the trolly to Tijuana and back. Have a buffalo burger, and take the tour on Catalina.
 
I have to wonder if that advice was directed at pilots who are newer to flying than yourself. I won't disagree with it, if you have decided that is the safest route, go for it. Just not sure it's entirely necessary.
 
Gah! How could I forget? San Diego Air and Space museum, and Balboa park. Hours of fun for aviation people. Brisk walk from the FBO or grab a cab up and back.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have to wonder if that advice was directed at pilots who are newer to flying than yourself. I won't disagree with it, if you have decided that is the safest route, go for it. Just not sure it's entirely necessary.
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Flying into Catalina has some tricks-'there's a PVASI, a strong downdraft if you get low on final, it's rough, and because of the crown it looks like you're going tho fall off the end- lots o' smoked tires that had half the runway left.
 
JOhnH said:
Along the same vein, where would be a good place on the mainland to fly into and stay for 2 or 3 days?
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Fullerton is the most GA-friendly of the southern L.A. Basin airports. Since it's also a little further inland than LGB, SNA or TOA, you'll have more altitude as you start crossing the channel. There are tons of tourist-oriented hotels nearby, as both major theme parks and the Anaheim sports venues are all in the area.
 
Suggest a side-trip to CNO - some pretty cool planes on the tarmac. I've not been to the museum there, but sounds worthwhile.
 
Check the hours that the shuttle vans are operating. I almost missed the last van of the day. It would be a long walk into town.
 
Pilawt said:
Fullerton is the most GA-friendly of the southern L.A. Basin airports. Since it's also a little further inland than LGB, SNA or TOA, you'll have more altitude as you start crossing the channel. There are tons of tourist-oriented hotels nearby, as both major theme parks and the Anaheim sports venues are all in the area.
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I'd suggest Fullerton for sure.. go see Disney and Knott's Berry Farm.... more hotel options than you can shake a stick at.

As to conquering Santa Catalina... I was in a club and then a rental outfit out of Fullerton and the two places requiring specific checkouts were Catalina and Big Bear.

Catalina: 25 miles over ocean with a table top crowned runway... visual can be deceiving. It's not really all that rough (compared to other paved runways in "average" condition).

Big Bear: It's up near a mountain lake with more less one way in and out and some pretty high density altitudes for us SoCal flatlanders.

If you do want to get some local familiarization I highly recommend Garret at Fun Outside Aviation (Fullerton airport).
 
warthog1984 said:
Flying into Catalina has some tricks-'there's a PVASI, a strong downdraft if you get low on final, it's rough, and because of the crown it looks like you're going tho fall off the end- lots o' smoked tires that had half the runway left.
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I'm familiar. I just don't recall any concerns.
 
JOhnH said:
My wife and I are planning a cross country from the East Coast of Florida to Catalina Island in about two weeks from now. I have heard it is best for your first trip to the island to go with an experienced local CFI. Can anyone recommend anyone in the area that might be able to help us with this saga?

Along the same vein, where would be a good place on the mainland to fly into and stay for 2 or 3 days?
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The who kind of depends on where you want to launch from. And I don't think you need a CFI. At most just bring along an experienced Bo driver that's made the trip a few times. There's a few on this board based in the area.
As to the where, shoot you could fill two pages on all the cool places to stay and things to see in SoCal.
Another factor is your comfort factor going over the water. If you want to keep it as short as possible the LA area is where you want to launch from.
 
Always wondered what the big fuss was over a 3000 foot unoccluded asphalt strip.
 
Not to go off topic too far,is Catalina any harder to land at than,block island Rhode Island. About the same lengthy ,and both at the top of the Island.
 
frfly172 said:
Not to go off topic too far,is Catalina any harder to land at than,block island Rhode Island. About the same lengthy ,and both at the top of the Island.
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I was actually wondering the same thing. We go to Cedar Key (CDK) all the time and that runway is about 700 ft shorter that AVX and has it's own set of disorienting issues. But my wife is the PIC and she asked me to ask.

At any rate, I think we got some good advice already.
 
frfly172 said:
Not to go off topic too far,is Catalina any harder to land at than,block island Rhode Island. About the same lengthy ,and both at the top of the Island.
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The runway at Catalina is 1560' above the surrounding water. Rather, I should say that the approach end of 22 is 1560' above the water; two-thirds down the runway it is 1602' above the water, and then it levels off. It makes for some interesting visual illusions on the approach, and some very real downdrafts at the approach end.

Super-pilot skills are not required, but a competently-trained private pilot does need to bring his 'A' game and think it through.

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That said, it is well worth the trip. Only 26 miles from mainland, it might as well be a thousand miles away. The area around the airport itself is quiet, scenic and interesting. The 45-minute shuttle bus ride to Avalon is spectacular, and Avalon itself is a lot of fun.

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Trivia: The entire island was owned by the Wrigley family. Wrigley's Chicago Cubs held their spring training on the island 1921-1941, and 1946-1951. The buffalo on the island are not native; local lore says a few head were brought over for filming of a western movie in the 1920s, and they were left there to do what buffalo do.
 
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KAVX is no big deal, beautiful flight over, over blue water which does take a little getting used to (did the engine just cough??). The crowned runway IS a deal but if you have ever flown to another one, the difference from the terrain that Avalon sits on is not a significant challenge IMO.

Traffic coming and going can be a challenge, the guy manning UNICOM will help with that, there are a couple 'standard' approaches in, from the south we usually come in to the VOR, cross midfield and join the pattern, from LA they seem to join over the marina north of the airfield (forgot the name). It does get busy occasionally. I want to take the Yak over sometime.

SoCal Approach is great to work with.

As for other sights to see, in San Diego the Midway Museum Ship is not to be missed, The Air and Space Museum at Balboa Park is great (rest of Balboa Park is pretty cool too), as is the San Diego Maritime Museum collection; the Battleship Iowa Museum Ship in Long Beach is awesome but a little short, the Queen Mary is cool and about 10 minutes away or so.

'Gimp
 
AcroGimp said:
The crowned runway IS a deal but if you have ever flown to another one, the difference from the terrain that Avalon sits on is not a significant challenge IMO.
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Agree. The most common error by first-timers is approaching way too high (figuring that landing just a little bit short would result in an impressive deceleration). They dive for the runway, build up beaucoup speed, then float in ground effect. They know there's a big dropoff at the end of the 3200' runway, but they can't see it because of the crown at the second turnoff. That's usually where the panic stops and blown tires happen.

Fly your normal approach angle and stay on speed, and you'll be fine.
 
Pilawt said:
Agree. The most common error by first-timers is approaching way too high (figuring that landing just a little bit short would result in an impressive deceleration). They dive for the runway, build up beaucoup speed, then float in ground effect. They know there's a big dropoff at the end of the 3200' runway, but they can't see it because of the crown at the second turnoff. That's usually where the panic stops and blown tires happen.

Fly your normal approach angle and stay on speed, and you'll be fine.
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I thought it was approaching too low and getting caught by the downdraft just short of the approach end of the runway.

Absolutely agree with you on staying on speed, however. Biggest error I see when too high anywhere is diving for the runway and building energy that needs to be dissipated later.
 
frfly172 said:
Not to go off topic too far,is Catalina any harder to land at than,block island Rhode Island. About the same lengthy ,and both at the top of the Island.
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Block Island, at only 100' above its surroundings doesn't have the same mountain-like approach issues as Catalina at 1500' above its surroundings.
 
CRQ nice place. Not much around there, couple hotels and restaurants but as for an airport it's fine. Need to watch for low marine layer from May through Sept, usually burns off by noon. I haven't been there in a few years, but doubt much has changed. LegoLand nearby if you have kids, it's kinda fun.
 
:yeahthat:

A few years ago new facilities were built at KCRQ to cater to the jet crowd, at the expense of the light GA community. On our last visit there a few years ago we got the distinct impression we would have been more welcome if our Bonanza had smelled more of kerosene ...

If you think you'd like to visit San Diego, Montgomery (KMYF) would be a more welcoming and convenient destination. Just my opinion.

If you fly direct from San Diego to Catalina you're over water for about 70 miles. Instead, fly up the coast to DANAH intersection, then direct to KAVX and you cut the over-water distance in half.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
One would think that a certificated pilot would know how to slip and airplane.
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One would think.

But it doesn't even require a slip. At most, all it needs is a mildly steeper approach created by lifting the nose to the short field configuration to produce a 4.5 degree glide path rather than a "standard" 3 degree one. Not at all that different from many mountain airports. But what a lot of us continually see is a dive that steepens the approach while increasing airspeed.

Personal opinion is that, unless the airplane has no flaps or it's some sort of emergency-like conditions that make staying high until the last minute advisable, a slip is for the purpose a correcting a faulty too high approach.
 
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The key with the runway at KAVX is the need to over rotate on the flare because of the upslope to avoid a 'solid' arrival. Ask me how I know....

'Gimp
 
frfly172 said:
Not to go off topic too far,is Catalina any harder to land at than,block island Rhode Island. About the same lengthy ,and both at the top of the Island.
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Ridgetop fields in mountainous terrain do have additional challenges related to winds. Downdrafts coming off the cliff face are not at all unusual.

It's not just about runway length.

It gets even more fun at airports with a ridge on final. Angwin (2O3) is fun in high winds….the damn airplane won't descend unless you cut it close to the ridge and cut the engine to idle. And on the other end, if the wind speed is just right, it won't like to climb on takeoff.
 
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You can practice at one of the airports with a mesa like ours (5T6 Dona Ana) or Sedona which have the same down draft on your way out west. I hit a downdraft at Catalina when I went with the Tiger, but no big deal we get them here all the time. The upslope requires a little extra nose up in the flare, runway used to be a little rough, not sure if it still is ...
 
We made it there and back with no problems. The toughest part was departing KMYF under a very busy KSAN bravo. We were able to pull off the runway at the first taxi ramp.

But that huge craggy rock sure did look intimidating.

The runway wasn't as bad as some people on airnav made it sound. And everyone was super friendly. And the "Bonanza buffalo burger" was quite good.
 
JOhnH said:
Is anyone familiar with CRQ?
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A little late to the party, but I'm based at CRQ and like it a lot. Most of the airport is pretty jet biased but Western Flight caters to the piston crowd quite well. There's also a county transient tie down area if you don't need FBO services (Western will fuel you there if needed).
 
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