Crash at GAI (Gaithersburg, MD)

we used to have V-tailed doctor killers now we have VLJ doctor killers

bound to happen
 
Damn.

Well the pilot stereotyping makes some of us feel better about ourselves I guess.

And the "we don't know what happened yet or who was at fault" is a rational reaction.

But right now, this is not much different than a driver ramming into a mom and her 2 kids on a sidewalk. No, actually they didn't even go out - they were in their home.

Nothing good, very bad, very sad.
 
Bill Watson said:
Damn.

Well the pilot stereotyping makes some of us feel better about ourselves I guess.

And the "we don't know what happened yet or who was at fault" is a rational reaction.

But right now, this is not much different than a driver ramming into a mom and her 2 kids on a sidewalk. No, actually they didn't even go out - they were in their home.

Nothing good, very bad, very sad.
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And never saw it coming... Just a wall of flames..

God rest their souls...:sad::sad:
 
Re: Phenom 100 crash at GAI (Gaithersburg, MD)

Icing is unlikely. I looked at the balloon sounding for 12Z at nearby KIAD, and it looks like a single thin layer of clouds.
 
Overcast at 3,200. I doubt it was icing at 400msl.

I just watched a video on facebook that I wish I could unwatch. Someone driving by at the time walking around with their cell phone camera, before the FD even arrives. The house that got hit first was completely on fire everywhere. The fuselage had kept going an was actually at the second house, which had very little fire. He had close up video of the aircraft in detail. To include what was left of the occupants. Not pleasant. Something I don't miss about not being a FF/EMT anymore is that.
 
Extremely sad situation. My heart goes out to the perished children, their mother, and the families of the victims. My heart breaks.
 
Shall we just ignore the pirep of a significant number of birds in the area or any other possible cause and jump right to bashing the pilot in good ol' PoA fashion?

He's dead, so let's pile it on.
 
3393RP said:
Shall we just ignore the pirep of a significant number of birds in the area or any other possible cause and jump right to bashing the pilot in good ol' PoA fashion?

He's dead, so let's pile it on.
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He killed three noncombatants hang his corpse from a lightpole.
 
3393RP said:
Shall we just ignore the pirep of a significant number of birds in the area or any other possible cause and jump right to bashing the pilot in good ol' PoA fashion?

He's dead, so let's pile it on.
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But he crashed a plane AND had a previous incident. Clearly he's at fault now. No need to even launch the NTSB or waste time with investigating.

Seriously, makes you wonder. If any previous incident makes you a menace if anything else ever happens to you maybe we should just clip pilots wings the very first time they make a mistake or do something less than perfect. I mean, what's the point of going on if the rest of your career you an 'obviously bad pilot' should ANYTHING happen to you?

The plane could have been hit by a meteor for all we know yet people have already convicted him because he crashed before...and does anyone even know what the cause of THAT was?

I dunno, it could turn out the guy is a train wreck of a pilot...but can't we at least give the dead guy some benefit of the doubt until some facts roll in? I try to bias positive and be disappointed when proven otherwise.
 
What percentage of accidents are pilot error? Well he is at least that likely to be at fault, maybe add a few points for having a prior. If you die in a plane it is your fault, and the world is going to judge you.
 
Bummer, from the description of the accident, I'm interested to see the NTSB report. Something sounds like it broke.
 
Usually a lurker here. Here's 0.2 cents, which doesn't mean much at this point because theres very little info on what went on. If i had to guess, he lost an engine (bird strike), possibly went full power on the other to try and go around, but was in too dirty of a configuration and either had a Vmc encounter and rolled, or stalled/spun into the houses. Apparently the clouds weren't think enough for ice and there's a witness saying he was fighting the plane to maintain altitude, leveling off, losing some altitude, then leveling off again. Not sure how credible the witness is though.
 
ClimbnSink said:
What percentage of accidents are pilot error? Well he is at least that likely to be at fault, maybe add a few points for having a prior. If you die in a plane it is your fault, and the world is going to judge you.
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That line of logic would also apply to cars, trucks, buses, trains etc.
 
flyboy595 said:
Usually a lurker here. Here's 0.2 cents, which doesn't mean much at this point because theres very little info on what went on. If i had to guess, he lost an engine (bird strike), possibly went full power on the other to try and go around, but was in too dirty of a configuration and either had a Vmc encounter and rolled, or stalled/spun into the houses. Apparently the clouds weren't think enough for ice and there's a witness saying he was fighting the plane to maintain altitude, leveling off, losing some altitude, then leveling off again. Not sure how credible the witness is though.
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Doesn't the Phenom have fuselage mounted engines? I'm not sure you can get into a Vmc roll with one, although if he was on a rudder and uncoordinated when he stalled it could have dropped a wing into a spin.
 
ClimbnSink said:
What percentage of accidents are pilot error? Well he is at least that likely to be at fault, maybe add a few points for having a prior. If you die in a plane it is your fault, and the world is going to judge you.
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The vast majority. Most of the time if you die in a plane you have culpability in the event.
 
Nice to see Greg is still a presumptive jerk that could care less about facts, evidence, or due process. I don't generally wish ill-will upon others. But I really hope ClimbnSink gets in a crash so we can all talk about him.
 
O.K., no I don't know what happened. Looking at the guy's bio it seems he had a lot of irons in the fire BESIDES piloting planes. He has flown for a long time, and got this accident plane 2 years ago or so. One could start with Recency of experience and hours in this plane.

Birds or geese taking out both engines? Possible, we shall see. That flight recorder will be deciphered soon. Most of the time birds and waterfowl are in the low end, <1000 AGL. Yes I have seen the reports of the mallard at 18,000 feet.

This accident will play out in court for years.
 
Henning said:
The vast majority. Most of the time if you die in a plane you have culpability in the event.
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esepcially if one has lived thru it before with a recent public incident (2010).....and there are rumors of other off the record events that bent metal also. :goofy::dunno:

Ask yourself....what is the probability of losing both turbine engines?....ok, if one engine is lost this "should be" a very flyable non-event. And, at the very most remote chance two are lost....does that cause the plane to stall/spin outta the sky?
 
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I was just listening to the audio finally and plotting on some maps. The accident aircraft reported a 7 mile straight in, a 6 mile straight in, and 3 mile straight in. Those were the only transmissions from the accident aircraft.

The crash site is about 3/4 of a mile from the touchdown zone along the final approach course. Runway 14 has a VASI. Presuming one follows a 3 degree glidepath, the typical altitude over the crash site would be 200-250ft (I think).

The birds everyone is hearing about were on the runway and taxiway, not in the air. Unless those birds teleported over a mile out and several hundred feet up, the birds mentioned on the radio were not a factor in the accident. Not saying there couldn't have been another unreported goose somewhere else that got sucked into an engine. I'm just saying the birds mentioned on the radio were not a factor, nothing more, nothing less.
 
the first time I read it, they only knew about the 3 on board fatalities. I didn't know about the 3 in the house. That's just so tragic to hear.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Nice to see Greg is still a presumptive jerk that could care less about facts, evidence, or due process. I don't generally wish ill-will upon others. But I really hope ClimbnSink gets in a crash so we can all talk about him.
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Pipe down. It was dry humor in response to #51
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Nice to see Greg is still a presumptive jerk that could care less about facts, evidence, or due process. I don't generally wish ill-will upon others. But I really hope ClimbnSink gets in a crash so we can all talk about him.
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Nice name calling. I haven't presumed anything, just stated the fact that the odds are it was pilot error(that's the facts ma'am) plus possibly a bonus point for having a prior. Not being an insurance actuary I've no idea what odds the prior confers. As far being maligned post death yeah whatever I have done far more dangerous things then fly little airplanes and I've done them in front of live cameras. I hold no illusions to how f'ing up and dying goes. If you think I'm nasty go read the comments section in news stories. Hobby pilots killing a mom and two young kids is no way to make friends. There are two PR angles one is hard cheese world sometimes you'll be walking down the beach and one of our planes falls out of the sky and kills you, or hang the pilot for being a fool. GA community doesn't have the balls to do either properly. Continue on with wishy washy platitudes about safety, you'll all be banned from the skies soon enough.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Hobby pilots killing a mom and two young kids is no way to make friends.
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Yeah, this one will leave a mark, especially once it is widely known that this guy had previously bent metal.
 
I have no problem lambasting someone for screwing up and taking innocent bystanders out with them. It makes us all look bad. However, since I'm not a jerk, I prefer to wait for facts and evidence before doing so. That way I can formulate an intelligent opinion on the matter. Rather than blindly assuming based on nothing, like you do. You have no idea whatsoever how or why this accident happened. But you've already decided it is his fault.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Nice to see Greg is still a presumptive jerk that could care less about facts, evidence, or due process. I don't generally wish ill-will upon others. But I really hope ClimbnSink gets in a crash so we can all talk about him.
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Bad mojo to wish ill will on another pilot. :nono:
 
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Bill Jennings said:
Yeah, this one will leave a mark, especially once it is widely known that this guy had previously bent metal.
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It wouldn't be the first time there was a major kerfuffel over something like this. Remember back in the 70s when we had year round daylight savings time to save energy, and then a drunk ran over a school bus stop full of kids. That outcry from that one event ended it.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I was just listening to the audio finally and plotting on some maps. The accident aircraft reported a 7 mile straight in, a 6 mile straight in, and 3 mile straight in. Those were the only transmissions from the accident aircraft.

The crash site is about 3/4 of a mile from the touchdown zone along the final approach course. Runway 14 has a VASI. Presuming one follows a 3 degree glidepath, the typical altitude over the crash site would be 200-250ft (I think).

The birds everyone is hearing about were on the runway and taxiway, not in the air. Unless those birds teleported over a mile out and several hundred feet up, the birds mentioned on the radio were not a factor in the accident. Not saying there couldn't have been another unreported goose somewhere else that got sucked into an engine. I'm just saying the birds mentioned on the radio were not a factor, nothing more, nothing less.
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If the birds were migratory birds, like Canadian Geese, it is very plausible there was a steady stream of them heading to the airport area. There are waves of them that pass my airport, at pattern altitudes during this time of the year.

As well, Turkey Vultures are common at my airport. We had a plane hit one last year at a fly-in.
 
Marauder said:
If the birds were migratory birds, like Canadian Geese, it is very plausible there was a steady stream of them heading to the airport area. There are waves of them that pass my airport, at pattern altitudes during this time of the year.

As well, Turkey Vultures are common at my airport. We had a plane hit one last year at a fly-in.
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Little nit, I believe they are Canada Geese as in a species, not Canadian as in citizens.
 
In the midst of all this bad news, here is a little bit of faith restored in some of humanity. And for those interested in helping the family. A GoFundMe has been established to help the survivors of the family living in the home that was hit. In only 15 hours, they've raised $88,000.

http://www.gofundme.com/gemmellfamily

At approximately 10:45 am on December 8, 2014, a small jet crashed into a home on Drop Forge Lane in Gaithersburg, Maryland killing the three passengers and three members of the Gemmell Family who were inside of the home.
Marie Gemmell, her son Cole, and infant son, Devin, were in the home and sadly lost their lives during this horrific accident. They are survived by Ken Gemmell and their oldest child, Arabelle.

Please help raise money for the two remaining members of this family who have lost most of their family, their home, and life as they once knew. 100% of the funds raised will be donated to the Gemmell family for funeral expenses and any and all additional expenses they will incur during this time of tragedy.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the Gemmell Family.

Rest Peacefully Marie, Cole, and Devin.
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Odds are pilot error. Same as always. No idea how a Phenom flies engine out, however even a engine failure doesn't always absolve you of pilot error. More importantly understand a mom at home with two kids was killed because of our chosen form of recreation, ****ing about it maybe going against the odds and not being the pilots fault is far jerkier and cold hearted then me suggesting the obvious.
Pedals2Paddles said:
I have no problem lambasting someone for screwing up and taking innocent bystanders out with them. It makes us all look bad. However, since I'm not a jerk, I prefer to wait for facts and evidence before doing so. That way I can formulate an intelligent opinion on the matter. Rather than blindly assuming based on nothing, like you do. You have no idea whatsoever how or why this accident happened. But you've already decided it is his fault.
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Henning said:
Little nit, I believe they are Canada Geese as in a species, not Canadian as in citizens.
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They are not called " Canada Geese". They are called Canadian Geese, at least in my neck of the woods.

R.I.P. To all souls involved in this very sad accident.

Tony
 
Henning said:
It wouldn't be the first time there was a major kerfuffel over something like this. Remember back in the 70s when we had year round daylight savings time to save energy, and then a drunk ran over a school bus stop full of kids. That outcry from that one event ended it.
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You need to work in "kerfuffel" on the next word thread.
Great (weird) word.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Yeah, this one will leave a mark, especially once it is widely known that this guy had previously bent metal.
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Yeah, it could be a big long lasting mark. Hopefully whatever is finally found and done will prevent some future accident.
Geico266 said:
Bad mojo to wish ill will on another pilot. :nono:
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If one has no illusions then there is no bad mojo.
 
VLJ doctor killer

former: V-tailed doctor killer
 
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