Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Marty

[Stache]

As a Designated Mechanic Examiner (DME) myself this is very sad to see this morning. Aviation has enough issues without this happening again like it did in Florida and Texas with other DMEs. I have attached the notice if you know any one effected.

This notice guides Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aviation safety inspectors (ASI) in reexamining persons holding mechanic certificates with airframe and/or powerplant ratings who were tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner (DME) Marty James Simmons of the Anchorage, Alaska Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) area. The reexaminations will ensure that these persons meet the standards of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 65 to hold their certificate and/or rating(s).

The Administrator believes that the competency of the airmen examined by DME Simmons is in question, based on a Special Emphasis Evaluation of a Designee (SEED), and on a subsequent FAA investigation of DME Simmons’ certification activities. The FAA obtained compelling evidence during the investigation, which gave the FAA sufficient reason to doubt the adequacy of tests administered by DME Simmons. To ensure safety in air commerce, these airmen will undergo reexamination of their competency to 49 U.S.C. § 44709 standards.

 

[LDJones]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

That would have to rank as one of the worst notices a certificate holder could ever receive. You studied. You prepared. You passed your examination. And then you're later told "Uhhh....maybe not!" Condolences to those who now have to prepare for a reexamination.

 

[AggieMike88]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Reminds me of criminal law cases for major heinous crimes coming back to trial because a lab tech doesn't hold the credentials he should have and all the physical they handled is tossed out.

 

[deeruck]

Reminds me of criminal law cases for major heinous crimes coming back to trial because a lab tech doesn't hold the credentials he should have and all the physical they handled is tossed out.

Yeah, but in those cases the suspect is given the benefit of the doubt...

 

[Geico266]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Two sides to every story. He may have been just signing people off. That would be very sad indeed. Innocent until proven guilty except by the FAA.

 

[Silvaire]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

In a way it's really complete BS. For one thing this guy was a Designated Mechanic Examiner - designated as such and sanctioned by the FAA. So now these A&P's are supposed to trust the FAA that this new DME is okay and they aren't gonna change their minds about him at some later date too?

Also, given the lengths that an A&P has to go through just to get the authorization to take the tests for the licenses it's unlikely that their skills and knowledge could be based solely on the oral/practical exam. Really, nobody goes through all that and then washes out on the oral. It's more of a formality than anything else.

Thirdly, what about all of the maintenance these guys have signed off from the time they were licensed up to now? I'm pretty sure the FAA doesn't want to open that can of worms.

Maybe there's more to it but it looks like a real cluster F the way they are dealing with it.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Know of a similar situation that happened out west with a DPE.

 

[Henning]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Two sides to every story. He may have been just signing people off. That would be very sad indeed. Innocent until proven guilty except by the FAA.

Really? Try the IRS sometime.

 

[Henning]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

In a way it's really complete BS. For one thing this guy was a Designated Mechanic Examiner - designated as such and sanctioned by the FAA. So now these A&P's are supposed to trust the FAA that this new DME is okay and they aren't gonna change their minds about him at some later date too?

Also, given the lengths that an A&P has to go through just to get the authorization to take the tests for the licenses it's unlikely that their skills and knowledge could be based solely on the oral/practical exam. Really, nobody goes through all that and then washes out on the oral. It's more of a formality than anything else.

Thirdly, what about all of the maintenance these guys have signed off from the time they were licensed up to now? I'm pretty sure the FAA doesn't want to open that can of worms.

Maybe there's more to it but it looks like a real cluster F the way they are dealing with it.

Because it's a 44709 check and that will be done by the FAA, not a designee. From the looks of it it will be a 4, 7, or 10 question oral.

 

[Stache]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

I was a FAA Inspector when the DME issues came out in Florida and again in Texas and in those two case the same kind of testing was performed at the local FSDOs. Where I used to work I performed some of the testing.

The Florida re-testing was worst and many applicants failed to even test and many of the ones that did failed the test. Texas was a little different as some of the applicant could not speak English. I can say this the applicants from the Texas case I re-tested did pass and it was a stressful time for them and should of never happened, but the DME was taking money and not testing in many cases. The FAA could not figure out who really tested and who didn’t. This may be what has happened in this case, but I do not know. So the FAA is making everyone re-test to ensure the mechanics were tested properly. Take note they are only testing the knowledge part and not the practical hands of part of the test.

Now that I am on the other side of the fence again as a DME I take it very serious as I know the FAA is also looking over my shoulder and can sit in on any Oral and Practical (O&P) test I give. As an inspector, I used to check the DMEs I had oversight of often just to ensure everyone was up and up. There is a lot of trust with a designee like a DME or DPE you have to have creditability.

As an inspector, I knew sitting in on a mechanic examination was stressful for the applicant so I would do what was required and leave and come back later after the exam was over to finish up and perform an interview with the applicant.

I don’t know all the details that happened with this DME, but I know it had to be serious for this type of action to happen. What I can say is if an applicant wants to test with me I send them an 18-page document that explains the entire process what is expected of them and what is expected of me as a DME. My O&Ps do take longer than most not because I am more difficult it’s because I cover all the subject areas on a planning sheet I send the FAA in advance.

I spend about 11-hour preparing for each mechanic I test reviewing their documents, personnel interview, and making out a planning testing sheet. In addition, I down load an individual oral test from the FAA database for each applicant. It’s a lot of work on my part to prepare, but when I hand the mechanic their temporary A&P certificate I can say they earned.

This whole DME issue makes all of us in aviation look bad.

 

[SCCutler]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Troubling, but I appreciate your sharing the news, and the perspective.

---


Good to see you on, Stache.

 

[Amttap]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Because it's a 44709 check and that will be done by the FAA, not a designee. From the looks of it it will be a 4, 7, or 10 question oral.

Incorrect. There are 44 subject areas (12 general, 17 airframe and 15 power plant). That's a minimum of 176 questions to a maximum of 440 questions for someone that received both airframe and powerplant ratings from the DME. That's a complete oral test.

 

[Paulie]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Most likely a give me a bunch of money and you will pass kind of guy.

 

[Zeldman]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Disturbing, needless to say. So all the guys needing retesting that have signed off work on planes, are all those planes now deemed unairworthy?

I can see my letter now.

We (FAA) need to retest you on your private pilot certificate because we feel that your DPE may have been lacking in his work 20 years ago. Your private pilot privileges are temporarily suspended until we clear this matter up. Your ATP certificate will not need retesting and is not in question.

 

[Witmo]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

Incorrect. There are 44 subject areas (12 general, 17 airframe and 15 power plant). That's a minimum of 176 questions to a maximum of 440 questions for someone that received both airframe and powerplant ratings from the DME. That's a complete oral test.

I had to "retest" due to an examiner getting greedy and cutting corners on some non-English speaking candidates. I had to take a written test and an oral but they were much abbreviated from the writtens and oral(s) I had originally taken. While I wasn't happy, it wasn't difficult and the impression I had afterwards was that if you couldn't pass this retest, you probably shouldn't be turnin' wrenches. Of course I had only had the certificate for about two years when I got the notice to retest. It might have been different if I had been out of the books for 10.

 

[Stache]

Re: Notice 8900.273 Reexamination of Airmen Tested by Designated Mechanic Examiner Ma

The FAA planning sheets for mechanics oral test has 44 subjects combined areas to test for the airframe and powerplant ratings. There is 24 of these subjects that is considered core elements that must be passed on the first try. What I have found is for the applicant I test and I cannot speak for other DMEs is I will not start an oral and practical test if I think and applicant with fail. I always preform a pre-test interview to see just what an applicant really knows this will only take a few questions to know if someone has prepared or not. This accounts for the high pass rate I have with applicants and accounts for the low number of applicants I test or in some case refuse to test. Being a designee does not mean you are required to test anyone who walks in the door.