Flight Following

TWinter

TWinter

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TWinter
I know I should know better, but haven't done it in a long time and can't remember the protocol. Most of my xcountry flights have been within the reach of full tanks so I pick up F-Following and off we go. With the airport in sight and cancel FF. Good thing about the efficiency of the Mooney most trips I make with just full tanks and reserve. The bad thing is you get rusty on procedure like in this case on a planned longer flight.

I've got a few longer 900+/- xcountry plans this summer. Dumb question number one. When using FF and stopping for my fuel stops do I just cancel the flight-following and reinitiate a new FF plan with them after each time I land for fuel. or..will they keep me in the system and I just advise them when I'm airborne again..

When starting the flight do I tell them I've departed XYZ (home airport) and indicate the final destination airport (the one 900 miles away) as my destination airport, or just give them the next fuel stop airport and then start FF again. This is what happens when you have a twenty year flying hiatus. Thanks in advance..-Tom:mad2:
 
As far as keeping you live while you make a quick stop, maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on where you are an how busy they are.

Don't give them you're destination 900 miles away unless you are planning on doing it non-stop. You can assume they'll want you to cancel for each leg.
 
You don't "cancel."

You get flight following to each intermediate destination. When you report a non towered field in sight, you'll get handed off to CTAF and perhaps told to squawk VFR (maybe not -- don't do it unless instructed). For a towered airport, you'll get handed off to Tower before entering Class D.

Some towered airports will let you request flight following for the next leg on the ground (and from Ground, with your departure request), some won't. Just ask.

Unless you're doing a touch'n'go, there isn't any benefit to staying under flight following inside the traffic pattern.
 
MAKG1 said:
You don't "cancel."

You get flight following to each intermediate destination. When you report a non towered field in sight, you'll get handed off to CTAF and perhaps told to squawk VFR (maybe not -- don't do it unless instructed). For a towered airport, you'll get handed off to Tower before entering Class D.

Some towered airports will let you request flight following for the next leg on the ground (and from Ground, with your departure request), some won't. Just ask.

Unless you're doing a touch'n'go, there isn't any benefit to staying under flight following inside the traffic pattern.
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For my solo xc from klvk to ksns I picked up flight following on the ground at livermore. When coming into salinas, I was getting pretty darn close to the airport and norcal still had me with them. I think within about 10 miles or so I told them to cancel flight following, and I contacted tower myself. How much longer would they have had me on norcal before handing me off to salinas?

Come to think of it, same thing happened from klvk to ksts.
 
Thanks guys..Just could not remember if they kept me in the system and I just needed to let them know when airborne again or if I needed to cancel completely at each fuel leg and start a new FF procedure from scratch after fuel stop.

Headed up to Maine and New Hampshire for from west Tennessee for a visit in a month or so. Just trying to get things lined up.

-Tom
 
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You can ask if they will let you keep the squawk, if it is a short stop sometimes they will do this.
 
vkhosid said:
For my solo xc from klvk to ksns I picked up flight following on the ground at livermore. When coming into salinas, I was getting pretty darn close to the airport and norcal still had me with them. I think within about 10 miles or so I told them to cancel flight following, and I contacted tower myself. How much longer would they have had me on norcal before handing me off to salinas?

Come to think of it, same thing happened from klvk to ksts.
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Class D is only four miles, and NorCal seems really happy to wait until the last possible second. It gets real fun with Class B.

You can always ask like you did. They may be waiting for you to report airport in sight. That seems to get a "frequency change approved" real fast. Even on a crappy day around here, you can often spot the field 10 miles out. On a nice day, it's 30 or more (but it can be hard to pick out of the clutter unless you're staring straight down a runway).

Both Salinas and Santa Rosa have VORs on the field, so it's real easy to home there even if you can't see them.

10 miles is a LITTLE far to report in, and Tower will often reply with "report 2 mile final" or something similar. You're much closer to Hollister -- and close to the aerobatic box -- at that course and distance. I'd stay with NorCal at least until over the mountains.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Class D is only four miles, and NorCal seems really happy to wait until the last possible second. It gets real fun with Class B.

You can always ask like you did. They may be waiting for you to report airport in sight. That seems to get a "frequency change approved" real fast. Even on a crappy day around here, you can often spot the field 10 miles out. On a nice day, it's 30 or more (but it can be hard to pick out of the clutter unless you're staring straight down a runway).
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Yeah, it wasn't really a concern of mine. Just that when I made the dual xc with my instructor, coming from KMOD to KLVK, norcal handed us off to tower, provided current atis, offered to fluff my pillow and refill my soda....basically did everything but land the plane for me. That was the only time I experienced that. Every other time, I told them I had the field in sight and they respond with sqwak vfr, freq. change approved. :dunno:
 
You could put in a VFR flight plan from HomeBase to Final Destination, putting your fuel stops as your Route and in the remarks state that you'll be fueling at airport 1 and 2.

Then when you request the FF they'll have the whole story and they'll do what makes most sense for the workload at each stop.
 
When I went to Yellowstone and back VFR, I just asked for flight following after each departure, and called field in sight for each landing. Treated it like a flight plan, new for each leg. We stopped long enough to fuel up and go into town for food.
 
rolivi said:
You could put in a VFR flight plan from HomeBase to Final Destination, putting your fuel stops as your Route and in the remarks state that you'll be fueling at airport 1 and 2.

Then when you request the FF they'll have the whole story and they'll do what makes most sense for the workload at each stop.
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ATC doesnt recieve VFR flight plans. The whole point of a VFR flight plan is for SAR purposes. That's AFSS territory.

I flew nonstop from Texas to Georgia the other day using FF and never dropped from ATC. Flight plans for VFR are pretty useless these days.
 
Bear in mind that Flight Following is discretionary on the part of ATC, depending on their workload. This means that they may cancel you at any time, often with no prior notice, in the middle of nowhere. Of course this does not preclude you from trying again, on the next sector's frequency (don't try on the same one because they'd be justifiably annoyed). The point is that you need to think of FF as a series of stretches where ATC has time for you, not as some kind of contract, like IFR flight. Also, despite some misconceptions, as McFly mentioned above, VFR flight plans have nothing to do with ATC or FF, they are never sent to ATC so have no bearing whatsoever on your FF handling.
 
RotorDude said:
Bear in mind that Flight Following is discretionary on the part of ATC, depending on their workload. This means that they may cancel you at any time, often with no prior notice, in the middle of nowhere. Of course this does not preclude you from trying again, on the next sector's frequency (don't try on the same one because they'd be justifiably annoyed). The point is that you need to think of FF as a series of stretches where ATC has time for you, not as some kind of contract, like IFR flight. Also, despite some misconceptions, as McFly mentioned above, VFR flight plans have nothing to do with ATC or FF, they are never sent to ATC so have no bearing whatsoever on your FF handling.
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Twice now on the east coast, the response to my request for FF was "unable at this time". It happens.
 
I agree and I'm aware it's a "as available service". Since I'm heading from Memphis Center and working my way northeast to New England I'll be curious to see if I'm able to maintain constant FF throughout the entire trip, especially around the Boston area. Should be a great couple of trips, plan on going at least twice this spring and summer. Got my ticket in Sanford, Maine..20 yrs ago. I haven't been to that airport since then. Just one of my many planned stops.
 
McFly -- I toured the DFW Tracon a couple weeks ago and the controllers told us that they do see the proposed VFR flight plan and it is easier for them to establish services because it has all the relevant information already recorded.

They did emphasize that they won't open or close the plan with Flight Service, but they do have the data.
 
rolivi said:
McFly -- I toured the DFW Tracon a couple weeks ago and the controllers told us that they do see the proposed VFR flight plan and it is easier for them to establish services because it has all the relevant information already recorded.

They did emphasize that they won't open or close the plan with Flight Service, but they do have the data.
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Well they must have some sort of special computer then because the system has never been able to recieve VFR flight plans. I just contacted 1 class B controller and 2 class C controllers and they all said, no, they do not recieve VFR flight plans filed by the pilot. Same way it was when I did ATC years ago.

Perhaps you saw a strip with VFR in the altitude block? That's becoming more and more popular these days. Pilots file IFR and then put VFR for the altitude with FF in the remarks. It's does make it easier on the controller in that all the pertinent information is given and the controller doesn't have to type it in. Doesn't mean you still can't get terminated though.

The other thing is they could have been typed in by ground / tower coordinator or who ever after a pilot request for FF. This is what I did with ground on my departure the other day. They type it in, it comes up with a proposed time, I get a sqk, that sqk tags up my ID in the ARTS computer on departure and I got FF from TX to GA nonstop.
 
When I have received flight following it has depended on who I was talking with. Talking to Newark or JFK, things are very brief, very professional, but the second they can get you switched over to somebody else they will. They hear those magic words field in site, or even you just leave their area they will switch you to VFR or hand you off. If I use McGuire, Atlantic City, or Trenton, they will give you a lot more time, and are usually slower to hand you off. One time with McGuire, I radioed field in site and they were even nice enough to give me traffic near my destination before I switch over to 1200.
 
vkhosid said:
For my solo xc from klvk to ksns I picked up flight following on the ground at livermore. When coming into salinas, I was getting pretty darn close to the airport and norcal still had me with them. I think within about 10 miles or so I told them to cancel flight following, and I contacted tower myself. How much longer would they have had me on norcal before handing me off to salinas?

Come to think of it, same thing happened from klvk to ksts.
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You can be pretty sure that both facilities were talking on the interphone about your flight. My guess is that when Salinas told NorCal that they were ready to accept you, the call from NorCal would have come.

Bob Gardner
 
BTW, this is a great question by the OP. I'm headed to Mass (KBAF) for the Great NE Airshow this weekend at Westover and have made this trip several times from central Ohio.

I have been dropped once I think, but from Indy to Cleveland, to New York to Boston Tracon, the controllers have been very accommodating. Last time I was East of KPIT and NE bound and my fuel stop was Penn State. They were fogged in and I was VFR. I think I was talking to Allentown approach and asked him to double check the WX at my fuel stop and he came back and said, "yeah you're not going there." I told him I was thinking Jimmy Stewart as it was reporting clear and he agreed it was a much better option and told me to report the field in site.

Sometimes they will tell you what freq to call them up on when you are airborne again. I *really* appreciate FF when I'm doing the longer x-countries. Can't wait for Thursday!
 
bobmrg said:
You can be pretty sure that both facilities were talking on the interphone about your flight. My guess is that when Salinas told NorCal that they were ready to accept you, the call from NorCal would have come.

Bob Gardner
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That's what my concern was...whether or not I was going to get handed over. I had my tablet with me just for funsies...and when I looked at it to see how far away from the airport I was, I was maybe 2-3 miles outside of their airspace.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well they must have some sort of special computer then because the system has never been able to recieve VFR flight plans. I just contacted 1 class B controller and 2 class C controllers and they all said, no, they do not recieve VFR flight plans filed by the pilot. Same way it was when I did ATC years ago.

Perhaps you saw a strip with VFR in the altitude block? That's becoming more and more popular these days. Pilots file IFR and then put VFR for the altitude with FF in the remarks. It's does make it easier on the controller in that all the pertinent information is given and the controller doesn't have to type it in. Doesn't mean you still can't get terminated though.

The other thing is they could have been typed in by ground / tower coordinator or who ever after a pilot request for FF. This is what I did with ground on my departure the other day. They type it in, it comes up with a proposed time, I get a sqk, that sqk tags up my ID in the ARTS computer on departure and I got FF from TX to GA nonstop.
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It depends on the facility. Unless the facility is adapted to not receive VFR proposals, they do populate in the computer. Our computer spits out VFR proposals. It even assigns a beacon code. Whether or not they call for flight following...different story.
 
MarkZ said:
It depends on the facility. Unless the facility is adapted to not receive VFR proposals, they do populate in the computer. Our computer spits out VFR proposals. It even assigns a beacon code. Whether or not they call for flight following...different story.
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Good to know. The guys I talked to (CHA, ABI & ATL) all said their computer doesn't receive VFRs. Like you said, facility dependent.

Seems like a waste of paper to me though. Not everyone that files wants FF. Not everyone that files even departs. Lots of strips going in the waste basket.
 
vkhosid said:
That's what my concern was...whether or not I was going to get handed over. I had my tablet with me just for funsies...and when I looked at it to see how far away from the airport I was, I was maybe 2-3 miles outside of their airspace.
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So keep in mind when you are talking to an approach controller of an airspace surrounding a C or D airport, you meet the requirements of being in contact with ATC to enter that airspace. You do not need "clearance" to enter, you are in communication with ATC. On flight following, almost never is there a scenario where you NEED to cancel and establish with tower on your own. They will either coordinate the transition and tell you when to contact tower OR they will cancel your FF, tell you to squwak VFR and to contact tower (rare into a controlled field)...but you do not need to cancel and reestablish contact with tower on your own without their prior instruction.

Now some will argue that being in just any contact with ANY ATC does not constitute C or D clearance, but 95% of approach controllers surrounding the adjacent airspace...especially when it is your destination do fulfill that requirement of being in contact to enter C or D airspace. It does not always need to be tower that you are in communication with to enter.

If ever unsure, all your gotta ask is "Nor Cal, Cessana XYZ, confirming you are coordinating my transtion with Salinas Tower?"
 
Shawn said:
So keep in mind when you are talking to an approach controller of an airspace surrounding a C or D airport, you meet the requirements of being in contact with ATC to enter that airspace. You do not need "clearance" to enter, you are in communication with ATC. On flight following, almost never is there a scenario where you NEED to cancel and establish with tower on your own. They will either coordinate the transition and tell you when to contact tower OR they will cancel your FF, tell you to squwak VFR and to contact tower (rare into a controlled field)...but you do not need to cancel and reestablish contact with tower on your own without their prior instruction.

Now some will argue that being in just any contact with ANY ATC does not constitute C or D clearance, but 95% of approach controllers surrounding the adjacent airspace...especially when it is your destination do fulfill that requirement of being in contact to enter C or D airspace. It does not always need to be tower that you are in communication with to enter.

If ever unsure, all your gotta ask is "Nor Cal, Cessana XYZ, confirming you are coordinating my transtion with Salinas Tower?"
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VERY helpful, dude!! Thanks!
 
No problem. I am a big advocate and fan of Flight Following and half the fun of flying for me is mastering and be a part of the the "system" when flying, both IFR and VFR.

Here is a great series called "say again" that has a lot of articles that pertain to flight following and radio work written from a controller's perspective if anyone is interested.

http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/
 
MarkZ said:
It depends on the facility. Unless the facility is adapted to not receive VFR proposals, they do populate in the computer. Our computer spits out VFR proposals. It even assigns a beacon code. Whether or not they call for flight following...different story.
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If it is a NAS code it'll generate a strip, but a local code won't. I feel like someone in this thread is confusing AFSS VFR flight plans with strips which is easy to do.
 
Shawn said:
No problem. I am a big advocate and fan of Flight Following and half the fun of flying for me is mastering and be a part of the the "system" when flying, both IFR and VFR.

Here is a great series called "say again" that has a lot of articles that pertain to flight following and radio work written from a controller's perspective if anyone is interested.

http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/
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I WOULD have said all that if you hadn't beaten me to it. Nicely done Sir. So nicely done in fact that I'm not fully convinced you are NOT a controller.
 
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Approach_controller said:
If it is a NAS code it'll generate a strip, but a local code won't. I feel like someone in this thread is confusing AFSS VFR flight plans with strips which is easy to do.
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The comment was made that "you could put in a VFR flight plan". I took that to mean AFSS flight plan??? Will an AFSS flight plan generate an NAS code?
 
Velocity173 said:
The comment was made that "you could put in a VFR flight plan". I took that to mean AFSS flight plan??? Will an AFSS flight plan generate an NAS code?
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I think the confusion stems from the differences in VFR vs IFR flight plans. A VFR flight plan is for SAR purposes while an IFR flight plan is for ATC purposes. I'm sure everyone here knows that.

Where the confusion begins is as a controller I see an entered call sign, type, altitude, route, squawk, and CID on a Flight Progress Strip. These are automatically generated for any IFR through any source, but must be intentionally generated for a VFR by a controller. Colloquially Flight Progress Strips are called strips or flight plans. At no point have I ever heard a controller entering in a "VFR flight plan" ask about anything SAR related such as souls, color of aircraft, fuel, or actual intended route aside from origin and destination.

I do not think a NAS code is generated from AFSS. We barely have NOTAM integration in their system. Furthermore, I've called in NOTAMS on break from my cell phone to bypass the current infrastructure. The compatibility simply doesn't exist. Maybe it does elsewhere, but about five times a year I hear a GA pilot ask to pick up his AFSS filed VFR flight plan and it never exists within our HOST system.
 
Approach_controller said:
I WOULD have said all that if you hadn't beaten me to it. Nicely done Sir. So nicely done in fact that I'm not fully convinced you are NOT a controller.
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Thanks...I would probably enjoy being a controller...well, except for the part about staring at a screen constantly and dealing with jackwaggon pilots like myself all day!
 
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The facility I toured was zDFW and we discussed that I routinely use flight following but rarely file a VFR plan.

I understood from them (controller/tour guides) that they had access to the filed VFR plans. I probed about before/after opening the plan with FSS and they said they could find the proposed plan.

I've sent an email to them to understand the disconnect. I'll update when I receive their response.
 
rolivi said:
You could put in a VFR flight plan from HomeBase to Final Destination, putting your fuel stops as your Route and in the remarks state that you'll be fueling at airport 1 and 2.
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I'm not sure I would recommend this practice. I once had a refueling truck go missing for nearly 2.5 hours at my refueling stop in Central Florida. Besides, it's difficult to predict what will happen at one, much less two, refueling points to properly estimate duration of flight; especially for a filed flight plan with SAR triggers. What if you decide to get an unscheduled bite or take a call? Better to file separate flight plans in my opinion and update them during each stop for winds.
 
WakeNCAgent said:
I'm not sure I would recommend this practice. I once had a refueling truck go missing for nearly 2.5 hours at my refueling stop in Central Florida. Besides, it's difficult to predict what will happen at one, much less two, refueling points to properly estimate duration of flight; especially for a filed flight plan with SAR triggers. What if you decide to get an unscheduled bite or take a call? Better to file separate flight plans in my opinion and update them during each stop for winds.
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AIM 6-2-6(g). Always a good idea.

Bob Gardner
 
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