New Guy on CFI advice

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flyinhood

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flyinhood
Hi Everyone,

I'm glad I found this site and would love some of your opinions. My day job is flying for one of the larger frationals, but I am getting ready to start instructing on the side. Obviously I don't "need" the time, I just really enjoy sharing aviation and helping students out who may need some extra help.

Anyway,

INSTRUCTORS:
I'm starting an LLC to help with some of the liability that hopfully never comes down on any of us but what about CFI insurance? What kind / how much insurance do some of you free lancers carry? I have already spoken to Avemco and I think one of their more expensive policies is like 575.00/ year.

So insurance and ANY other advice from the CFI crowd on running a good part time biz would be very helpful.

STUDENTS:
What did you like / dislike about any of your instructors? What do you wish you could have told them way back when?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Welcome to POA.

As a student one thing that i'd recommend is making your schedule easy to access. Perhaps a shared calendar where students can see 'open' time and even add their own calendar entries. I guess that'll depend on whether you're providing the plane and control that aspect of the process. That is one example of something I like about the CFI i'm using, I can pull up his calendar for next week, see where the holes are and put myself in.

Good luck.
 
jimbilly said:
Welcome to POA.

As a student one thing that i'd recommend is making your schedule easy to access. Perhaps a shared calendar where students can see 'open' time and even add their own calendar entries. I guess that'll depend on whether you're providing the plane and control that aspect of the process. That is one example of something I like about the CFI i'm using, I can pull up his calendar for next week, see where the holes are and put myself in.

Good luck.
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Great Idea. Thanks. Maybe my Wife could put something together on facebook? hmmm
 
flyinhood said:
Great Idea. Thanks. Maybe my Wife could put something together on facebook? hmmm
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Ha, yea or something more generic maybe, a lot of facebook haters out there. (or Facebook phobia)
 
...thats why I said "my wife". She's more into social media than I am. I don't even have a facebook....figured the NSA already has enough intell on me.
 
Hey (likely) FlexJet guy...

Personally I think you are headed for headaches. That said, I wish you luck with your new endevour.
 
I was older than all of my instructors. I told them what needed to be told without hesitation. If I thought they were full of crap or if I thought they were just riding my ticket for their paycheck, I told them. If I thought their teaching style was working or not working for me, I told them. Post flight briefings went both ways with me.

The open calendar is good. Having one online seems even better.

I never thought of an LLC for instructing. It could work. So basically you are starting a flight school but using planes the students rent from the FBO? Are you just wanting to protect yourself from possible liabilities after the student gets their certificate?

575 per year sounds like cheap peace of mind to me.

Keep us informed on how that goes.
 
The club I'm in uses ScheduleMaster for scheduling airplanes. My CFI also uses ScheduleMaster for scheduling his time. This is fantastic. I just open SM.com website and check my CFI and then reserve him like an airplane. Any times he's not available, he blocks out. Easy. I heartily recommend this or similar approach.
 
Thanks for the ideas so far. My home airport is 52F where we have somewhere around 600 registered airplanes on the field. My plan is to start with folks I know around here with their own airplanes who need to finish up their private, add on an instrument, and of course bi-annuals. I have an A&P as well so I may add some mx into the mix. My goal is to eventually buy a Cub or Citabria.

The LLC idea is for liability. Truth is I really enjoy people and airplanes. The other day I was helping a young man polish his wheel landings in a C-140. When his light bulb went off and he started consistently "getting it", we were both having a great time. When I first began instructing it was for rent and total time. I enjoyed people but filling up the logbook was a close second.

Today I finally have time to get back into it and maybe share some things I learned along the way.

Kirtchlow:
Flexjet is a good company and I have had friends there but I actually work for the other big one. Can you add your "headache" thoughts? Were you talking about making a profit or instructing in general?
 
Welcome to the forum. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
flyinhood said:
INSTRUCTORS:
I'm starting an LLC to help with some of the liability that hopfully never comes down on any of us but what about CFI insurance? What kind / how much insurance do some of you free lancers carry? I have already spoken to Avemco and I think one of their more expensive policies is like 575.00/ year.

So insurance and ANY other advice from the CFI crowd on running a good part time biz would be very helpful.
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I don't know how much you know about liability, so just a few points (if you know this already, my apologies.) Structuring as an LLC is not going to insulate you entirely from liability. If you are instructing, and someone claims that you acted negligently, you can be held personally liable for your own negligence. Instructing under an LLC is not going to change that. It can insulate you for liabilities of the company. So, if you sign a contract on behalf of the company, (and you disclose you are signing on behalf of the company, and not yourself) and the company goes belly up, they you won't be liable for the companies debts, unless they can make the necessary showings to pierce the corporate veil, or they make you guarantee it personally. Piercing the corporate veil involves showing that you ignored the formal requirements of operating as a company, such as treating the company assets as your own, etc. Also, if one of your employees if liable, and the company is vicariously liable, the LLC CAN help you avoid that liability.

So, bottom line, be sure to get good enough insurance. All it takes to sue someone is a few hundred dollars and a piece of paper.
 
Put your personal assets in a living trust - home/car/airplane/etc. This is vitally important
99% of the mega rich do this.
99% of the 99% don't.
Ever wonder why the rich got rich?

There is a famous quotation by an industrial revolution baron "Control everything. Own nothing."
The reason is if you don't own it they can't take it.

Now, whether you create an LLC for the instruction business is up to you (I would not bother)
You cannot escape liability for your personal actions. So spending money on company/corporate shells is wasted money.
If you want to do it to look more professional, go ahead (shrug)
What can/will happen is if found liable for an accident or professional neglect they will garnishee your wages. No legal maneuvering can prevent that. But they cannot take what you do not own.

Ahhh the thrills of self employment.
 
Thanks guys. A lot to consider. Taxes and buisness expenses was another reason for the LLC. I will look into the trust.
 
Thats great you are doing this,
The biggest thing I can think of is to be mindful of your certificates exposure anytime you are in the right seat. You for sure want to keep your nose clean with your employer/career.
Have Fun !
 
Flight training documentation is key to avoiding liability. Create a training record that covers all PTS requirements and includes the students signature under a training statement like "received, understood, and able to apply".
Most liability cases thrive on our poor logbook training records.
 
No! Students are not trying to kill you! We're trying NOT to kill you. We're just not very good at not killing you. Good luck! The world needs as many good CFIs as we can get.
 
flyinhood said:
INSTRUCTORS:
I'm starting an LLC to help with some of the liability
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Ask an attorney familiar with your state's liability laws for confirmation, but creating an LLC won't do anything to help with your liability as an instructor. IOW, it's probably a waste of time, money, and effort. There may be tax or debt protection reasons for doing that (ask a CPA and an attorney about those), but it's almost certain there's no liability advantage there.

that hopfully never comes down on any of us but what about CFI insurance? What kind / how much insurance do some of you free lancers carry? I have already spoken to Avemco and I think one of their more expensive policies is like 575.00/ year.
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I pay $1300 a year for my CFI insurance, including substantial liability and hull coverage as well as instructional liability. It's a cost of doing business, and essential to protect my substantial assets (and it's tax deductible). Again, talk to an attorney, but what you're likely to hear is that insurance is your #1 best means to protect yourself.
 
PPC1052 said:
It can insulate you for liabilities of the company. So, if you sign a contract on behalf of the company, (and you disclose you are signing on behalf of the company, and not yourself) and the company goes belly up, they you won't be liable for the companies debts...
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It's most unlikely that an independent instructor would be in a position to take advantage of such debt protection -- they just don't incur that sort of debts. Yes, if you buy an airplane in which to instructor and have payments to make on that plane, or if you rent office space in which to operate, or something like that, yes, that could protect your personal assents if the company goes belly-up. However, that's not usually how independent instructors operate -- ask your CPA about whether your planned operations would be such that this protection would be worth the time and expense of forming an LLC.
 
flyinhood said:
Thanks guys. A lot to consider. Taxes and buisness expenses was another reason for the LLC.
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You don't need an LLC to take advantage of the tax benefits and deductions for self-employed business activities -- ask your CPA.

I will look into the trust.
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Unlikely to be of any value unless you have substantial assets to protect -- ask an attorney who works in trusts and estates.
 
flyinhood said:
Kirtchlow:
Flexjet is a good company and I have had friends there but I actually work for the other big one. Can you add your "headache" thoughts? Were you talking about making a profit or instructing in general?
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Hi hood..
The pita aspect, IMO, has been laid out. Insurance , liability... You get the picture. Not for me, but more power to you if you want to go for it.

I guessed Flex, as you said "one of the larger". Seeing as though we all know the "largest", I knew it wasn't those guys.
Anyway, I'm old CitationAir, so I have fond memories of the fractional world!!
 
Thanks Ron!!
That's some of the exact advice I was searching for. I want to learn for those out there doing this.

Kritch:
I have been with "the largest" for 11 years now. Hope all has gone ok for you since CS.

Flying the fractionals is never boring. This week was Nantucket to LAX and everywhere in between. Sometimes boring would be preferable.
 
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For student advice: Just remember that some things take time and that sometimes the only thing standing in the way of a student succeeding or failing is time itself. Sometimes my instructor would grow angry or irritated if I wasn't getting something. I was obviously putting my all into it, and the only thing standing in the way of my success in X maneuver was practice. This being said, flying is expensive and most of your students will be motivated, so if anything tell the student I know you're not getting this, but let's "risk free no judgement" try this until you get it right.

I was sometimes tense and unnatural during maneuvers since I knew the inevitable disappointment of my instructor would be uncomfortable. Then when I was on my own, my head was in a completely different mental state, and I almost had to learn them again. Just something to keep in mind. It's easy to get upset after working with stagnating after stagnating student, but that's what you signed up for, and you won't get any sympathy from me.
 
flyinhood said:
Thanks Ron!!
That's some of the exact advice I was searching for. I want to learn for those out there doing this.

Kritch:
I have been with "the largest" for 11 years now. Hope all has gone ok for you since CS.

Flying the fractionals is never boring. This week was Nantucket to LAX and everywhere in between. Sometimes boring would be preferable.
Click to expand...

Hood- it actually has been good for most. Some have moved to other fractional/corporate gigs, and others (like myself) have moved to the airlines. I'm currently in the A320.
I truly think the fractional flying is the toughest flying out there. If I do say so myself, we tear it up. It's true aviation.

Good luck with your future endevour and more importantly, good luck on your next contract!!
 
Thanks for the kind words. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to stay fractional and teach GA on my 7 off or go 121 and just keep GA as a hobby. I'm kinda in a weird position because my wife is 121 too. More than likely I will stay frac and continue to enjoy tail wheel teaching on my days off.

Lucky for me my wife and I get to enjoy our Luscombe 8a together.
 
Randall45 said:
For student advice: Just remember that some things take time and that sometimes the only thing standing in the way of a student succeeding or failing is time itself. Sometimes my instructor would grow angry or irritated if I wasn't getting something. I was obviously putting my all into it, and the only thing standing in the way of my success in X maneuver was practice. This being said, flying is expensive and most of your students will be motivated, so if anything tell the student I know you're not getting this, but let's "risk free no judgement" try this until you get it right.

I was sometimes tense and unnatural during maneuvers since I knew the inevitable disappointment of my instructor would be uncomfortable. Then when I was on my own, my head was in a completely different mental state, and I almost had to learn them again. Just something to keep in mind. It's easy to get upset after working with stagnating after stagnating student, but that's what you signed up for, and you won't get any sympathy from me.
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Thanks for posting that. I believe there is never ever an excuse for a CFI to get upset with a student (maybe safety and it would have to be really bad).

You are not just "a student". You are a client and should be treated as such. A CFI has the responsibility to help you reach your goals and hopefully have fun along the way.

Years ago I was having trouble with some landings. After I really pranged one on my CFI said, "want to be a pro pilot someday. Huh?"

He was probably kidding, but I was young, and it hurt. Years later when I was in the right seat (and today back in the left), I never forgot what it felt like to take what is supposed to be a fun activity and turning it into something learning to fly was not meant to be.
 
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Just don't hit me or call me public enemy #1 like mine did back in 1975. :D
 
With that attitude, it sounds like you're going to be a great instructor! Congrats and good luck!
 
Flyinhood,

I'm a Sport Pilot Powered Parachute and been toying with the idea of becoming a "real" Pilot. 52F is the perfect location and I've been wanting an individual CFI, not a flight school. I'll be your first customer if your interested.
 
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