PA-28 crashes enroute to Durango, CO

*looks at post*
*looks at picture in linked article*
*Looks back at post*
*looks back at picture in linked article*

uhh.......
 
Looking at the Nexrad the last couple of days, I'm going with ice.

RIP
 
Interesting that two CAP pilots flew into winter storm conditions to find the plane.
 
Interesting that two CAP pilots flew into winter storm conditions to find the plane.



I highly doubt that. Or, they were cap members, but not flying for CAP. Either way, CAP is not going into anything other than solid VFR.
 
I highly doubt that. Or, they were cap members, but not flying for CAP. Either way, CAP is not going into anything other than solid VFR.

Just another example of ignorant reporting. The original article, not Unit74.
 
I highly doubt that. Or, they were cap members, but not flying for CAP. Either way, CAP is not going into anything other than solid VFR.

You can do electronic searches in IMC. It's easier VFR, but only because you can maneuver more. You can get a ground team close enough in open country from several thousand AGL.

Visual searches obviously don't work except in VMC and at altitudes around 1000 AGL. And they generally require a crew of three. Electronic searches can be done with two.

A search without the DF in IMC is useless, so this was NOT two CAP members in their own plane.
 
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You can do electronic searches in IMC. It's easier VFR, but only because you can maneuver more. You can get a ground team close enough in open country from several thousand AGL.

Visual searches obviously don't work except in VMC and at altitudes around 1000 AGL. And they generally require a crew of three. Electronic searches can be done with two.

A search without the DF in IMC is useless, so this was NOT two CAP members in their own plane.

Sure, no problem filing from a-b for an over flight. Asking a controller to vector you from here to there or flying grids in IMC? Even worse, winter weather? Not gonna happen. Not by ATC and def. not by the squadron.

We were grounded for several days even though commercial flights were reporting the ELT. Tough to chew on, but it is what it is.

Also, filing IFR to a location where VMC exists wouldn't be a problem.
 
Man that sucks. I wonder if he had any weather briefings. He flew that bad boy right into a mess. The radar info seems to indicated he was trying to get lower to stay VMC, with rising terrain in front of him.
 
Man that sucks. I wonder if he had any weather briefings. He flew that bad boy right into a mess. The radar info seems to indicated he was trying to get lower to stay VMC, with rising terrain in front of him.
I'm wondering if that was the case, or if he was intentionally flying IMC and ice is what forced him down...

Unfortunately, in the prelim, they only note the wx an hour after they found the wreckage and not what it was when the crash occured.
 
I'm wondering if that was the case, or if he was intentionally flying IMC and ice is what forced him down...

Unfortunately, in the prelim, they only note the wx an hour after they found the wreckage and not what it was when the crash occured.

I don't see an indication of date with the weather reports, just times. So while it is somewhat ambiguous, I suspect they are from the time the aircraft crashed since they match up fairly well.
 
Interesting that two CAP pilots flew into winter storm conditions to find the plane.

Yeah, I wonder what they meant by that. No CAP planes are rated for FIKIC (at least in NC), so they didn't fly into ice or snow.

I'm guessing they flew in IFR conditions with above freezing temperatures, but haven't heard anything else yet.
 
Yeah, I wonder what they meant by that. No CAP planes are rated for FIKIC (at least in NC), so they didn't fly into ice or snow.

I'm guessing they flew in IFR conditions with above freezing temperatures, but haven't heard anything else yet.

Flying into snow is generally no big deal. Ice? yes, very bad, no argument there. Snow, no problem.
 
Reason 1 for a 406/GPS ELT.

He should have flown into that mess, but I can't help but think if they had a 406 sending lat/lon, ground crews could have been sent out right away regardless of IMC :dunno:

Also freezing fog, anything with freezing in it is bad news, even for FIKI aircraft.
 
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These kind of things baffle me. SE Piper, winter, serious clouds, low vis, snow, patchy fog, night, with a GF on board. First go at it turned around.

At what point does it sink in? Does it ever sink in? So very sad, and needless. Nothing in Durango is that important. Reminds me of that woman in Eagle county in the Lear a few years back with the little kid.
 
Almost all ice accidents in New Mexico that I hear about occur somewhere at or south from Clines Corners. They even have a standalone meteostation there, not attached to an airport - just like at La Veta pass - because of this issue.

It's not limited to PPs without IR. A few days ago a FedEx Caravan crashed at landing in Rosewell. He was iced up and forgot that stall speed was much higher, so stalled it before flaring. Fortunately it was low enough and the pilot wasn't killed.
 
Sure, no problem filing from a-b for an over flight. Asking a controller to vector you from here to there or flying grids in IMC? Even worse, winter weather? Not gonna happen. Not by ATC and def. not by the squadron.

We were grounded for several days even though commercial flights were reporting the ELT. Tough to chew on, but it is what it is.

Also, filing IFR to a location where VMC exists wouldn't be a problem.

So.. The CAP cannot conduct ground searches with an active ELT going off...:dunno:......:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:
 
Read the first part of the report too... fatigue is likely a factor here as well. He did a LOT of flying that day, then well into the night and early morning. Decision making does not improve with fatigue.
 
Read the first part of the report too... fatigue is likely a factor here as well. He did a LOT of flying that day, then well into the night and early morning. Decision making does not improve with fatigue.


Not when gravity wins EVERY time...:nonod::nonod:.....:no:...:sad::sad::sad::sad:
 
So.. The CAP cannot conduct ground searches with an active ELT going off...:dunno:......:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:
CAP cannot conduct a ground search unless authorized by the appropriate authorities. And if the weather and terrain is inhospitable, then air search is the only option.
 
Almost all ice accidents in New Mexico that I hear about occur somewhere at or south from Clines Corners. They even have a standalone meteostation there, not attached to an airport - just like at La Veta pass - because of this issue.

It's not limited to PPs without IR. A few days ago a FedEx Caravan crashed at landing in Rosewell. He was iced up and forgot that stall speed was much higher, so stalled it before flaring. Fortunately it was low enough and the pilot wasn't killed.

I iced up one night in a C-414 going from Albuquerque to Gallup. I did one approach trying to get into Gallup then I diverted to Farmington. I wasn't thrilled about a missed approach with ice. The boots were working as normal for a C-414.... just breaking up the ice, not removing it.

At Farmington, I kept my speed up, 20 knots faster than normal for the ILS. I never flared, I just leveled off about a foot above the pavement and started reducing power. As soon as the airspeed started to bleed off, the tail stalled and I made a rather hard landing. No warning at all, the yoke just lost all pressure feel and the plane just fell onto the runway.

I have lots of icing experience from my Alaska days, but this was new to me.
 
Plus, from the prelim report it showed some drama or confusion with the midnight refuel at Lamesa TX, t/o and travel for 30 min, and return to Lamesa for who knows what? Pilot topped off again and headed out at 1:40 AM to fly thru a well publicized winter system in central NM.
The pilot, a 46 y/o ER Doc, was in a vacation gear loaded, non turbo 180 Hp plane headed to a mountain pass in the dark with terrain higher than the first cruising altitude noted. His 22 y/o girlfriend was quite beautiful. This was an awful tragedy.
This same weather system iced the whole country up out here last week. That whole Vaughn and Clines Corner area is about 7000 ft elevation flatlands known for poor travelling conditions in winter weather.
 
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