Drivers are so bad now the fire trucks and ambulances are stopping

mikea

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
16,975
Location
Lake County, IL
Display Name

Display name:
iWin
Yeah, I'm an old man. I do seem to remember that drivers weren't universally so bad. Like we always stopped for stop signs and emergency vehicles. Not no more.

Elgin firefighters rushing trucks and ambulances to emergencies with their lights flashing and sirens blaring soon will be adding a new step to their repertoire - stopping.

In a few weeks, all Elgin fire trucks and ambulances will be required to come to a complete stop at all red lights and stop signs, no matter what the emergency, Chief Mike Falese said.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=275781

Also in Chicago, police cars will not be allowed to park illegally, even when responding to an emergency.

Welcome to Bizzarroworld.
 
You mean there are places they haven't been doing that for years? Suicidal weirdo's. Back in COS, they've been stopping even when they had the green light.

Police can't park illegally in an emergency? Hmmm...so just who is going to be giving the local cops a ticket? Or do they have to stop, write themselves a ticket then run in to save someone from a shootout?
 
Also in Chicago, police cars will not be allowed to park illegally, even when responding to an emergency.
But they'll continue to park illegally when stopping for donuts! :rofl:

Yes, this is bizarre!
 
You mean there are places they haven't been doing that for years? Suicidal weirdo's. Back in COS, they've been stopping even when they had the green light.

Police can't park illegally in an emergency? Hmmm...so just who is going to be giving the local cops a ticket? Or do they have to stop, write themselves a ticket then run in to save someone from a shootout?

They're supposed to find a legal spot. In some neighborhoods that could be 6 blocks away. I guess they just need to run to where they're needed afterwards.
 
Yeah, I'm an old man. I do seem to remember that drivers weren't universally so bad. Like we always stopped for stop signs and emergency vehicles. Not no more.



Also in Chicago, police cars will not be allowed to park illegally, even when responding to an emergency.

Welcome to Bizzarroworld.

Just moved to the burbs did ya? It has been like that for year, no one stops until the emergency vehicle almost moves you down. Just last week I was at an intersection and saw a police car with its lights flashing form the opposite direction. The numb nut behind started honking when I would not make the left turn on the green arrow I had. So he shoots around me and almost heads on with the cop car.
 
Just moved to the burbs did ya? It has been like that for year, no one stops until the emergency vehicle almost moves you down. Just last week I was at an intersection and saw a police car with its lights flashing form the opposite direction. The numb nut behind started honking when I would not make the left turn on the green arrow I had. So he shoots around me and almost heads on with the cop car.

It's not just the burbs, but yeah.

I was going down the major route when I pulled to the right as the fire truck came with lights and siren in the opposite direction. The yahoo in the pickup who had been riding my bumper (guess he was drafting) hit his horn and drove around me and the guy in front just as the fire truck made a left to go into the driveway we were holding short of. He found out that there was a truck on the road bigger than his.
 
I can see the slowing down/stopping at intersections...but no "illegal" parking during an actual emergency? As an officer that IS one thing I would have risked my job over, that is asinine and will get the city sued when someone dies.
 
What, are you guys nuts! How can anyone hear on a cellphone when those silly sirens are blaring in peoples' ears?!!

:mad:
 
New fire trucks must have the air horns on the bumper so people would hear them better. Yes not many people stop for fire trucks so we need to be extra careful not to get hit.
 
On tonight's (Thursday - 2/1/07) news, they were stating some people were complaining of the red light cameras causing more risks because people slam on their brakes when the light turns yellow.

While that's a ridiculous claim, I've begin taking issue with the red light cameras since I received my first ticket by one. They give a clear view of my car in two pictures. Undeniably, it's me. But, the third picture sized at 1.75" by 3.0" shows a tiny silver spec about the size of one-eighth that of a dime. I'm supposed to trust that is MY vehicle. At the same time, they can't provide an exploded image where my plate can be clearly seen. What's wrong with this picture? Literally!

Oh, you folks mention cell phones... I've been a courier for eleven years. I've watched traffic go from bad to worse and worse during that time in Atlanta. But, our glorious legislature won't outlaw handheld cell phones because what you do in your own vehicle is your own private space and your business. Being on public highways where you can endanger others while talking on a handheld cell phone is irrelevant. This is the same legislature that wrote pickup trucks out of the seat belt law; said clause introduced by a particular law maker who... drove a pickup truck.

I'm convinced if handheld cell phones were outlawed, traffic congestion would ease by at least fifteen percent, probably more.

By the way, given their "logic" about cell phone use... I should be able to fly my own plane whenever I choose, wherever I choose, using the equipment I have within... regardless of weather conditions without filing IFR. Hey, it's my own private space in that airplane! :dunno:
 
On tonight's (Thursday - 2/1/07) news, they were stating some people were complaining of the red light cameras causing more risks because people slam on their brakes when the light turns yellow.

While that's a ridiculous claim, I've begin taking issue with the red light cameras since I received my first ticket by one. They give a clear view of my car in two pictures. Undeniably, it's me. But, the third picture sized at 1.75" by 3.0" shows a tiny silver spec about the size of one-eighth that of a dime. I'm supposed to trust that is MY vehicle. At the same time, they can't provide an exploded image where my plate can be clearly seen. What's wrong with this picture? Literally!

Oh, you folks mention cell phones... I've been a courier for eleven years. I've watched traffic go from bad to worse and worse during that time in Atlanta. But, our glorious legislature won't outlaw handheld cell phones because what you do in your own vehicle is your own private space and your business. Being on public highways where you can endanger others while talking on a handheld cell phone is irrelevant. This is the same legislature that wrote pickup trucks out of the seat belt law; said clause introduced by a particular law maker who... drove a pickup truck.

I'm convinced if handheld cell phones were outlawed, traffic congestion would ease by at least fifteen percent, probably more.

By the way, given their "logic" about cell phone use... I should be able to fly my own plane whenever I choose, wherever I choose, using the equipment I have within... regardless of weather conditions without filing IFR. Hey, it's my own private space in that airplane! :dunno:

I haven't been caught by the red lights cameras, although I've seen cars in front and alongside of me go through and get snapped as I laughed. You know that when the ticket revenue drops they shorten the yellow light time. I'm cpnvinced they have the camera control the yellow because the yellow time gets to be almost random at intersecions with the cameras.

The research has shown that it isn't the holding of the phone that's the problem. It's the attention required for the phone conversation. That fact hasn't stopped the knee-jerks from passing the laws banning hand held phone while driving, as Chicago did, but Chicago also banned fois gras and was working on banning trans fat.

Most of today's population...ya know, the ones that don't know how many cents are in a dollar, can't drive that well when they have only the single task. I'm reminded of how we "stay ahead of the airplane" when I see the guy in front deal with the turn at the intersection or he off ramp - or the ambulance - that came up out of nowhere.

HONK! "HOW RUDE!" I'm ON THE PHONE!!!!"
 
I haven't been caught by the red lights cameras, although I've seen cars in front and alongside of me go through and get snapped as I laughed. You know that when the ticket revenue drops they shorten the yellow light time. I'm cpnvinced they have the camera control the yellow because the yellow time gets to be almost random at intersecions with the cameras.
The tickets are not issued by the municipality where the infraction occured. It is an independent company contracted by the municipality. There is no requrement to pay this. There is no trial and you cannot defend yourself. If I ever get one of these, it will not be paid. The worst that can happen is I get dinged on my credit report as owing the money.

The research has shown that it isn't the holding of the phone that's the problem. It's the attention required for the phone conversation. That fact hasn't stopped the knee-jerks from passing the laws banning hand held phone while driving, as Chicago did, but Chicago also banned fois gras and was working on banning trans fat.

HONK! "HOW RUDE!" I'm ON THE PHONE!!!!"
Seems to me just having a converstaion in the car would have the same effect. I believe the largest danger is dialing the phone or having to dig into a pocket to answer it. Of course, lots of folks have not figured out that driving is a participatory activity either.
 
The tickets are not issued by the municipality where the infraction occured. It is an independent company contracted by the municipality. There is no requrement to pay this. There is no trial and you cannot defend yourself. If I ever get one of these, it will not be paid. The worst that can happen is I get dinged on my credit report as owing the money.

Seems to me just having a converstaion in the car would have the same effect. I believe the largest danger is dialing the phone or having to dig into a pocket to answer it. Of course, lots of folks have not figured out that driving is a participatory activity either.

Au contraine. Chicago has no problem making things law. The red light camera ticket is the same as a parking ticket. You're guility and you will pay. You can take the time off work and ask for an administrative hearing...so you have a chance to have some clout-heavy functional illiterate tell you you're guilty and you will pay.

The red light cameras are paid for by a piece of the $90 ticket action. They're free to the city. As always, it was a no-bid deal of course.

You're right that just having a conversation is just as distracting.

As I've said, even though Chicago was supposed to make an effort to change the policy after a mega-SUV-driving maroon mowed down a 4 year old at a stop sign, Chicago cops do not do traffic stops and haven't for 20 years. That's when stop signs became maybe-slow-down-but-if-you're-in-a-hurry-or-on-the-phone-don't-worry-about-it signs.
 
Last edited:
Au contraine. Chicago has no problem making things law. The red light camera ticket is the same as a parking ticket. You're guility and you will pay. You take the time off work and ask for an administrative hearing...so you have a chance to have some clout-heavy functional illiterate tell you you're guilty and you will pay.
Ah yes, yet another reason to avoid Chicago at all cost.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Also in Chicago, police cars will not be allowed to park illegally, even when responding to an emergency.

Welcome to Bizzarroworld.

You're kidding right? Can Chicago get any stranger?
 
Also in Chicago, police cars will not be allowed to park illegally, even when responding to an emergency.

Welcome to Bizzarroworld.
You're kidding right? Can Chicago get any stranger?

I didn't make the story up. I just had hard time finding it. You can't find old stories using the Sun-Times' search function.

Two Chicago Police cars were towed last week for being illegally parked -- and the department then sent out a memo warning cops not to park in handicapped spots or in front of fire hydrants.

...

First Deputy Supt. Dana Starks warned, "under no circumstances should department vehicles be parked on a fire hydrant or in a handicapped parking space." The drivers will have to pay the towing costs, he said.

"The operator of a department vehicle must be prepared to justify their actions for having parked illegally, even when that action involves their official duties in response to an emergency situation," Starks wrote.

...

"There are circumstances that are going to dictate -- especially in an emergency situation -- where you have no choice but to park the car where you can," Donahue said.

...

Still, some cops wondered if they will have to park their cars blocks from assignments.

"Let's say I have a call that there is a bum in Holy Name Cathedral and he won't leave," said one patrol officer, who asked to remain anonymous. "He is boisterous, but there is no threat of violence. Do I have to park three blocks away and walk?"

...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/226453,CST-NWS-park24.article
 
New fire trucks must have the air horns on the bumper so people would hear them better.

Actually the airhorns and sirens were moved to save the operators from suffering permanant hearing loss.
Eric (Retired FF/EMT-I) What u say?
________
NEXIUM LAWSUITES
 
Last edited:
The tickets are not issued by the municipality where the infraction occured. It is an independent company contracted by the municipality. There is no requrement to pay this. There is no trial and you cannot defend yourself. If I ever get one of these, it will not be paid. The worst that can happen is I get dinged on my credit report as owing the money.

I'm not sure about your state, but in most states what you said is not true. Driving is a privilege, remember? The worst you can get (along with a bad credit report and potential wage garnishment) is a suspended driver's license if you refuse to pay.

As for the original thread - point taken, but in civil liability this has always been true, at least in the states I've worked in. If an emergency vehicle proceeds through a traffic control device and strikes someone else who had the right-of-way other than for the fact that the emergency equipment was operating, the government or ambulance company was usually deemed negligent for some portion of the accident. I always stop and yield when going to an emergency.
 
As for the original thread - point taken, but in civil liability this has always been true, at least in the states I've worked in. If an emergency vehicle proceeds through a traffic control device and strikes someone else who had the right-of-way other than for the fact that the emergency equipment was operating, the government or ambulance company was usually deemed negligent for some portion of the accident. I always stop and yield when going to an emergency.

Actually one of the cool things I've descovered here in PA is that the traffic lights have a detector on them that if strobed at the correct frequancy changes the light to green for the emergancy vehicle.Solves the problem with having to run the light.

Missa
 
Actually one of the cool things I've descovered here in PA is that the traffic lights have a detector on them that if strobed at the correct frequancy changes the light to green for the emergancy vehicle.Solves the problem with having to run the light.

Missa
As I understand it, it's actually an infrared sensor on the signal lights in the intersection where they have an infrared transmitter on the emergency vehicles to trigger it. Dunno if the signal is encoded or it just takes a bunch of IR LEDs to make the signal. There are some hackers who figured out how to duplicate the transmitter so they can get green lights. The word was you could get into serious trouble if you were found with the transmitter, but I suspect that's one more shocking hazard state legislators have to get around to protecting the populace from.

In towns here that have them there is a white spotlight on the lights that turns on to warn you that even if the light stays red for a long time, there's a reason. Not that THAT will stop these same idjits drivers from rolling into the intersection.

I gather that towns like Elgin, where this story came from, don't have the system yet.
 
I have also noticed a lot of FF on the bigger apparatus' are using DC headsets with intercoms.

We have those and they are great. The open cabs (I often ride in the back of ours) are incredibly noisy but there are earphones back there too; no intercom though.

Department policy requires a full stop at all intersections here and in most places I've been. Apparatus drivers are the greatest!
 
Last edited:
The camera got me in Scottsdale, AZ. On the court Notice To Appear, in big red letters, it said, FAILURE TO APPEAR OR PAY FINE WILL RESULT IN A WARRANT FOR YOUR ARREST.

It is Scottsdale city which owns the cameras. While in AZ state recently I read the newspaper which stated that Scottsdale will restart the program
(it was a trial run when I got my ticket). The article also said the city made a $2.1 million PROFIT in the 9 months of the program. This from cameras in only 5 locations.
 
The camera got me in Scottsdale, AZ. On the court Notice To Appear, in big red letters, it said, FAILURE TO APPEAR OR PAY FINE WILL RESULT IN A WARRANT FOR YOUR ARREST.

It is Scottsdale city which owns the cameras. While in AZ state recently I read the newspaper which stated that Scottsdale will restart the program
(it was a trial run when I got my ticket). The article also said the city made a $2.1 million PROFIT in the 9 months of the program. This from cameras in only 5 locations.

It also dramatically reduces accidents and fatalities (from red-light runners anyway) where the cameras are used.
 
The camera got me in Scottsdale, AZ. On the court Notice To Appear, in big red letters, it said, FAILURE TO APPEAR OR PAY FINE WILL RESULT IN A WARRANT FOR YOUR ARREST.

It is Scottsdale city which owns the cameras. While in AZ state recently I read the newspaper which stated that Scottsdale will restart the program
(it was a trial run when I got my ticket). The article also said the city made a $2.1 million PROFIT in the 9 months of the program. This from cameras in only 5 locations.

Scottsdale and AZ are where the cameras were first installed, and the first place where they started shortening the yellow light time to raise the ticket revenue. How exactly does that help safety?
 
Scottsdale and AZ are where the cameras were first installed, and the first place where they started shortening the yellow light time to raise the ticket revenue. How exactly does that help safety?

Again, we don't have them where I live but I've read plenty and drive in Chicago very often. They are almost as effective as marked patrol cars in reducing number of vehicles that run lights (only where their presence is known), with a predictable effect on fatalaties therefrom.

Not sure what the yellow-light overlap matters as long as only vehicles running the red are ticketed. The only profit that matters to me is lives saved - my family was hit broadside proceeding under a green signal about 11 years ago. Thankfully no fatalities but it left a mark.
 
Again, we don't have them where I live but I've read plenty and drive in Chicago very often. They are almost as effective as marked patrol cars in reducing number of vehicles that run lights (only where their presence is known), with a predictable effect on fatalaties therefrom.

Not sure what the yellow-light overlap matters as long as only vehicles running the red are ticketed. The only profit that matters to me is lives saved - my family was hit broadside proceeding under a green signal about 11 years ago. Thankfully no fatalities but it left a mark.

Try to follow...in the extreme case if they make the yellow light time 3 microseconds to drive revenue, any driver who wasn't waiting when the light turned green could be snapped and busted...unless they have psychic powers to know when the red is coming.
 
The research has shown that it isn't the holding of the phone that's the problem. It's the attention required for the phone conversation.

I know the research of which you speak, and I don't buy it.

Yes, attention is required for conversation, be it handheld, hands-free, or simply with pax. But, I think the act of holding the phone up to your face causes a change in focus from far and unidirectional to RIGHT HERE and people no longer percieve what's going on around them.

I base this on two things:
1) My own realizations in the rare instances I drive while talking on a hand-held phone that I'm not paying attention in the right places. With a hands-free, I don't get this at all. I can still easily turn my head and look at the mirrors and I can completely ignore the phone quite easily for a few seconds if the driving situation warrants. Do this with a handheld phone, and you'll drop the phone.

2) The stupid stunts people pull around me can be easily categorized into "*******" and "ignorant." Very nearly 100% of the Ignorant stunts are pulled by people who are holding a phone up to their face while driving. It's worse if they're the type that likes to talk with their hands. :hairraise:

Besides, if it really was as bad to have a conversation period as it was to be talking on a handheld cell...

Seems to me just having a converstaion in the car would have the same effect.

... They'd have outlawed pax by now and we'd all be driving Lean Machines.
 
As I understand it, it's actually an infrared sensor on the signal lights in the intersection where they have an infrared transmitter on the emergency vehicles to trigger it. Dunno if the signal is encoded or it just takes a bunch of IR LEDs to make the signal. There are some hackers who figured out how to duplicate the transmitter so they can get green lights. The word was you could get into serious trouble if you were found with the transmitter, but I suspect that's one more shocking hazard state legislators have to get around to protecting the populace from.

In towns here that have them there is a white spotlight on the lights that turns on to warn you that even if the light stays red for a long time, there's a reason. Not that THAT will stop these same idjits drivers from rolling into the intersection.

I gather that towns like Elgin, where this story came from, don't have the system yet.

Some places have an IR system, and some have the strobe system that Missa mentions.

Here's some info on the IR system: http://www.themirt.com/how.html
 
It also dramatically reduces accidents and fatalities (from red-light runners anyway) where the cameras are used.
The cameras are located on the Hwy 101 loop only. The city can change up or down the speed relative to the posted speed limit which if exceeded will trigger the cameras.

In my case I was caught during a short speed burst doing 11 mph over the posted. I was framed, your Honor, I was simply trying to get away from a knot of stupid ass AZ drivers...to minimize my exposure to risk.
 
I know the research of which you speak, and I don't buy it.

Yes, attention is required for conversation, be it handheld, hands-free, or simply with pax. But, I think the act of holding the phone up to your face causes a change in focus from far and unidirectional to RIGHT HERE and people no longer percieve what's going on around them.

I base this on two things:
1) My own realizations in the rare instances I drive while talking on a hand-held phone that I'm not paying attention in the right places. With a hands-free, I don't get this at all. I can still easily turn my head and look at the mirrors and I can completely ignore the phone quite easily for a few seconds if the driving situation warrants. Do this with a handheld phone, and you'll drop the phone.

2) The stupid stunts people pull around me can be easily categorized into "*******" and "ignorant." Very nearly 100% of the Ignorant stunts are pulled by people who are holding a phone up to their face while driving. It's worse if they're the type that likes to talk with their hands. :hairraise:

Besides, if it really was as bad to have a conversation period as it was to be talking on a handheld cell...



... They'd have outlawed pax by now and we'd all be driving Lean Machines.
Kent, while I will concede that hand-held cell phones can be more distracting than conversations in the car, I still think that the most distracting thing in the vehicle is bickering kids (or worse, kids throwing a temper tantrum). Even worse if one of them is in front! Please, find me a ligislator willing to outlaw having kids in the car! :)
 
Kent, while I will concede that hand-held cell phones can be more distracting than conversations in the car, I still think that the most distracting thing in the vehicle is bickering kids (or worse, kids throwing a temper tantrum). Even worse if one of them is in front! Please, find me a ligislator willing to outlaw having kids in the car! :)

Yeah, but most parents will pull over to swat the kids. I really don't ever have problems with parents.
 
Yeah, but most parents will pull over to swat the kids. I really don't ever have problems with parents.
hmmmm... well, maybe ... :dunno: still to this day remember my dad darn near throwing out his shoulder as he swung a wild backhand that swept the back seat from passenger side to driver side one sweltering hot afternoon driving across South Dakota. Guess we pushed the old man just a might too far that day! He never even slowed down! :D
 
Motorists who roll or blow through stop signs would pay through the nose -- with their money and their time -- under a crackdown advanced Monday by Chicago aldermen moved by the hit-and-run death of a 4-year-old girl in Lincoln Park.

... eighth-grade students from Hawthorne Scholastic Academy reported on results of their study of motorists at the intersection of Cornelia and Halsted, scene of two serious accidents, one of them fatal.

Of 1,291 vehicles observed, the students reported seeing 598 vehicles come to a complete stop, 501 motorists make a rolling stop and 192 more blow through the stop sign entirely.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/244895,cst-nws-stop06a.article
About a year ago I watched the stop sign out the window of a restaurant on my block. It wasn't anywhere near as high as 50% compliance then, but I think it has gotten better since this hit and run happened.
 
Try to follow...in the extreme case if they make the yellow light time 3 microseconds to drive revenue, any driver who wasn't waiting when the light turned green could be snapped and busted...unless they have psychic powers to know when the red is coming.

Understand completely. However, the yellow is never that short. And there is usually overlap between the red and green. But you're right, if it's ridiculously short that is... well... ridiculous.
 
Understand completely. However, the yellow is never that short. And there is usually overlap between the red and green. But you're right, if it's ridiculously short that is... well... ridiculous.

There is no overlap in Chicago and most burbs. The green on the cross street goes the same instant the red in the fornt of you does.

I have been places where there's a 2-3 second pause to let the light runners clear. Not around here.

The yups and taxis will also creep forward on the red until they're halfway into the intersection when the light goes green. Gotta save that 3ms like Big Daddy Don Garlits.
 
There is no overlap in Chicago and most burbs. The green on the cross street goes the same instant the red in the fornt of you does.

I have been places where there's a 2-3 second pause to let the light runners clear. Not around here.

The yups and taxis will also creep forward on the red until they're halfway into the intersection when the light goes green. Gotta save that 3ms like Big Daddy Don Garlits.


FWIW, here in Western Springs/Lagrange, the lights are generally delayed a couple of seconds before switching. Also, we have the "white light," which flashes, so I guess that would be a strobe system.....

Purdue
 
Back
Top