Clearance through LM or call approach on phone

[Topper]

Question for the controllers. I am at a small non towered field about 15 miles from a class C. I can't get cd or approach on the ground. There is a phone number listed for approach to obtain clearance, but it is disconnected. They give me a number to cancel on the ground if unable in the air. My question is do the local controllers prefer that I get clearance and release through LM or would they prefer I call a local number?

FYI, I am close to taking my IFR check ride. I am flying vfr today and will ask in the air if they have time for a question. Just wondered what the controllers on here think.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[TMetzinger]

Suggest you call the approach facility and ask them? I'm pretty sure there's a guy there whose job includes this sort of customer service. At my home approach facility one of the Quality Assurance folks is the "ambassador" to the GA community.

Edit: If there's a number published for clearance delivery in the AFD, it shouldn't be disconnected. Either they AFD needs to be updated or the line needs to be fixed.

 

[Velocity173]

If the weather allows, calling in the air is what I preferred. Airport doesn't get shut down and it takes only a few seconds to issue your clearance. I won't recommend that to you because there are several on POA who will cite examples where it is unsafe (RMG BE-400).

Phone ATC or FSS really doesn't matter. Personally I think it's easiest getting it directly "from the horses mouth" myself. No go between with FSS.

 

[poadeleted20]

Question for the controllers. I am at a small non towered field about 15 miles from a class C. I can't get cd or approach on the ground. There is a phone number listed for approach to obtain clearance, but it is disconnected. They give me a number to cancel on the ground if unable in the air.

I'd try using that number to pick up my clearance, as it's probably the replacement for the listed number that was disconnected.

Beyond that, I can't speak for the controllers, but I suspect they prefer the method that gets the plane in the air the fastest after being released, and that's always going to be the direct phone number, not a telephone relay through LockMart. From my pilot perspective, that also shortens the time I spend hanging on the phone waiting for the clearance.

 

[poadeleted20]

If the weather allows, calling in the air is what I preferred. Airport doesn't get shut down and it takes only a few seconds to issue your clearance. I won't recommend that to you because there are several on POA who will cite examples where it is unsafe (RMG BE-400).

It can be done safely, but only if you have a solid gold VFR alternative and willingness to use it in case for any number of reasons the airborne pickup doesn't work in "a few seconds" with a "cleared as filed". That's where those guys in the Beechjet failed. Here's the report on that one.

Phone ATC or FSS really doesn't matter. Personally I think it's easiest getting it directly "from the horses mouth" myself. No go between with FSS.

Agree completely. Faster, too.

 

[MarkZ]

I would call the ATC facility and ask them the best number to call to obtain a clearance while holding short of the active runway. At my facility, we prefer either an airborne clearance (if weather conditions permit) or a call directly to our FD coordinator (sorry flhrci, FD = flight data). We prefer the call when ready for departure, not while sitting on the ramp.

If you call flight service, they will call the appropriate facility and forward the clearance. Since you go through a middle man, it could take longer.

 

[poadeleted20]

At my facility, we prefer either an airborne clearance (if weather conditions permit) or a call directly to our FD coordinator (sorry flhrci, FD = flight data). We prefer the call when ready for departure, not while sitting on the ramp.

If I could be certain that I'd get "radar contact, cleared as filed" every time I call airborne, I'd be happy to do that. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen often enough to rely on it. Likewise, if I got "cleared as filed, you are released" every time I called from the #1 ready to go position, I'd be happy to do that, too. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen often enough to rely on it.

The reality is that I too often get different routings, or significant delays, and being airborne or sitting at the hold short line with the engine running is not the place to get those. I'd much rather call before start to find out what my route will be and what sort of delay I might have, then get a release when I call from the hold short line. That may not be the most convenient system for ATC, but when I'm strapped into the running plane and they're in a swivel chair, I cannot put their convenience ahead of my operational concerns. I'm perfectly happy with a "hold for release" clearance rather than insisting on a long void time, but it makes things a lot safer for me if I have my routing and any takeoff delay information before engine start. It's a big issue for those renting by Hobbs time, too, as they may be paying $3/minute for sitting there waiting for a release or reprogramming their route.

 

[MarkZ]

My response was only in relation to the OP's question. He asked what do I prefer. As an air traffic controller, I prefer that the pilot call me when holding short (and ready for departure) or airborne. Any other operation requires shuttering an airport for at least ten minutes, an eternity in ATC. When that kind of timeframe becomes mandatory (and estimated arrivals become relevant), the easier and more efficient operation calls for a lengthy departure delay in lieu of an airborne arrival delay.

As a pilot, I have the benefit of knowing what a controller will expect. I also research the AFD, preferred routes, and finally utilize the route function on ForeFlight to plan my IFR routing. But, just in case, I hold onto a pen and paper when I call ATC for my IFR clearance and release after completing my departure checklist.

As an aside, I have had aircraft call me 10-15 minutes prior to departure for a clearance. Though I won't issue an IFR clearance, I will advise the pilot if there is new routing to expect.

 

[Reedster]

Unless it is below basic VFR. I always pick up my clearance in the air from Chicago TRACON. They may have a routing change, but 99% of the time the clearance is the same:

Cleared to xxx, via radar vectors, (first fix), then as filed. Fly heading xx.

As long as you know what first fix to file to get out, then it is pretty simple. You get vectored in the stream of all the area traffic.

If it is IFR, I phonel directly into the TRACON after my run up and am ready to go. I generally have my clearance and am on my way within minutes.

It works very well no matter how busy they are. However I do know that other areas do have different procedures. I agree with Mark, that this is the best way here in Chicago.

 

[poadeleted20]

My response was only in relation to the OP's question. He asked what do I prefer. As an air traffic controller, I prefer that the pilot call me when holding short (and ready for departure) or airborne. Any other operation requires shuttering an airport for at least ten minutes, an eternity in ATC.

I don't see how the airport is shuttered any longer when you issue a "hold for release" clearance before the airplane is started followed by a release when #1/ready to go than if the entire clearance is read at that point. Further, it gives you more "heads up" time to sequence the departure in with the arrivals. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[poadeleted20]

Unless it is below basic VFR. I always pick up my clearance in the air from Chicago TRACON. They may have a routing change, but 99% of the time the clearance is the same:

Given the congested area over which you are launching, I'd think it would have to be a good bit better than "basic VFR" (i.e., 1000-3) before you could take off legally under VFR without violating 91.119 while you're waiting for the clearance at 500 AGL. I'd think a 2000 foot ceiling would be about the least that would work.

 

[Henning]

Question for the controllers. I am at a small non towered field about 15 miles from a class C. I can't get cd or approach on the ground. There is a phone number listed for approach to obtain clearance, but it is disconnected. They give me a number to cancel on the ground if unable in the air. My question is do the local controllers prefer that I get clearance and release through LM or would they prefer I call a local number?

FYI, I am close to taking my IFR check ride. I am flying vfr today and will ask in the air if they have time for a question. Just wondered what the controllers on here think.

Thanks,

Jim

Use that number and report the error in the AFM.

 

[MarkZ]

I don't see how the airport is shuttered any longer when you issue a "hold for release" clearance before the airplane is started followed by a release when #1/ready to go than if the entire clearance is read at that point. Further, it gives you more "heads up" time to sequence the departure in with the arrivals. Is there something I'm missing?

Issuing a hold for release instruction with an IFR departure clearance does not shut down the airport to IFR operations.

As for "heads up" time, that can hurt more than it helps. I'll use an example I learned first hand, about a week after I certified on my first sectors at the TRACON.

A Hawker departure informed me he would be ready in 15 minutes, and wanted to copy his clearance while waiting for passengers on the ramp. I wanted to "help." I read his IFR clearance and issued a hold for release instruction knowing that he'd likely depart in 15 minutes.

That he'd "likely" depart. Nothing there says he has to.

In accordance with Murphy's Law, 15 minutes later a BeechJet checked on arriving at the same airport. I began vectoring the BeechJet for an ILS approach rather than a visual, thinking the Hawker would call me in any second. Turned out the Hawker stood me up as I cleared the BeechJet for the approach. I tried raising the Hawker on our RCO, nothing. Now I had another concern: the Hawker's flight plan will soon time out of the computer system, thus deleting the flight plan.

Because I had issued an IFR clearance, I had to amend the proposed departure time every few minutes to ensure the flight plan . There was no "expiration time" for the clearance, and I was starting to wonder how long I would have to amend this aircraft's proposal time.

Seventy minutes later, I got my answer as the Hawker called holding short of the runway, ready for departure.

I don't issue hold for release instructions to aircraft who aren't yet ready for departure. I'll gladly relay any routing changes, but I withhold issuing the IFR clearance until the pilot informs me he or she is ready to depart.

 

[poadeleted20]

I don't issue hold for release instructions to aircraft who aren't yet ready for departure. I'll gladly relay any routing changes, but I withhold issuing the IFR clearance until the pilot informs me he or she is ready to depart.

In a land where "an eye for an eye" is law, everyone ends up blind. If I treated every controller badly just because one controller had treated me badly, we'd be in trouble.

 

[MarkZ]

In a land where "an eye for an eye" is law, everyone ends up blind. If I treated every controller badly just because one controller had treated me badly, we'd be in trouble.

I completely agree! Both as a controller, and as a pilot. Good thing too, because we are all "pulling on the same oar"...