So is this a bad idea to learn to fly on?

I don't see a issue. Might take you a little more time to get the hang of it in the pattern when compared to a 172 or the like, but totally doable.

might want to take that dinner tray off the yoke if you buy it ;)

Just find a good CFI with experience in more than just 172s and PA28s.


Looks like a nice plane.
 
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305 hp, full feathering prop, retract. Ridiculous climb rates. Don't recall if it's an IO-520 or IO-540.

This would be a great travelling plane, but quite a handful for a student, to say nothing of finding insurance for a student pilot. Expect many additional hours before solo as insurance requirements. But it would sure be fun!!!
 
Hank S said:
305 hp, full feathering prop, retract. Ridiculous climb rates. Don't recall if it's an IO-520 or IO-540.

This would be a great travelling plane, but quite a handful for a student, to say nothing of finding insurance for a student pilot. Expect many additional hours before solo as insurance requirements. But it would sure be fun!!!
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From the ad:
"300hp Continental IO-550-A, S/N 280414-R"
 
My dad and I have been talking about this for years. We need to run a few more numbers, but if it's anywhere close to the cost of renting then it may be worth considering. The short wings scare me a bit. I'm told the glide speeds are pretty high in the event of an engine failure. I guess that's to be expected in a plane designed for speed.

We were hoping for something that could carry 6 passengers + luggage in the end. We may end up going that route instead and just renting for training. We found a few Piper Seneca II's. I didn't think it was possible to train on a twin engine, but i'm told there are a few places/instructors that will. Is that false information?
 
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bimmerd00d said:
My dad and I have been talking about this for years. We need to run a few more numbers, but if it's anywhere close to the cost of renting then it may be worth considering. The short wings scare me a bit. I'm told the glide speeds are pretty high in the event of an engine failure. I guess that's to be expected in a plane designed for speed.

We were hoping for something that could carry 6 passengers + luggage in the end. We may end up going that route instead and just renting for training. We found a few Piper Seneca II's. I didn't think it was possible to train on a twin engine, but i'm told there are a few places/instructors that will. Is that false information?
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Isn't it just a Mooney with a big engine? That shouldn't make much of a difference in glide speed.
 
bimmerd00d said:
My dad and I have been talking about this for years. We need to run a few more numbers, but if it's anywhere close to the cost of renting then it may be worth considering. The short wings scare me a bit. I'm told the glide speeds are pretty high in the event of an engine failure. I guess that's to be expected in a plane designed for speed.

We were hoping for something that could carry 6 passengers + luggage in the end. We may end up going that route instead and just renting for training. We found a few Piper Seneca II's. I didn't think it was possible to train on a twin engine, but i'm told there are a few places/instructors that will. Is that false information?
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It's not so much that places don't want to do it but it's very expensive and insurance usually won't let you solo in a multi.

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kyleb said:
Isn't it just a Mooney with a big engine? That shouldn't make much of a difference in glide speed.
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Correct, the engine really had nothing to do with that. As a novice, the glide speed scared me a little bit for now, at least until I have some hours under my belt.
 
If you wanted to own instead of rent to learn just go the 172 pa28 etc route. Both of you could go PP then IR and build some time over 12-18 months total. Then sell it for not much less than you paid, assuming no issues while flying it. And as long as you didn't get raped on the purchase to begin with.

Good luck
 
I started my training in a Yak 52. Really not a big deal. Will take you a little longer than a standard trainer, but you'll know how to fly it in the end. Whatever you do, don't flop back and forth between HP retractable and FG trainer, like I did. You will become utterly confused.
 
bimmerd00d said:
Correct, the engine really had nothing to do with that. As a novice, the glide speed scared me a little bit for now, at least until I have some hours under my belt.
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The glide speed is no big deal, it will become normal to you as progress in your training.

It's just a mooney, not like its the space shuttle or a F-104, just a little single engine GA plane, really not that big of a deal to train in, and a fully feathering prop is a great safety feature and will make your engine out glide that much better.


If that's the plane you'll end up wanting, go for it.
 
James331 said:
The glide speed is no big deal, it will become normal to you as progress in your training.

It's just a mooney, not like its the space shuttle or a F-104, just a little single engine GA plane, really not that big of a deal to train in, and a fully feathering prop is a great safety feature and will make your engine out glide that much better.


If that's the plane you'll end up wanting, go for it.
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What he said.
 
James331 said:
The glide speed is no big deal, it will become normal to you as progress in your training.

It's just a mooney, not like its the space shuttle or a F-104, just a little single engine GA plane, really not that big of a deal to train in, and a fully feathering prop is a great safety feature and will make your engine out glide that much better.


If that's the plane you'll end up wanting, go for it.
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No idea why, I just think they're cool. Not a fan of high wings, the Mooney's appear to be very efficient for getting around.
 
bimmerd00d said:
http://www.controller.com/listingsd...SILE/1981-MOONEY-M20J-201-MISSILE/1357379.htm

I'm told this thing would be like trying to learn to drive in a 500hp Corvette.
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:rofl:

Mooney in the ad 3200 pound gross with 300 horse = 10.6 pounds per horsepower

Even if you take 500 pounds of fuel off the Mooney you still get only get 9 pounds per horse.

2015 Z06 = 3580 pounds with 650 horse = 5.51 pounds per horsepower



The 150 horse C177 with just me and 10 gallons of gas = 1690 pounds or 11.26 pounds per horse.
 
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bnt83 said:
:rofl:

Mooney in the ad 3200 pound gross with 300 horse = 10.6 pounds per horsepower

Even if you take 500 pounds of fuel off the Mooney you still get only get 9 pounds per horse.

2015 Z06 = 3580 pounds with 650 horse = 5.51 pounds per horsepower



The 150 horse C177 with just me and 10 gallons of gas = 1690 pounds or 11.26 pounds per horse.
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OH! So it's like a twin turbo Z06 with 1000+hp? Even more to the point.
 
bimmerd00d said:
OH! So it's like a twin turbo Z06 with 1000+hp? Even more to the point.
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:idea:

No. Its like a Z06 running on half the engine.

Pounds of vehicle per horsepower to move it is like golf, the lower the number the better.
 
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bimmerd00d said:
http://www.controller.com/listingsd...SILE/1981-MOONEY-M20J-201-MISSILE/1357379.htm

I'm told this thing would be like trying to learn to drive in a 500hp Corvette.
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People get their private certificates in Citations and Barons, so it's certainly possible to use that airplane for your initial training. It just takes longer.

There are lot of ways to ham-fist an engine like that in an expensive way, and until you get your instrument rating you won't be able to really use all that capability. You could learn in it, but why?

A regular Mooney would be a better choice.
 
http://austin.craigslist.org/for/5098217867.html

I think I could figure out a twin turbo :D

10783386.jpg
 
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If I had an aircraft like that (which I don't) and if I had a kid that wanted to learn to fly (which I don't), I would tell him to go to the local FBO and take lessons in their 150, 172, Cherokee or whatever trainer they use. But personally it does not matter to me what others do on subjects such as this. If your daddy has such an airplane and he doesn't mind you learning in it, go for it.
 
bnt83 said:
:rofl:

Mooney in the ad 3200 pound gross with 300 horse = 10.6 pounds per horsepower

Even if you take 500 pounds of fuel off the Mooney you still get only get 9 pounds per horse.

2015 Z06 = 3580 pounds with 650 horse = 5.51 pounds per horsepower



The 150 horse C177 with just me and 10 gallons of gas = 1690 pounds or 11.26 pounds per horse.
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Where is my mind today, must be starting July 4th early. I fully read that wrong.
 
SkyDog58 said:
If I had an aircraft like that (which I don't) and if I had a kid that wanted to learn to fly (which I don't), I would tell him to go to the local FBO and take lessons in their 150, 172, Cherokee or whatever trainer they use. But personally it does not matter to me what others do on subjects such as this. If your daddy has such an airplane and he doesn't mind you learning in it, go for it.
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There is no plane yet, we're just tossing around ideas/dreams. I realize the logical choice here is to learn on the cheapest method possible, whether that be buying a 150 or renting through a club/school/FBO. Just stirring the pot here ;).
 
JimNtexas said:
People get their private certificates in Citations and Barons, so it's certainly possible to use that airplane for your initial training. It just takes longer.

There are lot of ways to ham-fist an engine like that in an expensive way, and until you get your instrument rating you won't be able to really use all that capability. You could learn in it, but why?

A regular Mooney would be a better choice.
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Primary advantage is in saving cost of upgrading later. Every "trade up" costs a few thousand at least, not including the residual value lost in long term repairs and upgrades done that are never recouped.
 
To start with a high performance ,complex airplane ,can be a handful. Doubt you can get an insurance company will let you solo in that aircraft.
 
frfly172 said:
To start with a high performance ,complex airplane ,can be a handful. Doubt you can get an insurance company will let you solo in that aircraft.
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25 hrs from scratch with an approved CFI endorsement, no worries. Believe it or not, Insurance companies actually like this scenario more than transition.
 
I'd still rent until after solo. Learning to land in a retract that I own is not something I would want to do. Remember all of your student landings? Crow hopping in crosswind, stalling a few feet above the runway, flaring three feet low, catching a nose wheel? Do these things in someone else's plane, not your retract.

I bought my Mooney five weeks after the checkride. By then, I had landings down pat, and the transition wasn't too bad, just had to get used to the low wing, great visibility in the pattern and a seat that would not crank up and down.
 
bnt83 said:
Comparing high end piston airplanes to high end sportscars is..... a stretch.
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I've mentioned this before. I currently drive a porsche. I've owned two. The Mooneys I've flown always remind me of a porsche. The cockpit seating is similar, the speed in the mooney is great as it is in the porsche, and if you don't pay attention either will bite you. A doctor I knew, very bright, learned to fly in a mooney and a year later owned an aerostar. Didn't seem to hinder him a bit.
 
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If this is the plane you and your dad want to own long term, then go for it and start your training with it. I'm not a big fan of buying another airplane to train on and then selling it. That route has the potential of costing you a lot. I would suggest renting until after you solo. I would not want to subject my own airplane to those first 15 hours or so. Besides, Speed control in the pattern is very important in a Mooney. 10 knots to fast on final and you will float in ground effect half way down the runway. This maybe be a bit much for a student pilot just trying to learn to land. Go ahead and bounce the hell out of a rented 172 and after you solo move to the Missile. I would also highly encourage that you find a CFI with Mooney experience.
 
Perezhr said:
If this is the plane you and your dad want to own long term, then go for it and start your training with it. I'm not a big fan of buying another airplane to train on and then selling it. That route has the potential of costing you a lot. I would suggest renting until after you solo. I would not want to subject my own airplane to those first 15 hours or so. Besides, Speed control in the pattern is very important in a Mooney. 10 knots to fast on final and you will float in ground effect half way down the runway. This maybe be a bit much for a student pilot just trying to learn to land. Go ahead and bounce the hell out of a rented 172 and after you solo move to the Missile. I would also highly encourage that you find a CFI with Mooney experience.
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All solid advice in this thread, thanks everyone! I like this don't buy until post-solo. That sounds like a plan.

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Tom-D said:
If you are going to buy and fly that Mooney, you will eventually get all the training to do so. So why not get it all now?

learning to fly a Cessna 150/172 is not going to make you safe in that Mooney.
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I think that's the plan now. Get near where I can solo and pick up what we want.

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bimmerd00d said:
I think that's the plan now. Get near where I can solo and pick up what we want.

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You can pick up what you want anytime. Good planes don't stay on the market long even now.
 
I agree with Hank about renting the airplane you crash on the runway a few dozen times at the beginning. Speed control in a Mooney is key, and as an initial student that's the hard part. If you get a Mooney into a pilot induced oscillation on landing, you have about three bounces before you strike the prop.

Buy it while you can. Rent for the initial training. Once you get past the touch and goes, then switch to "your" Mooney. That's only, what, maybe 15 hours or so of rental? Much cheaper than the new prop on the Mooney.

I bought my Mooney J model when I had about 45 hours TT. It was not that big a deal to transition or insure. And oh what a fabulous airplane!
 
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