Shutting Engine OFF in Flight

Yes; we would shut it down in a Cessna 150, back in the day, using it as a poor man's glider a few times. Also intentionally running the tip tanks dry in another single. Just a couple times in a 172.
 
Sundancer said:
Yes; we would shut it down in a Cessna 150, back in the day, using it as a poor man's glider a few times. Also intentionally running the tip tanks dry in another single. Just a couple times in a 172.
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I had a PPL student who already had his sailplane rating - he spoke of doing that, catching thermals which could provide a surprising amount of 'up time' for even a 152 ... never tried it myself, but would if I ever got back into GA.
 
Some of the PA46 instructors will shut the turbine models down in flight to demonstrate air starts. This has caused some expensive hot starts. More than one accident was caused from demonstrating a turbine engine out with a feathered and idling engine. It takes a bit of time to get them spinning particularly if you didn't remember to bring the prop back out of feather.
 
Probably shut the Rotax in my FD CTSW off 20-30 times in the pattern and executed a dead-stick landing. I have played with speeds to stop the prop and to let it turn over a blade at a time. With the 2.43:1 gear box the prop often turns a blade at a time at slower air speeds; ka chunk, ka chunk, ka chunk.
I've landed dead-stick with cross-winds a few times - not a big deal.
There is no mixture control on my Rotax so shutting down is always by the key. I turn it to one mag for a few seconds to let the engine slow down a bit - never have gotten quite used to the slamming stop in a Rotax.
One time I took the plane to 10,000 feet, shut the engine off and glided to 4,000 feet at book best glide to verify the glide ratio, which I determined was 8.9:1, much worse than I'd expected but a good number to know.
On the LD/Max flight and a couple of times in the pattern I've done a key air start. I have not tried to air start it by diving and turning the propeller.
The OP seems to to imply a more convention engine, such as a Continental or Lycoming. I have shut the Lycoming down in the air only as a part of ME training and checkride. On one occasion, the battery was too weak for the restart and we did not dive the twin to restart it; we limped home on one engine, which makes one's leg tired. :)
I did mag checks in the air in my T210. If the engine dies on one mag, one wants to be sure to pull the throttle before going to a good mag, otherwise one can build up the gas and get a backfire (just like you get when one inadvertently goes to "off" when checking mags on the ground).
I feel very comfortable shutting the Rotax down in flight, though I'm not sure how I'd feel about doing a very long glide where the engine got thoroughly cold-soaked. I restarted it on my LD/Max attempt at 4,000 feet so I'd have some time to fiddle with it if needed. Part of the deal there is it takes one hand to turn the key and one to manipulate the "choke" (actually an enricher) which means you'd want the plane trimmed pretty well to fly hand's off. And, in a really cold Rotax, sometimes you end up doing things with the throttle to start it. If the "choke" handle doesn't stay where you put it by friction then you suddenly need 3-4 hands, which might be more hands than I would like to be employing in a glide.
 
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I was flying the Pipistrel Virus motor glider and it was of course common to shut the Rotax 912 down. The Apollo Fox also had a pretty decent engine out glide. You learn fast when your instructor is a professional glider instructor:


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Back in my NAVY days, I remember they used to feather the #4 engine on the P-3 Orion. #4 didn't have a generator, they feathered to save fuel on long missions.
 
AKBill said:
Back in my NAVY days, I remember they used to feather the #4 engine on the P-3 Orion. #4 didn't have a generator, they feathered to save fuel on long missions.
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They still do, although the P-3s are on their way out the door: I believe the last deployment is either complete or about to be. Don't think they will be doing that in the P-8s.
 
I learned to fly in the 50s in a Champ. My instructor would give me an emergency landing by shutting off the fuel. Since I had my hand on the throttle it would indeed come as a surprise. He never let the prop stop windmilling and as I remember would turn the fuel on before we got much below 50'. In the 50's there was a LOT of open space in the west end of the San Fernando Valley to practice. :)
 
A B747 can be ferried with one engine inop.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
KC-10 can be ferried with one inop as well. I believe it has only been done once.
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That's amazing considering it only has three engines. That said, the military has all sorts of special rules I believe?? Do you know if that holds true for the DC-10?
 
I will admit the first time that my ME CFI completely shutdown an engine in flight and then had me feather it that I was a bit unnerved looking at those motionless prop blades but by the time I did it for my checkride it was no big deal... almost. I was still a bit nervous but it restarted and all was well and I got my ME.

Being able to maintain directional control & altitude while doing all of the procedures to both secure the engine after it "fails" and then later restart it really does add to your confidence level. I actually enjoyed it.
 
My guess is that the OP was talking to a DA that didn't know the difference from an engine at idle and one that was really shut off.
 
AKBill said:
Talked with a co worker this week about flying. He told me he took a flight with a neighbor, local site seeing. He said he was not happy when the pilot shut the engine off...

How many of you have internally shut the engine off in flight?

I personally have never shut the engine off in flight. The thought has never crossed my mind.

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Enjoy! I made this video in the RV-12 I built. I was the #2 customer built RV-12 to fly and we were doing some testing and comparison on glide ratios, etc. 78,000 views on my video so far. :D

https://youtu.be/_xZmsxEewik

Would I shut the engine off with someone else in the plane? :no:
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Yes. Shutdown/feather and restart are part of the ME PTS.
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Okay, I have a question. On a twin, in flight, engine stopped. Can you unreached the prop and use the air to restart it? I realize the drag will be really bad, but can it be done?
 
Geico266 said:
Okay, I have a question. On a twin, in flight, engine stopped. Can you unreached the prop and use the air to restart it? I realize the drag will be really bad, but can it be done?
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No. Gotta use the starter. You can't get it out of feather until you start turning it - at least on the ones I've flown.
 
Geico266 said:
Okay, I have a question. On a twin, in flight, engine stopped. Can you unreached the prop and use the air to restart it? I realize the drag will be really bad, but can it be done?
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Not unless it has unfeathering accumulators. They store oil pressure to move the blades out of feather.
 
I did it in my 180C on my left tank.. It really wasn't a big deal..

Here is what happened:

- I flew a route at 9,500' and near several airports (felt better that way)

- I have simulated it on the ground by shutting off the fuel and was comfortable with it restarting..

- I wanted to do it so if it happened in flight and wanted to know what to expect (it shouldn't happen with proper planning but people make mistakes)

- with about 8-10 gallons in the right tank I left it on the left tank until the fuel gage read zero.. It hovered around zero for about 20 minutes

- when it ran out of fuel on the left side it was just like I pulled the throttle and but it was very quiet

- I didn't allow the prop to stop but just calmly reduced throttle to idle, switched tanks, and turned fuel pump on.. It started right up with no issue at all.


I mainly wanted to do this so I would know what exactly to expect and it is different that the instructor pulling the throttle back..


My only concern is how hard is in on the engine ect.. (I can't see it being any different than pulling the mixture to kill the engine though)

I thought I remember that it was common practice sometime in the past?
 
I'm guessing the coworker could be confused about the meaning of "shut down". Did he give any further details?
 
I don't recall ever shutting down a single in flight, I have done it several times in a twin during training and checkrides. Not a huge deal at altitude, I wouldn't recommend it below 3000 ft, you could very well go from a simulated emergency to a real one! :eek: Without time to restart the other engine. :dunno:
 
champ driver said:
My guess is that the OP was talking to a DA that didn't know the difference from an engine at idle and one that was really shut off.
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That's possible, didn't ask him a lot of questions. I just told him I didn't think that was to smart. If something goes south, you could find yourself in a real emergency.

My co worker is on a 2 week on 2 week schedule. I'll ask a few more questions the next time I see him.
 
Kritchlow said:
That's amazing considering it only has three engines. That said, the military has all sorts of special rules I believe?? Do you know if that holds true for the DC-10?
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The 727, L-1011 and DC-10 all have procedures for two-engine ferries. No passengers, light loads, temp, rwy length and climb restricted of course.
 
Mike I said:
The 727, L-1011 and DC-10 all have procedures for two-engine ferries. No passengers, light loads, temp, rwy length and climb restricted of course.
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Back when I worked for an airline flying the L-1011, we ferried a few on two engines. I do not recall the complete process but I do recall that we pulled the fan blades from the inop engine and plugged the intake. We also had to borescope the other two engines.
 
I almost forgot the time I switched tanks on my 421B and went the wrong way on one on one and shut the engine down for a brief period, maybe 5 seconds.:mad2: My wife was convinced I was trying to kill us all!! :eek:
 
Geico266 said:
Okay, I have a question. On a twin, in flight, engine stopped. Can you unreached the prop and use the air to restart it? I realize the drag will be really bad, but can it be done?
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It depends. If the prop feathering mechanism if hydraulic (virtually all "modern" twins with flat engines are made this way) the airplane must have "accumulators" in order to unfeather without cranking the engine. My Baron has them and restarting after feathering is simple: Set the throttle about 1/4 open, push the prop control halfway forward and once the prop begins to rotate push the mixture up. You can watch the blades twist out of feather and shortly after it will begin to spin. If your airspeed is really low you might have to bump the starter to get past the first compression hump but that's it.

Some round engines and a few older flat engines use an electric motor to feather and unfeather. With that you just hit a button or flip a switch.

But with a hydraulic prop sans accumulators you have to use the starter and it can be difficult to start a feathered engine because the prop generates a lot of resistance to rotation. I did my multi training in a Dutchess which didn't have them and the first time I feathered one, with the instructor we had descended about 3000 ft before it finally began to rotate (had me a bit worried). The instructor insisted that we keep the airspeed high because he thought the engine would start easier when going fast but I'm not sure that's correct.
 
I shut the engine off on Comanche 250 on 3500' and also feather prop .
 
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Kritchlow said:
A B747 can be ferried with one engine inop.
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Like this? :)

1957557.jpg
 
AKBill said:
Talked with a co worker this week about flying. He told me he took a flight with a neighbor, local site seeing. He said he was not happy when the pilot shut the engine off...

How many of you have internally shut the engine off in flight?

I personally have never shut the engine off in flight. The thought has never crossed my mind.

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I shut the engine down each and every time I fly. Going cross country and I am near distinction, maybe 30 miles out from the airport I usually shut down and glide the remaining distance. But that is because I fly a motor glider with a 30:1 glide ratio. It is so muck fun to do. Go to : www.airusa.us and see the gliders there. I hardly ever land with the engine running.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Awesome!

I would fly with the older guy anytime. Engines are so overrated!! :D
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That old guy needs to get his altimeter fixed, I wonder what else in that airplane he has to keep tapping to to get to work??
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Why?

Are you sure that your altimeter doesn't stick a little when you don't have the vibration from the engine to help it move?
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If it did and I knew about it, it would go into the shop. It's the little stuff that can kill you, especially the acceptance of the little stuff.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Only in the sim. In the T-1 we brought the power back to idle to simulate. I know the 4 engine guys(RC-135, KC-135) do the same. B-52 can fly with one engine inoperative and it is not an abnormal procedure.
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Other than looking at the engine instruments, do you even notice it when one engine on a B52 isn't working?
 
Saw Bob Hoover shut down both engines on his Commander, did a few rolls on downwind, flew a normal pattern, landed and rolled to a stop at show center. Impressive.
 
gismo said:
It depends. If the prop feathering mechanism if hydraulic (virtually all "modern" twins with flat engines are made this way) the airplane must have "accumulators" in order to unfeather without cranking the engine. My Baron has them and restarting after feathering is simple: Set the throttle about 1/4 open, push the prop control halfway forward and once the prop begins to rotate push the mixture up. You can watch the blades twist out of feather and shortly after it will begin to spin. If your airspeed is really low you might have to bump the starter to get past the first compression hump but that's it..
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Been about 35 years since I've instructed ME students but I'm sure the Cessna 310s the school used would come out of feather w/ the accumulators as described above. I remember a few times we had to dive a bit to get it to come out of feather, or bump the starter. Also was fun to do steep turns with one feathered. It can be done.
 
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