406 MHz ELT

Do you have a 406 MHz ELT

  • Total voters
    79
AKBill

AKBill

En-Route
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
3,735
Location
Juneau, AK
Display Name
Display name:
AKBill
How many of you have change out your 121.5 MHz ELT to the 406 MHz version?

If you have not changed when do you plan on going with the 406 MHz ELT?

Most owners I know still have the 121.5 MHz installed.

I have been told that officially the 121.s MHz ELT is currently not monitored. But last year airport maintenance entered the hanger I was working in and were scanning for a 121.5 signal. I had activated the ELT during an annual inspection to test and forgot to reset it. I apologized for wasting there time, rest the ELT and installed.

So what is the best bang for the buck with the 406 MHz ELT?
 
Satellites that monitored 121.5 were never very good and were decommissioned 6 years ago after 10 years of notice that it would happen. Local RCC doesn't even respond to 121 beacons unless there's corroborating evidence that it may be an emergency.

I switched to an Artex ME406 about 9 years ago. At that time it was the clear choice. These days there are more players in the market and ACK is the most popular because of price, easy replacement of the older D cell ACK 121.5 beacon, and it offers simple connection to most handheld or panel mounted GPS units for GPS location in the initial 406 burst.
 
Stewartb said:
Satellites that monitored 121.5 were never very good and were decommissioned 6 years ago after 10 years of notice that it would happen. Local RCC doesn't even respond to 121 beacons unless there's corroborating evidence that it may be an emergency.

I switched to an Artex ME406 about 9 years ago. At that time it was the clear choice. These days there are more players in the market and ACK is the most popular because of price, easy replacement of the older D cell ACK 121.5 beacon, and it offers simple connection to most handheld or panel mounted GPS units for GPS location in the initial 406 burst.
Click to expand...

I have all the components to install the ACK, mounting tray and remote cockpit activation switch. I think I will go with ACK.
 
I have a portable PLB, manufactured by ACR. The club planes I fly are equipped with 121.5 ELTs only....
 
Last edited:
AKBill said:
I have been told that officially the 121.s MHz ELT is currently not monitored. But last year airport maintenance entered the hanger I was working in and were scanning for a 121.5 signal. I had activated the ELT during an annual inspection to test and forgot to reset it. I apologized for wasting there time, rest the ELT and installed.
Click to expand...

The tower, or other receivers, will pick up a 121.5 beep on the airport. It's when it beeps a hundred miles from anyone that nobody notices. Here in Canada, there are millions of square miles that are hundreds of miles from anyone listening to 121.5. And it doesn't take a hundred miles; an ELT on the ground has a tiny horizontal range. It's a very weak signal.

I have installed several 406 ELTs and have seen numerous others that have not been installed properly. The ACK fits the rack and connects to the remote just fine, but that rack is often mounted to the aircraft skin. The RTCA requirements for a 406 is that it be mounted to primary structure and cannot move more than 0.1" in any direction when a 100-pound pull is exerted on it. Skin-mounted racks let the thing move too much and can trigger false alarms, or tear loose in a crash and disable the whole thing when the antenna cable rips off it.
 
121.5 still. If I flew in an area out west or AK then I'd definitely get one. In the SE I'm always on FF for Xcountries and for local flights I'm almost never out of gliding range from populated areas. Cell phone is always on me as well and very few places of no cell coverage.

Plus, I just donated $10 to the CAP kids today at Walmart. They'll find me.:D
 
My mechanic and owner of the local FBO suddenly became a fervent evangelist for the gospel of the 406 mHz ELT, and urged all of his customers to get one, ASAP.

It seems that a couple of summers ago he was flying his PA-12 to his remote hunting cabin in the mountains east of Talkeetna, Alaska, and ... well, read the rest of the story here:

http://www.adn.com/2013/07/02/296174...all-plane.html

Excerpt:
The men were prepared for rough weather but the mayday didn't get picked up until about 3:30 p.m. Monday, a full day after the crash.

The plane used older equipment that transmits on a frequency that can only be picked up by an aircraft flying overhead. Newer beacons transmit information to satellites that are monitored by the U.S. Mission Control Center.
Click to expand...
On my next annual I had him install a 406 unit in mine.
 
I replaced a broken 121 ELT this last annual with another 121 unit. I just considered it a tax. No interest in the 406 choices for airframe mounted, as I have fine cell phone reception where I fly and the terrain is road connected to civilization and benign (south central and plains US), thus the expense didn't fit my recreational budget. If I could legally do so, I'd have no ELT at all. If I ever follow through with my overwater bucket list trip, I'd invest in a PLB.

all that said, I don't fault the AK remote flyers from having it installed in their airplanes. Their frequency of remote terrain flight makes the statistical likelihood of finding themselves in a land survival situation worth the expense of the airframe mounted 406.
 
Got a EPIRB, though I can get into some backcountry I'm not too too far out. The ACK isn't too spendy and I like the tech and ease of upgrade, its something I will probably buy, just after my HIDs, new panel (not new avionics) and a few other little things.
 
I've got a 406....but only because the plane came with it. I'm not an advocate for ELTs doing much but locating wreckage.
 
When my 121.5 unit broke (well, the batteries leaked and the case melted) and an exact replacement in good condition couldn't be found, I was faced with a) buying a new 121.5 or b) going 406. I chose the 406. After installation, the cost of replacement was nominal.

The pain is periodic reregistration.
 
My understanding is that 406s require a different antenna, so installation is not trivial, what is the install costs?
 
teejayevans said:
My understanding is that 406s require a different antenna, so installation is not trivial, what is the install costs?
Click to expand...

Many of them have an antenna that goes in the same hole as the old one. The Pointer Skyhunter is an exception, and its antenna installation and reinforcement and sealing will take a day or more. The ELT itself needs a rigid mount and sometimes some structure has to be made for it. Time lost there, too. And then the remote has to be installed in the panel and the cable routed, both of which sound simple but are often time-consuming jobs.

Every airplane is different.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Many of them have an antenna that goes in the same hole as the old one. The Pointer Skyhunter is an exception, and its antenna installation and reinforcement and sealing will take a day or more. The ELT itself needs a rigid mount and sometimes some structure has to be made for it. Time lost there, too. And then the remote has to be installed in the panel and the cable routed, both of which sound simple but are often time-consuming jobs.

Every airplane is different.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

With my plane, the ELT antenna was a simple swap, same hole. The ELT came with antenna and cable. We did it at annual, so running the replacement cable was easy, too (some can use the old 121.5 wiring if you have a panel switch).

If you get a 406 with the GPS interface, things can be a bit more complicated.
 
In my previous plane (2006 SR22) I had a 121.5 ELT and I bought a 406 PLB. The new plane came with 406 ELT so now I have both on the 406 band.
 
I carry a PLB - and I mean carry it as "on my person" but it still doesn't supplant a 406 ELT, which I don't have yet. Nothing is 100% sure but your percentage is definitely better with one than without. The old 121.5 ELT's do nothing much beyond satisfy the legal requirements. I can't see purchasing a new one, may as well go the extra mile and get a 406.
 
If so many have gone to 406s, where are all the removed Narco ELT-10s? (I need one. Maybe two)
 
ACK 406 ELT for me. It was an easy swap for the ACK 121.5.

Just the same, I think that carrying a PLB is a higher priority than installing a 406 ELT. The PLB is what I'm most counting on to get search-and-rescue.

I carry the PLB in my pocket when I fly -- it's important that it be on your person, because you won't think about digging it out of a flight bag or seat-back pocket before deplaning after the excitement of an off-field landing. Before I get in the plane, the PLB goes in my pocket. I keep it right by the hangar door for that purpose.
 
I don't see the point of wasting piles of money on lottery tickets, ELT's, or ADS-B. Odds of winning are pretty much all the same.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I don't see the point of wasting piles of money on lottery tickets, ELT's, or ADS-B. Odds of winning are pretty much all the same.
Click to expand...
Agree as to lottery tickets and ELTs. Not sure where ADS-B fits in there. My plane's previous owner almost put in a 406 before selling it to me, but the vendor was unexpectedly out of stock or some other reason that delayed the shipment, so he canceled the order. I won't bother until it's required. For rescue purposes I'd rather get a PLB and am starting to think more seriously about it, now that I fly over some fairly remote areas.
 
A good friend of mine just retired from the service where he was a Pave Hawk captain for RCC in Alaska when he wasn't doing SAR in war zones. If any of you PLB or 121.5 guys could spend 5 or 10 minutes talking to a guy who actually does SAR for a living? You'd have a 406 ELT on top of your to-do list.

In Alaska a PLB beacon is handled by State Troopers. They may send a VPSO out on a 4 wheeler to check on you. An EPIRB is routed to USCG. An aircraft ELT goes to the Air Guard. If I'm in dire straits and need help I want a C-130 or Pave Hawk with a crew that includes PJs (Air Force equivalent of Navy Seals) and a trained battlefield Medic. I've seen them work. Impressive.
 
Last edited:
Stewartb said:
A good friend of mine just retired from the service where he was a Pave Hawk captain for RCC in Alaska when he wasn't doing SAR in war zones. If any of you PLB or 121.5 guys could spend 5 or 10 minutes talking to a guy who actually does SAR for a living? You'd have a 406 ELT on top of your to-do list.
Click to expand...

Sure he flys in Alaska. That's a no brainer up there. How often east of the Mississippi are aircraft actually missing for days at a time?

As far as SAR in a war zone. We didn't even have ELTs. :yikes:
 
If you do get a 406 MHz ELT, get one with a GPS receiver or interface. While the first pass location for any 406 ELT is way better than the 121.5/243 ELTs, GPS improves this significantly and it eliminates the average 30-40 minute delay waiting for a satellite to fly overhead (with GPS your position is received by a geostationary bird).

The antenna will need to change but in most cases this is simple. Often the bigger challenge is the newer strength requirements for the ELT mount. Also you'll need to run wired from the ELT to the panel.
 
121.5 ELTs had the same structural installation requirement for many years, FWIW.
 
Artex's Me406 replacement, the Artex 1000, now comes standard with GPS interface and has a lower cost. They are also working on a more GA cost friendly unit.

There have been reports of a lot of issues with the g-switches in almost all the 406's and the units are having to get sent out for repair or replacement.
 
NOAA used to send email notices to remind users to update ELT registrations every two years. I haven't seen a reminder in longer than that and suspect my registration is outdated. Are you guys getting renewal reminders?
 
I bought the Emerging Lifesaving Technologies model ELT406GPS.
With the GPS it is very accurate...

Why in the world would anyone not want one? (especially with GPS) I am sure the guys/gals would change their mind after they went down and truly needed it.

The amount I paid for the unit and install was more than i wanted to spend but I think it was well worth it..
 
Stewartb said:
NOAA used to send email notices to remind users to update ELT registrations every two years. I haven't seen a reminder in longer than that and suspect my registration is outdated. Are you guys getting renewal reminders?
Click to expand...

Yes, I got my renewal reminder for my PLB this spring.
 
A beacon response begins with a telephone investigation to validate a possible emergency. A fast launch for any rescue assets in Alaska(where I'm familiar with the system) is 30-45 minutes. An hour is more typical before a helicopter or C130 gets airborne. In that time, assuming the beacon continues operating, the rescuers will have a location solution that's accurate to 10-15 meters. The advantage of GPS enabling is the initial beacon will provide a position, which would help if the airplane burns or sinks or if the ELT otherwise is compromised. Most of us say we'll trip the beacon from the panel switch if we know we're in trouble. Sometimes accidents don't come with a warning. There's no perfect solution but there are several overlapping technologies that make locating us pretty certain. I have a 406 installed and also have a Spidertracks unit hard wired. My Spider account info is attached to my beacon registration. I don't know of a better safety net but truth is the Spider offers more advantages than safety. Choices are out there.
 
Stewartb said:
NOAA used to send email notices to remind users to update ELT registrations every two years. I haven't seen a reminder in longer than that and suspect my registration is outdated. Are you guys getting renewal reminders?
Click to expand...

Yes. I do. For both my 406 ELT and my PLB.
 
Velocity173 said:
Sure he flys in Alaska. That's a no brainer up there. How often east of the Mississippi are aircraft actually missing for days at a time?
Click to expand...

Routinely.

Even with an ELT, you can expect to be in the field for 24 hours or more if you have no flight plan filed, especially if you were not on flight following. Much of that is because no one knows you're missing.

ATC ignores them unless lots of pilots complain or a family member calls reporting an overdue airplane. We had one going across northern California for more than three days until NCT finally opened a search. Turned out to be an Archer going off at an airport in the Sierra foothills.

It is eminently possible to go down in a forest without anyone noticing, especially if you ran out of fuel and had no fire. And there are some spots even on the East Coast that are very remote. God help you if you go down in the mountains of eastern Tennessee or on an uninhabited barrier island.
 
MAKG1 said:
Routinely.

Even with an ELT, you can expect to be in the field for 24 hours or more if you have no flight plan filed, especially if you were not on flight following. Much of that is because no one knows you're missing.

ATC ignores them unless lots of pilots complain or a family member calls reporting an overdue airplane. We had one going across northern California for more than three days until NCT finally opened a search. Turned out to be an Archer going off at an airport in the Sierra foothills.

It is eminently possible to go down in a forest without anyone noticing, especially if you ran out of fuel and had no fire. And there are some spots even on the East Coast that are very remote. God help you if you go down in the mountains of eastern Tennessee or on an uninhabited barrier island.
Click to expand...

How many times this year has an aircraft gone down in the lower 48 and it took days to find them?

Yes I fly all over the mountains of eastern TN all the time and every time I fly over them I have FF.

No, ATC doesn't ignore ELTs. I investigated them as a controller and I've been asked on a few occasions to listen for an ELT on 121.5 while flying.

My local CAP still investigates 121.5 ELTs. Talked about it with them a few months ago when I gave the kids a presentation.

The odds of my engine failing, I'm not talking to ATC, no one on the ground saw me go down, I'm outside cell phone coverage, I'm still alive but yet incapacted to walk to the nearest town and all this without CAP finding me, is extremely remote. If I go down like that it'll be Steve Fossett style and it won't matter anyway because I'll be dead.

Having said all that, yeah at some point I'll upgrade to 406 but I just don't find a pressing need to right now based on the flying I do. If I lived in remote areas with no ATC or cell coverage, then I'd get one. Until then, I'll comply with the regs and keep my 121.5 ELT. Based on the vote, it seems that plenty of us are for the time being.
 
Velocity173 said:
How many times this year has an aircraft gone down in the lower 48 and it took days to find them?
Click to expand...

Well, let's see. I live in the Lower 48, and I work emergency services as aircrew for CAP.

The last one we had right here was back in November, where a 140 with a pilot known to like flying NORDO very low to the ground hit power lines, just outside Gilroy, CA. The wreckage and bodies were found about 24 hours later. ELTs underneath power lines are VERY difficult to isolate and the wreckage was eventually found by the power interruption.

At about the same time, we had a 210 go down within spitting distance of I-580, in a CFIT accident in IMC. None of the neighbors knew he was there. Fortunately, his ELT went off, something that frequently doesn't happen in CFIT accidents.

The most recent "save" with a really good ELT signal and a pilot who did absolutely everything right, and went down a few miles from Mt. Whitney, and still had to overnight up there. While that one was short of 24 hours, it wasn't by much, and it could have easily been several days if the pilot wasn't as careful as he was. The real big one was that he had someone on the ground ready to call AFRCC if he was late, and it happened in an unusually timely fashion.

So, it's not nearly as remote a possibility as you think. Those are just examples that involved aircrews I know, and all of them are in the Lower 48, two in urban environments.
 
When my old ELT went out, I bought a really old ELT that has D cell batteries that are good until 2019 and a PLB.
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, let's see. I live in the Lower 48, and I work emergency services as aircrew for CAP.

The last one we had right here was back in November, where a 140 with a pilot known to like flying NORDO very low to the ground hit power lines, just outside Gilroy, CA. The wreckage and bodies were found about 24 hours later. ELTs underneath power lines are VERY difficult to isolate and the wreckage was eventually found by the power interruption.

At about the same time, we had a 210 go down within spitting distance of I-580, in a CFIT accident in IMC. None of the neighbors knew he was there. Fortunately, his ELT went off, something that frequently doesn't happen in CFIT accidents.

The most recent "save" with a really good ELT signal and a pilot who did absolutely everything right, and went down a few miles from Mt. Whitney, and still had to overnight up there. While that one was short of 24 hours, it wasn't by much, and it could have easily been several days if the pilot wasn't as careful as he was. The real big one was that he had someone on the ground ready to call AFRCC if he was late, and it happened in an unusually timely fashion.

So, it's not nearly as remote a possibility as you think. Those are just examples that involved aircrews I know, and all of them are in the Lower 48, two in urban environments.
Click to expand...

Those are just crashes you worked. We could debate that crashes themselves happen "routinely" but my question was how many happen in the lower 48 where the occupants have to use survival skills? Not many, especially out east. You got the little girl who walked through the woods in the Seneca crash way back in January but that's not a common occurance around the country.

With the amount of aircraft flying GA on a daily basis, they just aren't dropping like flys everyday and disappearing in the woods simply because the aircraft didn't have a 406.
 
Velocity173 said:
How many times this year has an aircraft gone down in the lower 48 and it took days to find them?
Click to expand...
It happens. Much of the western US is a big, rugged, remote place. In 2007 a retired airline pilot took off from Aurora Oregon in his brand-new Sport Cub, and neither he nor his bright-yellow airplane have been seen since. Then there was Steve Fossett ...

I do a lot of flying between Washington State and Arizona. Some of that route doesn't even have radar coverage below oxygen altitudes. I want the guys looking for me to have all the help they can get.
 
Pilawt said:
It happens. Much of the western US is a big, rugged, remote place. In 2007 a retired airline pilot took off from Aurora Oregon in his brand-new Sport Cub, and neither he nor his bright-yellow airplane have been seen since. Then there was Steve Fossett ...

I do a lot of flying between Washington State and Arizona. Some of that route doesn't even have radar coverage below oxygen altitudes. I want the guys looking for me to have all the help they can get.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and if I flew in that area I'd equip with a 406. I configure my aircraft based on the environment I fly in. Then again, I flew nonstop from CA to TX and had FF the entire way.

It's like comparing someone who drives a vehicle in AK to one in FL. I suspect the type vehicle and what's carried in them are like night and day.

As I said, for me flying on the east coast, with FF on every X-country I've done this year and the vast majority of the time gliding distance to populated areas, I don't see the need in 406.

I've got a friend who flys HH-60s in the CG who has tried to convince me to at least get a PLB. Perhaps that might be something to ask for this Christmas.
 
Velocity173 said:
Exactly, and if I flew in that area I'd equip with a 406. I configure my aircraft based on the environment I fly in. Then again, I flew nonstop from CA to TX and had FF the entire way.

It's like comparing someone who drives a vehicle in AK to one in FL. I suspect the type vehicle and what's carried in them are like night and day.

As I said, for me flying on the east coast, with FF on every X-country I've done this year and the vast majority of the time gliding distance to populated areas, I don't see the need in 406.

I've got a friend who flys HH-60s in the CG who has tried to convince me to at least get a PLB. Perhaps that might be something to ask for this Christmas.
Click to expand...

So now the Western US isn't in the Lower 48?

You said it was rare. Neither of us has the statistics, but the recent experience here -- in the Lower 48 and mostly not in very remote environments and with radar coverage -- says it's not that rare to have trouble locating a crash longer than you say.

A 406 isn't a panacea either. It's better, but there are lots of ways for an ELT to fail to go off, especially if the crash happens without warning (e.g., CFIT). 406s don't do too well in fires, for instance, or when the aircraft comes to rest inverted or under trees. 121.5s at least broadcast continuously. 406s do so (beyond the collocated 121.5 signal) once per minute. If the device doesn't last a minute, you may be screwed.
 
MAKG1 said:
So now the Western US isn't in the Lower 48?

You said it was rare. Neither of us has the statistics, but the recent experience here -- in the Lower 48 and mostly not in very remote environments and with radar coverage -- says it's not that rare to have trouble locating a crash longer than you say.

A 406 isn't a panacea either. It's better, but there are lots of ways for an ELT to fail to go off, especially if the crash happens without warning (e.g., CFIT). 406s don't do too well in fires, for instance, or when the aircraft comes to rest inverted or under trees. 121.5s at least broadcast continuously. 406s do so (beyond the collocated 121.5 signal) once per minute. If the device doesn't last a minute, you may be screwed.
Click to expand...

Well without stats that you can provide me with, I'll go with odds. And the odds are that a 406 wouldn't be of value for my flying. I fly EMS in remote areas all over the TN / NC mountains and in the rare case my company phone doesn't have a signal, my personal phone does. If I can't call out, then it's because I'm dead. In that case, like Steve Fossett, it won't matter.

I definitely don't consider my self some kind of risk taker and like 2020 said, I don't fault those who use a 406 or PLB based on their location. Like in the military, I configure my aircraft based on my environment.

If I had the finances I suppose I'd have an SR22 with 406, ADS-B, XM weather and 3 iPads running FF. I don't have the money and I don't think it's dangerous to fly a SE piston aircraft that's not equipped like that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top