ATC asking IFR aircraft to 'say destination'

Fearless Tower

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Fearless Tower
I've had this happen 3 times in the last couple weeks while flying IFR. Each time was a different facility, some Approach and some Center. I'll be flying along over halfway through or nearing the end of an IFR flight and the controller will ask me to 'say destination'. Any ideas why? Isn't that on the strip they have? Is there a computer glitch affecting the ATC computer system recently?
 
This happened to me on FF at least 4 times flying from FDK to 0B5 last weekend. I figured it was just because we were flying towards the Hudson river "tour" and not direct 0B5
 
we used to frequently file with MCI (kansas city) as the destination in the flight plan. Never intending to land there, but the hayfield at dad's doesn't have an ICAO identifier. The approach controllers knew us and as soon as we were handed to them they'd ask where we were landing today.
 
Huh, haven't heard recently.
 
Just asked about this. You flight info definitely has your destination on there. More than likely the controller is unfamiliar with the destination identifier and is just curious where it is. They have the ability to look up any identifier on their computer but were probably just too lazy and wanted to ask you.
 
Just because you filed doesn't mean I have the flight plan. Seriously. 70% of the time I do, of the remainder 99% of the time it shows up in your tag, the other 1% I don't have the slightest clue. If flight data is slacking for a few minutes, I'll just give up and ask.

I'd guess roughly 10%-30% of IFR departures I don't have the flight plan on. It can get to where you agree to the IFR release THEN ask the tower if its a prop/jet/north turn/south turn because I just released 6 planes with no flight plans on hand. I'm blocking a huge swath for one inbound.
 
I inquired about this back when I was flying a lot of XC and was told, correctly?, that the databases that center controllers have doesn't include all the small airpors in space outside of theirs. So, I'd start filing to CGI instead of 0T3 and the inquiries were greatly reduced.

I'd also get this inquiry when flying to TKX to refuel because Memphis controllers would think I was off course. It happened so often that it got to be a joke...

"57 Delta say destination."

"It's not Texarkana...lake a closer look!"

"Oh...going to that cheap gas airport, eh?"

Kennett, Mo (TKX) was typically a buck a gallon cheaper than my home 'drome when I was based @ SGF.
 
Just asked about this. You flight info definitely has your destination on there. More than likely the controller is unfamiliar with the destination identifier and is just curious where it is. They have the ability to look up any identifier on their computer but were probably just too lazy and wanted to ask you.

Nah. I have a touch screen that lists most destinations right down to Uncle Pete's Soy field. Takes exactly 4 touches to get the specifics. If I'm unfamiliar I'll run through the screen. Absent of that, "Where are you landing, the paperwork hasn't reached me yet" It means exactly that. I don't know squat about you, but you're heading dead on to a local airport. Can we get the entire ATIS/runway/approach thing out of the way prior to short final please?
 
May be different for an Approach controller. I asked a center guy, stuff must be in the system by the time they reach the center.
 
Just because you filed doesn't mean I have the flight plan. Seriously. 70% of the time I do, of the remainder 99% of the time it shows up in your tag, the other 1% I don't have the slightest clue. If flight data is slacking for a few minutes, I'll just give up and ask.

Understand that, but my cases weren't a matter of the controller not seeing my flight plan when I called to get my clearance or was handed off from tower to departure. These all happened after 2+ hrs of being in the system.

One of them was going into PHX. The final approach controller asked me.....I guess he didn't think a piston airplane would want to go to PHX.
 
Of course, I've had controllers NOT ask me where I was going and I had to ask them where they were sending me after they let me overfly my destination on vectors.
 
Not exactly the same at all, but seems relevant: A couple of weeks back, went flying with a buddy on a local tour... Started at West Houston, went to the San Jacinto monument via the I-10 corridor, looped around, and went back. Picked up FF for the flight since that area can be busy, told the controller we were going to the monument via the corridor, loop around, and come back home. As we're half way around the monument, a new controller pops up on frequency and asks... "Cessna XXXXX, whatcha' dooooin'?" Made us laugh, but I suppose nobody actually told her what we were up to.
 
I often wonder how much information approach controllers handoff between each other when I'm just flying local with FF. Often times the next controller has me repeat my destination or asks me where I'm going. I'm guessing they just don't key it in on my initial request?

I can't say I've ever had to repeat my destination flying IFR...
 
I often wonder how much information approach controllers handoff between each other when I'm just flying local with FF. Often times the next controller has me repeat my destination or asks me where I'm going. I'm guessing they just don't key it in on my initial request?

I can't say I've ever had to repeat my destination flying IFR...

Most controllers will either enter what reliant information they can in the scratch pad, which is limited to two sets of three characters. You can pretty much only do destination with that. At my TRACON we typically tell the receiving controller all the details. Having said that, with some people its like talking to your spouse when they're engrossed in their favorite TV show. A few grunts and affirmative mumbles followed by We never discussed this! an hour later.
 
I've filed direct to somewhere a couple of states away and been "cleared as filed" (always nice!), and after checking in, ATC has asked me, for example, "what's your on course heading for S-A-V?" Had to laugh at that, then told them my on course heading "for Savannah." (This was leaving a grass strip in WV, picking up clearance in the air when high enough.)
 
I've filed direct to somewhere a couple of states away and been "cleared as filed" (always nice!), and after checking in, ATC has asked me, for example, "what's your on course heading for S-A-V?" Had to laugh at that, then told them my on course heading "for Savannah." (This was leaving a grass strip in WV, picking up clearance in the air when high enough.)

I've had that happen twice on an IFR flight plan. I figured they just didn't want to check for themselves.:dunno:
 
Sometimes the strip doesn't totally make it over. In Northern California, I got asked so many times I now just include the destination with my checkin everytime their name changes. I'd say 1/10 actually thank me for giving them the destination.
 
Checking in with FF or on an IFR plan I always give my N number, altitude, next waypoint and/or destination. Controllers really appreciate it. Helps in the busy airspace around here.
 
Just yesterday, descending before the Houston class Bravo, the exchange went something like that:
- "Mooney Five Hotel Whiskey, expect ILS 15R" (at KIAH, I assumed)
- "Houston Approach, our destination is Hooks, Five Hotel Whiskey" (KDWH)
- "Mooney Five Hotel Whiskey, right you are, it says so right here on your strip. In that case, descend and maintain 3,000, expect 17R"
- "Much better, thank you, down to 3,000 and expect 17R, Five Hotel Whiskey"

These things happen. :)
 
Just asked about this. You flight info definitely has your destination on there. More than likely the controller is unfamiliar with the destination identifier and is just curious where it is. They have the ability to look up any identifier on their computer but were probably just too lazy and wanted to ask you.

This is usually the reason . . .NY Approach was always interested in the little podunk airports I'd be flying to when IFR @ 6000 heading southbound - once we got the Comanche is was always 73J/ARW but in the Viking sometimes we'd go to SFQ, ISO, CPC even ILM or CRE = they knew all the airline identfiers but they were curious about the little airports - one guy who always seemed to work Sat am used to work the Hilton Head tower and was wistful about area when we'd fly to Beaufort - finally - I just sent him a few crab cakes and a tray of shrimp . . .

I never seemed to have a problem with NY approach after that
 
Sometimes the strip doesn't totally make it over. In Northern California, I got asked so many times I now just include the destination with my checkin everytime their name changes. I'd say 1/10 actually thank me for giving them the destination.

Happens even here in SoCal - I was on an IFR flight plan into Montgomery in San Diego once and I'm zipping along in a descent to 3300 in bright sunshine but there's a 800' ceiling at Montgomery and the controller comes on and start berating me [nicely] for not filing IFR he's busy working 2 frequencies etc etc etc . . .

I waited til he was done and used my reg and said:" departed Bracket IFR."

There was a pause - and then comes back 'oh yes, I see that. I just wasted more time complaining that it would have taken me to put you in if I needed to - sorry about that"

I"m sure most Indian traffic they handle is VFR . . . .
 
Yep happens so often in NorCal I also check in with, type, N number, altitude, VFR, and destination,
 
I'm in the middle of my IFR training and can also confirm this happens with NorCal often. With each new controller it's like groundhog day.
 
ATC must be on the lookout for me. On my last trip yesterday IFR from Long Beach to Scottsdale, I was asked no less than 3 times by three different controllers to say destination.

And then, to cap it off, Luke Approach near the end tells me 'turn left, heading 030, vectors for Deer Valley'.......but I'm not going to Deer Valley!
 
I've had this happen 3 times in the last couple weeks while flying IFR. Each time was a different facility, some Approach and some Center. I'll be flying along over halfway through or nearing the end of an IFR flight and the controller will ask me to 'say destination'. Any ideas why? Isn't that on the strip they have? Is there a computer glitch affecting the ATC computer system recently?

Had this happen to me twice last week. It's even better when you're in the soup, then they ask your position :confused:
 
Had this happen to me twice last week. It's even better when you're in the soup, then they ask your position :confused:

I think I would ask them (politely) - "Don't you have the strip" or something like that. Under IFR, they really should know where you're going. Not knowing seems somehow "unacceptable".
 
Checking in with FF or on an IFR plan I always give my N number, altitude, next waypoint and/or destination. Controllers really appreciate it. Helps in the busy airspace around here.

Yep happens so often in NorCal I also check in with, type, N number, altitude, VFR, and destination,

Are you all talking about on initial call-up or each check-in after a handoff? Seems superfluous to offer that information on a handoff if they don't ask for it.
 
I think I would ask them (politely) - "Don't you have the strip" or something like that. Under IFR, they really should know where you're going. Not knowing seems somehow "unacceptable".

Remember, controllers are often multi-tasking to the extreme. Sometimes it's just faster and easier to say "N123YZ say destination" and you respond with "destination XYZ, 123YZ". Don't make their life harder by getting sassy with them.

That advice also applies to lots of other things that we don't always understand why they're asking or doing.
 
I think I would ask them (politely) - "Don't you have the strip" or something like that. Under IFR, they really should know where you're going. Not knowing seems somehow "unacceptable".

Respectfully I disagree. If I've got 15 plus airplanes on frequency going every which way watching three or more potential conflicts, I might not be able to look away from the radar scope for 60 seconds and determine which one of the 40 flight plans sitting next to me is yours.

Even at times when I'm not that busy there could be other problems with me accessing your strip. In most busier facilities the strips don't print next to the controller, they print at a Flight Data position, which requires a person to organize and distribute the strips. If that person is busy, say assisting with an emergency on another sector, well, say destination please.
 
Ok, I see what you're saying. What facilities have eliminated the paper strips in favor of electronic? Is that for centers only?
 
Ok, I see what you're saying. What facilities have eliminated the paper strips in favor of electronic? Is that for centers only?

I believe PHX tower is the only non center facility with electronic strip capability. That was as of last year from a friend at PHX and only a test run. I wouldn't be surprised if I don't see electronic strips ten years from now. The flight data computer for example is a Commodore 64 era piece of equipment. If pilots had avionics on our equipment refresh time scale you'd all be raving about LORAN in multiple threads.
 
Had this happen to me twice last week. It's even better when you're in the soup, then they ask your position :confused:

"Say position" could be a loss of radar contact, at least temporarily.
 
Respectfully I disagree. If I've got 15 plus airplanes on frequency going every which way watching three or more potential conflicts, I might not be able to look away from the radar scope for 60 seconds and determine which one of the 40 flight plans sitting next to me is yours.



Even at times when I'm not that busy there could be other problems with me accessing your strip. In most busier facilities the strips don't print next to the controller, they print at a Flight Data position, which requires a person to organize and distribute the strips. If that person is busy, say assisting with an emergency on another sector, well, say destination please.

If you are working 15 planes and one is enroute passing through, why do you care what airport they are going?

IOW, when I'm eastbound near Thermal on an airway why would LA Center really care what airport I'm landing at in the Phoenix area?
 
I was asked my destination today an approach controller:

"Romeo Delta Uniform. I think it's a small, private strip."
 
If you are working 15 planes and one is enroute passing through, why do you care what airport they are going?

IOW, when I'm eastbound near Thermal on an airway why would LA Center really care what airport I'm landing at in the Phoenix area?

How do you know it is an overflight passing through without the flight plan info? The airplane could just as easily be landing at an airport within my airspace or to a nearby airport that will require me to issue descents and make coordination.

As far as LA Center, I'm not out that way, nor have I ever worked in a center so I really don't know.
 
How do you know it is an overflight passing through without the flight plan info? The airplane could just as easily be landing at an airport within my airspace or to a nearby airport that will require me to issue descents and make coordination.

That is the heart of my question. In this day and age, how is it possible that when I am in the system on a previously filed IFR flight plan, that the controller has no idea where I'm going and if that is the case, they must not be sure of my routing either.

That blows my mind. What would the controller do if I had a radio problem and never checked in? Lost comms I'm expected to follow my clearance.....but you seem to be saying the controller may not have a clue where I am going or how I'm supposed to get there.

That seems messed up.
 
That is the heart of my question. In this day and age, how is it possible that when I am in the system on a previously filed IFR flight plan, that the controller has no idea where I'm going and if that is the case, they must not be sure of my routing either.

That blows my mind. What would the controller do if I had a radio problem and never checked in? Lost comms I'm expected to follow my clearance.....but you seem to be saying the controller may not have a clue where I am going or how I'm supposed to get there.

That seems messed up.


I think I haven't done a good job of explaining things on our end and how this happens.

Other than quiet periods or times of low staffing we will have a dedicated flight data controller who places the strips at the correct scope. Not having a strip isn't common, however. Typically the strips aren't posted to the sector individually as they print. Most controllers will allow 5 minutes of strips print before posting for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, strips print when an aircraft is 30 minutes from the boundary or proposed to depart, so unless someone is departing from an airport on the edge of our airspace headed for us, the controller will have the strip. Secondly, every single time center checks a route on an aircraft we get a brand new strip. On average I'd say every airline arrival results in 6 printed strips. You can have a pile of 25 strips and only 3 or 4 be useful. Rather than walk each of those 25 strips individually only to find 22 of the are duplicates and waste 22 trips, most controllers play go fish with the pile and then post the few good strips.

Another reason could be a trainee on flight data not having the best grasp on the airspace. The guy two scopes down probably has the strip, but just asking the pilot is easier than me shouting at a scared trainee to go fetch it for me.

Probably the most common reason is when we're short and the supervisor is also working data. TMU calls, something entered in the daily log, forgot to give someone a time to relieve the guy on arrival, next thing you know they're may behind on strips. Same deal with the trainee, just easier to ask the pilot rather than have the supervisor hang up on the tower and find the strip.

If we're OPS normal, your routing isn't normally a problem to a terminal controller. I see the plane going, say, northbound at an assigned altitude and I use altitude to provide separation. Unless your flight plan involved a 45 degree or greater turn off a fix, it probably doesn't matter much to me.

Now in your NORDO situation, I'll be shouting to the trainee/supe/data guy to get me the routing ASAP which takes 10 seconds.

Its the finest in early 80's technology!
 
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