Flying Over Canada, But Not Landing In Canada

[jimmyjack]

I understand there is a laundry list of items and requirements for a USA-registered plane to land in Canada, but what are the requirements for, say, taking off from NE Pennsylvania and flying over Lake Erie & Canada, direct to the upper peninsula of Michigan?

For a proposed flight, this would cut my commute in about half.

 

[JoeSelch]

Required:
- Be on an active flight plan.
- Be in contact with ATC prior to crossing the border.
- Have an ATC-assigned transponder code.

Follow Canada's rules when in Canadian airspace.

Nice to have: passport, in case you land out

 

[AcroBoy]

Just did this twice in the last few days- ifr was no different except some ATC phraseology.

 

[jimmyjack]

Required:
- Be on an active flight plan.
- Be in contact with ATC prior to crossing the border.
- Have an ATC-assigned transponder code.

Follow Canada's rules when in Canadian airspace.

Nice to have: passport, in case you land out

Is.....is that it? I really thought the requirements would be the same as if you were landing there.

Where can I look this up? It's a goofy thing to Google....

 

[LDJones]

Is.....is that it? I really thought the requirements would be the same as if you were landing there.

Where can I look this up? It's a goofy thing to Google....

It's that easy. Done it many times. Other than hearing some unique phrases or accents, you'll find it not much different than flight following here. Go for it.

 

[frfly172]

It's that easy,do it all the time. Keep a passport handy in case you have to land in Canada.

 

[EdFred]

Yep. It's that easy. I file IFR when I do it, even if CAVU because it's just my flight plan is all in one place.

Where in the UP?

 

[jimmyjack]

Yep. It's that easy. I file IFR when I do it, even if CAVU because it's just my flight plan is all in one place.

Where in the UP?

Not really the UP, just used it for clarification. Girlfriend loves Frankenmuth, so 66G.

 

[murphey]

Is.....is that it? I really thought the requirements would be the same as if you were landing there.

Where can I look this up? It's a goofy thing to Google....

You can always contact NavCanada and ask for specifics. No big deal.

navcanada.ca

 

[James331]

What they said, not a big deal or really a event at all.

 

[gprellwitz]

I've done in IFR. No big deal. Next time will be VFR. Does the flight plan need to be the new ICAO format? If not, is it standard VFR or a DVFR flight plan?

 

[James331]

I've done in IFR. No big deal. Next time will be VFR. Does the flight plan need to be the new ICAO format? If not, is it standard VFR or a DVFR flight plan?

Not sure what you use for flight planning, it's easier to just update your stuff and file a ICAO for everything nowadays, what I've been doing for a while, less stuff to think about.

 

[MIFlyer]

Quick question, if you are flying over Canada, land to take on fuel (assume full service), but no one leaves the airplane, have you "entered" Canada and then have to do customs coming back into USA?

think flying from Seattle to Alaska, but stopping in Bella Bella, BC for fuel.

 

[dans2992]

Unfortunately, yes, I believe you'd be considered to have entered Canada.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JoeSelch]

Quick question, if you are flying over Canada, land to take on fuel (assume full service), but no one leaves the airplane, have you "entered" Canada and then have to do customs coming back into USA?

think flying from Seattle to Alaska, but stopping in Bella Bella, BC for fuel.

If you drive through Canada but don't get out of your car ...

 

[gms5002]

You don't need the radio station license if you don't land?

 

[NoHeat]

You don't need the radio station license if you don't land?

Rephrase that question: You can't get ramped if you don't land?

What I wonder is how long it has been since anybody has been asked for a radio license, when they did land.

 

[sourdough44]

Rephrase that question: You can't get ramped if you don't land?

What I wonder is how long it has been since anybody has been asked for a radio license, when they did land.

Quiet there, you might give them ideas. The 'Customs' people generally aren't ones to care about a 'radio license'. They have the same litany of questions as the highway booths.

If you were to get the equivalent of a Canadian FAA 'ramp check' they may ask. I just think there are biggie fish to fry than worrying about the radio license, it's a personal thing.

 

[James331]

Rephrase that question: You can't get ramped if you don't land?

What I wonder is how long it has been since anybody has been asked for a radio license, when they did land.

Never seen a FAA dude ramping people in Canada anywho.

 

[SeamusTheHound]

Does NavCanada charge for ATC services to GA airplanes on a VFR or IFR flight Plan that traverses Canadian airspace but doesn’t land in Canada?

If so, how do they collect the fees?

Thanks!

 

[Catalo]

Does NavCanada charge for ATC services to GA airplanes on a VFR or IFR flight Plan that traverses Canadian airspace but doesn’t land in Canada?

If so, how do they collect the fees?

Thanks!

Yes they do. I believe they get the tail number and send a bill to the registered owner of the plane

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[azure]

Does NavCanada charge for ATC services to GA airplanes on a VFR or IFR flight Plan that traverses Canadian airspace but doesn’t land in Canada?

If so, how do they collect the fees?

Thanks!

It may depend on where in their airspace you fly, but I have done it many times, even talked to Toronto Approach, and was never charged a fee. But the farthest north I ever flew was over London, ON, en route to upstate NY. Most of my crossings were either en route from MI to the Lake Erie islands, or direct from SE MI over Buffalo, NY to VT.

 

[chemgeek]

FYI, if you are BasicMed, Canada does not recognize that as a valid medical certificate.

 

[EdFred]

I've never been charged a fee when Crossing near Toronto from Michigan to the east coast either.

 

[GRG55]

Is.....is that it? I really thought the requirements would be the same as if you were landing there.

Where can I look this up? It's a goofy thing to Google....

If it was the other way around (Canadian aircraft transiting over US airspace) the rules the USA applies to enter its airspace are just as though the plane was landing in the USA. Last year the USA started applying this rule even to passengers on scheduled commercial airline routes that cross US airspace but do not intend to land (e.g. Canadian flights into Toronto from the west). The Canadians are a hell lot more relaxed about that sort of thing. At least for now. Even when you land at most Canadian Ports of Entry they don't bother to come out and meet you at the airplane - a phone call to their Customs toll free number is all that is usually needed. Note Katamarino's Alaska flight thread about his recent entry at Vancouver International (the Customs decal he refers to is a USA Customs and Border Protection requirement, available through the "decal and transponder online procurement system - dtops" as is the e-APIS filing)

...The next day brought the flight to Canada. It was fairly straightforward. I had to buy a "customs decal" for $28 in advance to place on the airplane (seems to have no other purpose than a tax), and then file an e-apis declaration online with the US CBP. Apart from that, it was just filing a VFR flight plan online, and calling the Canadians to let them know about the arrival. The flight was a short, less than 30 minute hop up to Vancouver International. On arrival I called customs again from the airplane, and they gave me the OK to continue; never even saw any body!

Quick question, if you are flying over Canada, land to take on fuel (assume full service), but no one leaves the airplane, have you "entered" Canada and then have to do customs coming back into USA?

think flying from Seattle to Alaska, but stopping in Bella Bella, BC for fuel.

You are entering the country, which means the full meal deal with US CPB (eAPIS filing, transponder code (Homeland Security rules) and a flight plan to exit) and notification of Canada Customs to enter.

You cannot go into Bella Coola directly as it is not a Port of Entry airport, so you should probably consider landing at Boundary Bay, Victoria or Abbotsford - all of which I would recommend over Vancouver International, which can be pretty busy with heavies and can create some serious departure delays for piston GA getting out of there.

 

[MD11Pilot]

Did it hundreds if not thousands of flights. Landing there is just like here as far as customs. What one airport customs officers "requires" and what another at another airport can be totally different. I.E. Open the door and go inside to do paperwork or wait in the aircraft. Other than that it is a non event. Even did many many flights with a sidearm and in an EMERGENCY there would have been a lot of Satellite Communications going on before touching down and I am sure the Mounties would have been there enforce, but we were briefed as were the Canadians as to who, what and why so there was protocols involved.

Best advice...be prepared to make an unscheduled landing in an emergency and don't be an ugly American when you touch down. Other than that, we are buddies...at our pay grade.

 

[James331]

Required:
- Be on an active flight plan.
- Be in contact with ATC prior to crossing the border.
- Have an ATC-assigned transponder code.

Follow Canada's rules when in Canadian airspace.

Nice to have: passport, in case you land out

That.

No biggie

In many ways Canada is really more like another state than another country.

I would carry the passport too just incase.

 

[n9144p]

I've cut the corner from Erie to Saginaw crossing just south and west of London dozens of times. IFR. No fees if not landing in Canada - excellent hand offs. Last time was Sunday - every transmission ended "Happy Canada Day"

 

[Pascal Forget]

April 2017 I purchased my airplane near Niagara falls Ontario. I couldn’t fly it back to Quebec via Toronto because of low ceilings, so I filed a flight plan over the phone with London FSS and went around Lake Ontario via the southern route over the USA. US ATC were courteous and the whole overflying another country was a non event. I never received any bill for that.

A few months later I flew from Montreal to Halifax, Nova Scotia while under a flight plan. I must have spent one hour overflying Maine from west to east while in contact with Boston Center. Once in the mountains, I was unable to climb above 3500 feet because of the ceilings so I lost contact with Boston center. Then I received a transmission from an Air Canada first officer who was at 33000 feet who relayed messages from Boston center and back for a minute or so. Nice! I never git a bill for that flight either.

 

[schmookeeg]

Dusting off this ancient thread as I may be doing this tomorrow -- it appears nothing has changed here. Are people actually filing and opening up VFR flight plans to achieve this? One rapscallion on the internet pointed out you need the plan filed but not opened, which is more my style, so curious if this has weight.

Thanks in advance for any anecdotes. Inbound weather looks snotty in Maine Tuesday

 

[dcat127]

I did it about a month ago. It takes maybe 2 minutes to file a vfr plan ...why wouldn't you?

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

That whole "discrete VFR transponder code" thing is no longer a requirement according to Salt Lake Center. I recently flew from Canada to Montana and back VFR. Both ways, right before crossing the border, I asked for my discrete VFR border crossing transponder code and both ways they told me that they don't require this anymore for VFR flights telling me to just keep 1200 on the squawk. Regarding "being in contact with ATC" - I'm unsure if this is still required. On my way to Montana I was with Winnipeg Center until about 100 miles north of the MT border and then I lost them. I tried contacting Salt Lake Center but couldn't get them. I called them from my cell phone in the air and they said I don't have to be in touch with them to cross but can get them around Havre if I wanted flight following. On the way back to Canada, I had flight following with Salt Lake Center until just north of Havre at which point they told me I'd lose them soon and they told me to contact Winnipeg Center about 50 miles from my destination, which was a good 150 miles into Canada already. Not sure if this is because coverage is so bad here in my area though. You definitely need an International (ICAO) VFR ACTIVE flight plan. Also, if you intend to land, there are a few more requirements but since that's not what you're planning, I won't get into details.

 

[schmookeeg]

I did it about a month ago. It takes maybe 2 minutes to file a vfr plan ...why wouldn't you?

Filling doesn't bother me, I'll file a thousand plans if they want me to. Opening one, though... because I generally don't fly with an intended destination, just a direction/whim, and I hate "explaining" why I'm landing X when I filed Y. To say nothing of needing to remember to close it out when I land in blight, ohio for some cheap 100LL and have no cell service and now it's a damned chore I need to attend to.

...but sounds like that's what I need to do, so I'm gonna file somthing like maine to illinois and open it up if we need to fly north.

 

[bflynn]

Unfortunately, yes, I believe you'd be considered to have entered Canada.

For fueling where you do not get out, you must report the arrival of the aircraft to CBSA, but you do not have go through the customs process. You can report the arrival via telephone to the CBSA at that airport (make sure they're open and your telephone works in Canada) or via a standard form, but I don't know which one or the handling of it. I don't think you need ArriveCan since you're not entering the country.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

For fueling where you do not get out, you must report the arrival of the aircraft to CBSA, but you do not have go through the customs process. You can report the arrival via telephone to the CBSA at that airport (make sure they're open and your telephone works in Canada) or via a standard form, but I don't know which one or the handling of it. I don't think you need ArriveCan since you're not entering the country.

Do you have a link to the legislative text regarding this? It doesn’t seem accurate to me. As far as I know, if you land, even if it’s just to refuel, you have “entered” the country and all rules apply as if you are staying in the country, which means, in addition to the above requirements, you must call customs prior to departure in the US, fill out ArriveCAN (this requirement will soon be dropped), and then call again upon landing. They may or may not meet you at the plane. For me it’s been 50/50 so far regarding being cleared by phone vs. being met at the plane. Also, if you land in Canada, all additional customs requirements to go back to the U.S. apply.

 

[WDD]

I assume flying through still requires a third class medical vs basic med

 

[bflynn]

Do you have a link to the legislative text regarding this? It doesn’t seem accurate to me. As far as I know, if you land, even if it’s just to refuel, you have “entered” the country and all rules apply as if you are staying in the country, which means, in addition to the above requirements, you must call customs prior to departure in the US, fill out ArriveCAN (this requirement will soon be dropped), and then call again upon landing. They may or may not meet you at the plane. For me it’s been 50/50 so far regarding being cleared by phone vs. being met at the plane. Also, if you land in Canada, all additional customs requirements to go back to the U.S. apply.

Memorandum D2-5-1 - Charter Access to Airports (cbsa-asfc.gc.ca)

You can also call and discuss.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

“This memorandum outlines the Canada Border Services Agency guidelines and conditions under which airlines or owners of commercial aircraft may operate international charter service, including transborder service for remuneration or hire into authorized airports of entry.”

It doesn’t cover private aircraft owners I believe. I know in the States there are also two separate rules for private operators vs. commercial operators.

 

[Palmpilot]

I assume flying through still requires a third class medical vs basic med

I think you're right. I think you have to comply with Canadian rules whenever you are in their airspace.

Which leads me to wonder if it's possible for citizens of other countries to get a Canadian 4th-class medical certificate.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

Which leads me to wonder if it's possible for citizens of other countries to get a Canadian 4th-class medical certificate.

I wouldn’t see why not. I have a US medical and Canadian medical and I’m neither US nor Canadian citizen.