Is customer service dead?

Bill

Bill

Touchdown! Greaser!
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This tags along with Nick's criminal thread, and echos some of the statements there.

Last fall, I was searching for a quick, fun little gas sipper car, and chose the Ford Focus ST. Using my FiL's A plan, I bought the car for $5k less than similar competitor models, and it is really a hoot to drive for an inexpensive car.

The A/C worked fine last fall, but wasn't cooling now, so I took it in yesterday. Dealer calls in the afternoon, and says it's ready to go. I asked what they did, and he said nothing! Nothing? Yup, he said, the mechanic turned on the A/C (in the shaded garage, at 7am in the morning) and put his hands in front of the vent and thought it was cooling fine. I asked if they put it on the gauges to check the pressures, etc., and he said no, Ford would not pay for that. I asked him why not, and he said Ford only pays for further tests if the mechanic concurs with the customer complaint, and the mechanic thought it was cooling fine. I complained further, but I could tell by the service writers attitude that he had absolutely no interest in customer satisfaction, helping me with my problem, and told me they closed shortly, have a good day.

So, I drove home with sweaty boys since the A/C still didn't work worth a hoot.

I'm going to try the dealer again to have this looked at, but after this experience it is no wonder Ford is in the crapper and sinking fast. The A plan discounts are very nice, and my past two Ford products have been great, but this experience is just disgusting.

If they don't resolve (and improve their customer satisfaction), this will be my last Ford. I try like hell to support my brother American families, and support USA business, but sometimes companies deserve what they get.
 
Bill, on our 05 Durango the AC went out after 2 months. in 120* heat. The Dealer told me: "Yea, we know about that problem, but they don't have a fix for it yet."
I don't recall that being on the window sticker when i bought it. I think it all boils down to the crappy quality of workmanship we are all experiencing now.
 
Bill Jennings said:
If they don't resolve (and improve their customer satisfaction), this will be my last Ford. I try like hell to support my brother American families, and support USA business, but sometimes companies deserve what they get.
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It's this kind of treatment from one of our local Ford dealers, as well as from Ford itself during many phone calls, that has insured that I will never buy another Ford product. I owned two Ford trucks prior to going with Toyota.
 
Bill,

It's the dealer. Note the "Ford will pay for extra tests if..." They would have been paid if they concurred - they chose not to concur. Usually a dealer grubs for every dollar they can. My guess is they make less money on warranty work than they do on other work & the shop was busy.

Take it to another dealer. Or take it back at 4:00 in the afternoon and insist that they have someone look at it on the spot.

I've rented a Focus recently. The air blows COLD - to the point where you have to turn up the temp control at 7 AM/7 PM.

I won't by Chevy/GM ever again. 3 tranny failures, one torque converter in the first 10,000 miles - they tried to claim the third was out of warranty, got the zone office involved and threatened to invoke the lemon law (note: if they find nothing wrong, in many states it doesn't count for lemon law purposes). The dealer managed to get 3 parking tickets on the car, they never paid, I found out about it when I went to renew the registration a couple of months later and found it "blocked" until I paid. Set me back more money.

First rule: once warranty ends, do NOT use the dealer. I've heard more horror stories about car dealers than I have about avionics shops.

I, too, have bought foreign after my GM experiences, but two of three Nissan dealers I've used (one in Virginia, one in Texas, and both owned by companies that own dealers for other brands) either caused more problems with the car, or outright tried to rip me off. Fortunately, the cars have had much fewer maintenance problems than the US brands.
 
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My F150 is out of warranty and I never go to the dealer for anything, anymore...

It's likely that my next truck will be a Tundra.
 
In 2004, I bought my current Jetta TDi diesel. About 38,000 into driving it, I lost nearly all power. I heard a clinking sound as the engine revved but power was there, then as I was going down the road toward the dealer (I cleared myself with dispatch just to get it done right then). Two miles down, I heard a pop and the power was gone.

I went on down to the dealer. They did not get to it until the next afternoon. I'm amazed at the amount of business these folks get and are always backed up but they never hire the required staff to stay on top of the work. They suspect it's the turbine. Doh! I'd never flown a turbocharged aircraft but I was more than familiar with how one operates. However, they were not going to verify it until I proved all of the oil changes.

Being the cheapskate I am, I do all my own oil changes. I did take it to Express a couple times in a pinch but brought my own synthetic required by VW. I had to show them receipts from Express, my filter purchases, my bulk oil purchases... I figured I should be acquitted easily enough. All I had to show was 5k, 10k, 20k and 30k.

They saw a gap. I don't write things down. It's pretty simple. 30,000 rolls around, I change oil. Since it's a ten thousand mile cycle, it would happen again at 40k. Sounds familiar to airplane maintenance with exception of a law requiring written record, right?

I went off the deep end. They made the mistake of this accusation being near the showroom with the service waiting area being around the corner. "You accuse me of improper maintenance when you DON'T EVEN KNOW what the problem is?!??! (I continued) I suspect you have lousy customer service but that's based on mere observation. You've not even looked beyond the top of the engine!"

They agreed to do the repair but warned me it would be at my expense if oil was the problem. If they were hoping for my high recommendations for their dealership, they using FAA-restricted substances.

As it turned out, an impeller blade had broken off and jammed the turbine preventing it from spinning. Gee, that sounds like material defect to me!

So, the new procedure is to blame the customer for the cause before even determining the cause. Sure, that makes sense!
 
wsuffa said:
Bill,

It's the dealer. Note the "Ford will pay for extra tests if..." They would have been paid if they concurred - they chose not to concur. Usually a dealer grubs for every dollar they can. My guess is they make less money on warranty work than they do on other work & the shop was busy.
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Or more likely, they billed Ford for the tests, but didn't run them and pocketed the money.

I've rented a Focus recently. The air blows COLD - to the point where you have to turn up the temp control at 7 AM/7 PM.
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Last fall, in 95F weather, the inside of the car was a meat locker within 5 minutes of starting the car. Now, on a day in the low 80's, it won't achieve a comfortable temperature when running full blast for over 30min.

First rule: once warranty ends, do NOT use the dealer. I've heard more horror stories about car dealers than I have about avionics shops.
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That is great advice, and I follow it, dealers are for warranty service only.

I know it is the dealer, but like it or not, they are the face of Ford from the customers prospective. And yes, some of the foreign dealers are just as bad, but also as you said, their cars seem to require less work.
 
Bill, hit them with data.

Stick a thermometer in the dash vents. Record the temperature of the "cooled" air after the AC has been at full blast for say 15 min or so.

Also record the outside temperature. Their service manuals will tell them how cold the air should be.....

-Skip
 
KennyFlys said:
I went off the deep end. They made the mistake of this accusation being near the showroom with the service waiting area being around the corner. "You accuse me of improper maintenance when you DON'T EVEN KNOW what the problem is?!??! (I continued) I suspect you have lousy customer service but that's based on mere observation. You've not even looked beyond the top of the engine!"
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VW/Audi is in my never again file for vehicles, due to stuff like this (and the car spontaneously disintegtrating right after the warranty expired).
 
We have had excellent, excellent customer service from three dealers on the two BMWs we've owned since 1990 (1990-1997 and 1997-present). Doesn't matter whether it was warranty or not. Free loaner cars. Work done right.

It's sometimes a little more expensive than Joe's Garage, but not always. For example, recently the dealer quoted $990 for 4 tires and brakes on all 4 wheels. Took it to the local tire and brake franchise and they said they'd do the job for $950. Well, I was there, so I had them do it. And then I had to take it back twice before the wear sensors worked properly.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I know it is the dealer, but like it or not, they are the face of Ford from the customers prospective. And yes, some of the foreign dealers are just as bad, but also as you said, their cars seem to require less work.
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A friend of mine recently had a problem with a Dodge truck she bought. Dealer was giving her the runaround too. She called the consumer hotline for Dodge and raised holy he!!. She threatened to put a sign on the truck "Don't buy Dodge Products -Their service sucks!" if they didn't fix the problem. Next trip to the dealer they bent over backwards to get the problem fixed. One of the sales staff told her that her call to Dodge was what changed the attitude of the service dept.
 
Ken Ibold said:
We have had excellent, excellent customer service from three dealers on the two BMWs we've owned since 1990 (1990-1997 and 1997-present). Doesn't matter whether it was warranty or not. Free loaner cars. Work done right.
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My wife owns the other expensive German car, and when I take it in for work, the experience is TOTALLY different. Would you like a coffee, Mr Jennings? Would you like the morning paper or a WSJ? There is juice, donuts, and bagels on the table, help yourself! Here's the remote for the big screen, sit down, and if you need anything, tell the receptionist and she'll help you.

If I'm waiting, and the service is going to take longer, they give me a brand new car to take and bring back when they're done. When the service is complete, the service writer sits down and explains all of the tests/service/repairs completed, and the results of the tests. Then says, "If my explanation is not satisfactory, you can speak with the technician directly." etc etc etc

But, you pay for the service. I am almost beginning to think it is worth the high cost to be treated like a human.
 
I have heard horror stories about (almost) all of the Auto MFG's service departments. I guess I have been lucky. My '98 Chevy PU has never been into the shop. It has had the front suspension rebuilt (at 125K mi) new front brakes (at 98K mi) a new battery and Alt last year. My '95 Impala SS has had the exact same replacements. I do all of my own out of warranty work
 
ausrere said:
A friend of mine recently had a problem with a Dodge truck she bought. Dealer was giving her the runaround too. She called the consumer hotline for Dodge and raised holy he!!. She threatened to put a sign on the truck "Don't buy Dodge Products -Their service sucks!" if they didn't fix the problem. Next trip to the dealer they bent over backwards to get the problem fixed. One of the sales staff told her that her call to Dodge was what changed the attitude of the service dept.
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Didn't work for me when I owned my POS Durango. We went all the way to Detroit over the crappy service (at 3 different dealers), and it STILL was never a day without a mechanical issue. 4 years, 50,000 miles, 23 trips to the shop, including 9 repeat repairs and a new tranny. What a piece of crap. And I mean the company as well as the car.
 
Bill Jennings said:
But, you pay for the service. I am almost beginning to think it is worth the high cost to be treated like a human.
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With Beemers, ALL mx is covered for the first 4 years. All scheduled mx, including oil changes, is part of the purchase. And warranty is warranty.

When I was in Wisc with EAA, I took the Beemer in -- out of warranty and I didn't buy it there -- for some work and they gave me a new Z-4 to drive for a few days while they got the parts in. That's the way to do it.

And now that we have 90K+ miles and are looking for a replacement, there is really only one brand we're considering. The question has become what color the hard top convertible will be. And really, a huge part of the decision boiled down to the excellent customer experience we've gotten at every BMW dealer we've been to.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Didn't work for me when I owned my POS Durango.
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Maybe her success had something to do with her being an investigator for the AG's office consumer fraud division. :D But honestly, she swears she never brought that up.:dunno: :)
 
Bill Jennings said:
My wife owns the other expensive German car, and when I take it in for work, the experience is TOTALLY different. Would you like a coffee, Mr Jennings? Would you like the morning paper or a WSJ? There is juice, donuts, and bagels on the table, help yourself! Here's the remote for the big screen, sit down, and if you need anything, tell the receptionist and she'll help you.

If I'm waiting, and the service is going to take longer, they give me a brand new car to take and bring back when they're done. When the service is complete, the service writer sits down and explains all of the tests/service/repairs completed, and the results of the tests. Then says, "If my explanation is not satisfactory, you can speak with the technician directly." etc etc etc

But, you pay for the service. I am almost beginning to think it is worth the high cost to be treated like a human.
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I've had the same experience with my Acura. They have earned me as a customer for life; however for the recent timing belt / water pump work I went to a Honda-specific mechanic who does exceptional work, and I saved $400 from the dealer. So my wallet still talks, however I don't bat an eye at working with our dealer.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Well, I can't complain about the service department at my local Jeep dealer, but then, my Jeeps don't typically get worked on there.

The Wrangler has 125,000 miles on it, so I expect things to break now and then. Finally put new shocks on it a month or so ago. Will need a third set of tires later this year (probably before next winter sets in). Really ought to consider getting a tune-up. Factory plugs are probably a bit worn. Think that might help bas mileage? :D Naw, it still has the aerodynamics of a brick.

Wife's 2006 Commander is too new for problems. Hasn't had anything serious, other than going into the shop to have one of the backup obstacle sensors replaced. But that wasn't Jeep's fault, that came from backing into something and knocking it loose. Oh yeah, those are to warn you you're about to back into something. I'll have to talk to my wife about that sometime. :D :D
 
Bill Jennings said:
I'm going to try the dealer again to have this looked at, but after this experience it is no wonder Ford is in the crapper and sinking fast. The A plan discounts are very nice, and my past two Ford products have been great, but this experience is just disgusting.
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Ford dealers suck. I've never been to a good one, and I've been to a lot of 'em all over the country. Yes, "it's the dealer" but I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing bad stories about Ford (and some other dealers), and good things about BMW dealers. The attitude DOES come from the top.

If they don't resolve (and improve their customer satisfaction), this will be my last Ford. I try like hell to support my brother American families, and support USA business, but sometimes companies deserve what they get.
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And unfortunately, we, as consumers, deserve what we're getting (collectively) now as well. People don't pay for quality any more. They want cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap. Company A sells a quality widget for $10. Company B comes along with a widget that looks identical for $8.95. Everybody buys the $8.95 widget, company A goes out of business. Unfortunately, Company B is using cheap overseas labor and building a piece of junk lookalike that breaks. Where you would have been able to use Company A's $10 widget for a lifetime, Company B ends up making more money because their widget breaks and you have to buy another one.

So, if you're tired of this, next time you go shopping - Buy the Maglite instead of the cheapo plastic flashlight. Buy the BMW instead of the Ford. Buy the Craftsman instead of the Alltrade. Otherwise, it won't be long before all you can buy is crap.
 
Customer Service? What's that? Anymore, I steel myself to expect anti-service, and am pleasantly surprised when (if) I get it.

I do have to give my local Chevy dealer two cheers (not quite three) re: my S-10 Extreme Extended Cab's driveline problems. They didn't know about the service bulletin requiring the double-Cardin C-V joints' centering balls get greased at each oil change, so...after three rebuilds of the rear joint and re-re-balancing of both drive shafts (all beginning with new pinion bearings a little over a year previous, followed by a new set of bearings during this whole episode), I took the shafts out myself, had them balanced at a different shop and, after spending almost $1000.00, spent an additional $42.00 for a couple blocks that raised the transmission and center carrier bearing enough to align the drive train to the rear axle. IN OTHER WORDS, GENERAL MOTORS KNEW ABOUT THIS, AND DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. (yeah, I'm shouting:mad: ) The Extreme package lowers the whole vehicle about 1 to 2 inches, and GM did not ensure the drive train was aligned to reflect this problem. It was my own research online that dug this up. Totally unsatisfactory. But now that it's fixed (by me alone, thank you very much), I'm pleased to keep it.

Later,

Jim
 
I usually try to avoid CS bashing, mostly because I know just how hard it is to deal with the bad customers and then go to the good ones and treat them both fairly, but I have to admit, it gets really bad sometimes, and there are great examples here of it.

Its the way society is changing. I am more than half curious how Canada's customer service is. I know there are a lot of things that are making Canada look better and better every day.
 
Two words:

1. Toyota

2. Honda
 
Anthony said:
Two words:

1. Toyota

2. Honda
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I got a Honda, Jeep and BMW. The Jeep and Honda service and quality are about the same. FYI my Jeep is a pre-Daimler Chrysler product.

BMW CS blows them all away!

I really want to trade in the Jeep and get a BMW X3, I just am not relishing plopping down $40k for a new car.

hmmm I can get the Smart Car for $14k, take the $26k that I just saved, sell the Cherokee and buy something bigger and faster, hmmmm
 
FWIW, we REALLY liked the service we got from our Saturn dealer. I think it's even better than that we got from our Mercedes dealer.
 
Certain elements in America are driving this with the quest for higher profits and capital gains. The consumers suffer.

Witness, for example, Airtran's ongoing attempt to take over and destroy Midwest airlines. There is nothing stopping Airtran from entering Milwaukee (or Kansas City for that matter)... they just don't want the competition from Midwest's superior service. Hence, a hostile takeover bid.
 
Even BIGCO's CAN make customer service a priority.

When I go to a teller at my bank, my transaction always starts with "How are today, Mr. Andrews?" ends with "Is there anything else I can do for you, Mr. Andrews?" For a short while I thought "She saw that big bank balance I have." No such luck.

My total bank fee bill is $7 a month and that includes several trips to tellers and online banking with bill pay. They have a branch just a mile down the road.

Of course, now there's a battle for ownership of the bank. it was supposed to be bought by that famous name in one-stop suckage, Bank of America. I'm rooting for the Royal Bank of Scotland.

BOA counts on the frog in the boiling water technique. They're buying customers and most won't go through the effort of jumping ship. I'll be gone before the first "Welcome to the new experience*" letter hits my mailbox.

* = It will be a new experience for most to take it up the ....
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Ford dealers suck. I've never been to a good one, and I've been to a lot of 'em all over the country. Yes, "it's the dealer" but I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing bad stories about Ford (and some other dealers), and good things about BMW dealers. The attitude DOES come from the top.
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I don't absolutely agree with you on this one. My then new Mustang was making a nasty squeal when I put the window up/down. I went to my very local dealership (3 miles down the road). Sorry, best we can do is get you in two weeks from now... But I'm going on a vacation with an 8 hour drive this weekend... Sorry. So I went where I bought the thing, which is not particularly close. They took one look at it and said it was a safety issue, the side glass was under pressure and could break if they didn't fix it. They gave me an immediate loaner and told me they wanted me to leave it there for fixing, didn't want me to drive it. Had it fixed by the weekend, under warranty, and no charge for anything. They were worried about my health, literally, and the other dealer couldn't be bothered to do crap.

It really does vary, dealership to dealership.

Jim G
 
I have never owned anything but Toyotas, and the only problem I had they fixed without question. After decades of fighting bad workmanship, my formerly American-cars-first father switched to Toyotas. The only problem he had was when he flat neglected to ever change the oil in one of them. It still ran for >100,000 miles.

I sold or lost in divorce the early ones, but the two I have now still run great, a T100 with 160,000 HARD miles on it and a Camry with 113,000 miles on it (and the Camry still almost looks new).

Judy
 
Thank you for calling Pilots of America customer service. Your question is important to us. Please hold.
(1 minute passes)
*click*

Nah! Customer service is fine!
 
mikea said:
Even BIGCO's CAN make customer service a priority.

When I go to a teller at my bank, my transaction always starts with "How are today, Mr. Andrews?" ends with "Is there anything else I can do for you, Mr. Andrews?" For a short while I thought "She saw that big bank balance I have." No such luck.

My total bank fee bill is $7 a month and that includes several trips to tellers and online banking with bill pay. They have a branch just a mile down the road.

Of course, now there's a battle for ownership of the bank. it was supposed to be bought by that famous name in one-stop suckage, Bank of America. I'm rooting for the Royal Bank of Scotland.

BOA counts on the frog in the boiling water technique. They're buying customers and most won't go through the effort of jumping ship. I'll be gone before the first "Welcome to the new experience*" letter hits my mailbox.

* = It will be a new experience for most to take it up the ....
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there is a regional bank on the east coast where the CEO has established the slogan "No stupid fees", which along with their convenience, sets new standards for customer service. The customers love 'em. Wonder how long it'll be before the big guys try and take 'em out.
 
grattonja said:
It really does vary, dealership to dealership.
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Sure, it won't be universal - I'm guessing the person who owns the dealership in your story is a person of honesty and integrity and runs his business that way regardless of whether Ford cares or not. But, on average... :vomit:
 
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