First post - recommend me a no-frills school to do my PPL?

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topdog91

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topdog91
Hi all, first post. :)

Like all of you I guess, it's my dream to obtain a PPL. Here in Israel, it costs on average 75,000 shekels (around $20,000). Like many people, I want to do it in the USA where I understand it's more cost-effective due to competition and lower costs.

This year, the holidays here fall in such a way that there are only 9 working days in the 4.5 weeks between 11th September and 5th October. I smell an opportunity to come to the USA... :)

I have a couple of American friends who are jet pilots, they are enthusiastic for me to learn, and they put me in touch with a school just outside Los Angeles, CA. I spoke to the school, they sound very sleek and professional, but I think the prices are high, so I guess I'm going to have to look elsewhere. It's probably more a school for someone who can pay a premium. I'm the type of person who's a self-learner, and I don't need to be wrapped in cotton wool or spoonfed, but of course I need the support. Like every other chump I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I am scientifically-minded, and I aim to complete the PPL within 45 hours...

The estimate was based on 55 hours:

Aircraft Rental, 172SP $160 52.5 hours = $8,400
Redbird LD Simulator $400/mo Unlimited
Dual Flight Instruction $75 42.5 hours = $3,188
Ground Instruction $75 20.0 = $1,500
Chief Flight Instructor $85 5 hours = $425
Sub-Total Variable Costs: $14,313

Cessna Ground Instruction Kit $350
Pilot's Supplies; charts, etc. $200
Aviation Medical $150
Private Pilot Written Exam $150
Private Pilot Checkride Fee $600
Sub-total Fixed Costs: $1,450

Estimated Total Cost - 55 hours to completion $15,763

Finally, some questions:
1) Is the estimate on the high side as I suspect?
2) If so, what would be regarded as more realistic / down-to-earth prices, in terms of hourly rates, given that I'm not looking (or able) to pay top dollar to be pampered / go to a "premium" school.
3) Most things above are musts, but is there anything there I don't need or that is over-provisioned, not in the hourly rates, but in the number of hours? I would aim to start the course largely prepared for the ground exams, and I believe that the minimum number of hours with an instructor is 20 (not saying I won't need more but still...).
4) Can anyone recommend a school in the USA that fits this bill? Down-to-earth, no-frills, but safe, expert, professional, friendly tuition? (If it's located in an area with a good nightlife, that's a bonus... ;))

Thanks in advance for your input, hope to participate more here in the future!
 
Tailwheels in Lakeland Florida. They can also help you with the international aspects of your training the US.
 
An old school I used to work at at KPAE advertises 8500 tart to finish in minimum time. I told people to expect 11-12.5 and be happy when they finish below that though. There are always snags, and you have to include room and board in your estimates as well which could easily add up to more than 20k after everything is all said and done.
 
If you have reasonable attitude, and train intensively (as you are planning to do), it is not unreasonable to believe you might get the certificate in something less than 50 hours. I trained over a three-month period, and had about 41 hours in the logbook lots of my checkride.

You can certainly be those numbers easily, but will need to do business with a smaller operation, one which is not exclusively geared to constructing airline-track pilot candidates. There are many excellent flight schools which are smaller, independent, and less-costly, but you are not likely to be flying a late-model 172 SP with the glass cockpit.

There are some pretty good instructors and flight school operations on the board; you might see as some of them will chime-in.
 
What I would do(and what I did).

Buy the ground school media from one of the big players like Gleim, or Sporty's study and be ready for the written exam the day you hit the states. Schedule and take the written as soon as you feel ready.

Work with a airplane broker in the location you are going to be visiting. I recommend southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, or Texas due to good weather. Have the broker find you a cheap, small plane. Cessna 150, 152, Piper 140, 160, Tri-Pacer, Beech Sport close to $15,000. Have the best of the group checked out and buy it when you arrive. Train in that airplane exclusively, pay your fuel and maint as needed.

Hire your own CFI from the list of retired pilots. Do NOT hire a 20YO person, who may be training to move up to the pro pilot class. Find someone old and ready to work through it with you from start to finish. Get someone near the plane is best.

Once you are through your training, leave the plane with the broker you bought it from, and have him market it to sell when you return to Israel.

Of course, this is completely different than your strategic plan, but it's how I did it, and I was done in 46 hours in the logbook. That was in a tailwheel plane as well.

Examples but not brokered planes:

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1043430_Cessna+150+clean+Fastback+.html

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1042956_Tri-Pacer+PA-22.html

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1042498_1974+Cessna+150M.html

Oh, and I'm not a fan of simulators. Of course, they have a place, and it can be logged if used right, and still cheaper than the plane, but I just don't see that much value.
 
Washington International Flight Academy, located at KGAI just outside D.C., has trained a lot of your countrymen.
 
If you fly a lot and plan ahead, you can finish in 45 hours.

Find an accelerated program somewhere. That's the most likely way that you'll get it done in the shortest time possible.

I did my PPL in 4 months and had 43 hours at the checkride.

But since you are only looking at being here a month or so, you are going to have to find an accelerated program or an instructor who is willing to get it done quickly with you. Most regular CFIs aren't going to have the time to get a student through the PPL in 3-4 weeks.
 
Thanks all for the recommendations so far. It seems to be the case that I need a school that can issue an I-20 form in order to organize me with an M-1 visa - still trying to find out...

Other people have mentioned Canada as an option, any comments about that? Apparently the currency rates are favourable and the immigration is less painful.
 
topperdoggle said:
Thanks all for the recommendations so far. It seems to be the case that I need a school that can issue an I-20 form in order to organize me with an M-1 visa - still trying to find out...

Other people have mentioned Canada as an option, any comments about that? Apparently the currency rates are favourable and the immigration is less painful.
Click to expand...

No idea but it's probably more expensive there. Just check all the angles.
 
topperdoggle said:
Thanks all for the recommendations so far. It seems to be the case that I need a school that can issue an I-20 form in order to organize me with an M-1 visa - still trying to find out...

Other people have mentioned Canada as an option, any comments about that? Apparently the currency rates are favourable and the immigration is less painful.
Click to expand...

Wow, I just did a few seconds reading on the I-20 form, the SEVIS program, and all the federal oversight involved. My prev idea, even if you wanted to try it won't work at all. And yes - it appears you need to find a place with the system in place that can fill out, and get approved an I-20 application.

What a massive clusterfluck. But - there were serious violations of our visa program prior to the Twin Tower attack, so like all good do-nothings, they closed the barn door after the horses have fled. All I can say is 'sorry', and that this is going to cost a lot - maybe a whole lot more than my way of doing things.

http://www.ice.gov/sevis
 
What ya gonna do, don't let them grind you down... *sigh*
 
The schools at Deer Valley, Arizona KDVT seem to specialize in foreign students.
Plus it is almost always good weather to fly in AZ. Temperature is great Sept. To May.
 
Sure, I've investigated Deer Valley. The only school authorized to issue I-20 is Westwind, whose prices aren't transparent, and the "expected" all-in is $15K. I've asked for more info...
 
FL or AZ is where I would go, weather and cost should be better at both. You have the issue of needing the visa papers so that limits your school choices.

I would look all around Tuscon, look at Tuscon intl, Ryan, etc and Phoenix for a school able to deal with paperwork. There should be several places in FL that can do this as well, but I have no experience their.

Good luck,
 
I told the Phoenix (Deer Valley) story above. I checked SEVP in Tucson, and came up with Arizona Aero-Tech http://www.arizonaaerotech.com/. Interesting. Quoting $50 / hr instruction, and $130 / hr block rate for a 172L. Down-to-earth website, not pretentious. I want to speak to these people...

Also, I had always told myself I wanted to learn in at least a 172. Starting to consider a 152 instead, it's just that I'm being contrary, as much as I want to keep costs down, I also want to have a reasonably comfortable experience. Might I regret a 152?
 
Sadly, the school itself is a "frill", the lowest cost option is always an independent CFI with their own plane. Unfortunately, as a foreign citizen, this option is not available to you due to TSA issues. :(
 
The only thing that jumps out of that budget is using a 172SP for training. Well, and the Redbird. You don't need that for primary training; it's a glorified carnival ride.

That's much more airplane than you need for training. It has an autopilot and crappy KLN GPS, some have glass panels (though not at that price), and you should be able to find an older 172 for $40 less in the LA area. Shop around. I think there is at least one in Long Beach and another in Torrance. You should be able to train with no autopilot (really, it gets in the way for primary training), and no GPS. Around LA, you definitely need a transponder and two nav/comm radios is helpful (one will do).

42.5 hours is very low. The average is more than 60, and the rule of thumb is to double your age.
 
Yup, I actively don't want glass, and GPS / autopilot seem totally irrelevant. I can learn to use a GPS offline, I work in technology, I think I can cope... :)

And you seem to have pointed me in the right direction regarding my comment above about desiring to learn in a 172...
 
Now is a good time to warn you about 'package' or 'pre-paid' rates. While some economies of scale can be good bargains, there is always risk in pre-paid situations where you are not getting services at the time of payment. More than once, there has been a significant failure of a school which took money and folded later leaving people much poorer, and no training.

Exercise extreme caution here if there is a school that wants most or all of the training money up front to get you into the program.
 
Understood. The block rate above in Arizona Aero, is per $500 paid, which seems reasonable enough. I wonder if there's scope to negotiate the rates further...
 
topperdoggle said:
I can learn to use a GPS offline, I work in technology, I think I can cope... :)
Click to expand...

Ooh, the interfaces are going to burst aneurisms.

They are almost uniformly terrible.

The G1000 I've been using has at least three FU buttons. One will bust an instrument check ride, one will get you lost (or at least distracted figuring out WTF it's doing), and the third will bust airspace.
 
Long Beach Flying Club was always a good deal, but I don't know if they can accommodate foreign students.
 
Where I learned - they have an accelerated program for $10k. I'm not sure if they can do the i-20's. Weather's great in Virginia this time of the year.

www.curtiseads.com

Accelerated Private Pilot Package*: $9950 (C172)

The Accelerated Private Pilot Course is designed to award an FAA Private Pilot certificate in 14 days. Students enrolling in the course must be at least 17 years of age, and be able to pass a flight physical.

Full time and preparation are required to complete the course in the advertised time.
Includes up to:
50 hours of Aircraft Rental
45 hours of Instruction
Jeppesen Private Pilot Kit
CATS Knowledge Test
Washington and Cincinnati Sectional
Plotter, E6B, Kneeboard, Logbook
Hardcopy of C172 POH
 
I opened a new thread to get opinions on Tailwinds Etc, which looks like a pretty fair choice...
 
A partner just finished his ppl at an accelerated course at sun state aviation in Kissimmee fl.

He was pretty happy withe his time there.
 
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