Critique my comms?

tomheinan

tomheinan

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 12, 2014
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Display name:
tom
Student pilot here; I've been at it for just over fifty hours or so, and I've got my pre-solo phase check tomorrow. In addition to poring over copious pages of notes on various regulations and manoeuver configurations, I thought it would be useful to review my comms performance, as I've been told by another instructor in the past that it was a weak point of mine.

To that end, I downloaded and stitched together the relevant bits from my last flight out to the practice area and I'm interested in any feedback for improvement. Audio file here, transcript here.

Specifically: things I should read back that I don't, things I shouldn't repeat that I do, too verbose, not descriptive enough, etc. :)
 
Read the transcript. I see no problems with method. Got the job done clearly and concisely.
 
I might just be KCMA but if I repeat a runway assignment and not give my full call sign they get a bit upset and make me repeat it. I am talking about the transcript with you repeating the runway assignment.
 
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Good job. I have a problem with "with you," as do many on this board. As you gain experience you will begin to limit your readbacks to headings and altitudes (AIM 4-4-7), so to that extent you are verbose, but I honestly have difficulty finding anything remotely wrong.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
 
In my opinion, from what I saw your comm was very good. I tend to agree about the "with you" comments. It's interesting, during my IR training I'd hear these experienced IR pilots and some of their communications were, shall we say, not very good. It would drive my CFII nuts as he was trying to teach me the correct lingo.
 
everyone said:
"with you"
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Yes, my CFI cautioned me against it immediately thereafter as well, suggesting "level at X" instead. I think I must've picked it up listening to various ATC streams, but I can see that it's redundant. Obviously, if you're talking to them, you're with them.
 
tomheinan said:
Yes, my CFI cautioned me against it immediately thereafter as well, suggesting "level at X" instead. I think I must've picked it up listening to various ATC streams, but I can see that it's redundant. Obviously, if you're talking to them, you're with them.
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Bingo
 
Sounded fine, agree with the others, with you isn't needed but isn't a big deal.

Also you don't need to read back squak codes, I'll do it to sometimes, but not needed.
 
I had heard that as well and the way it was described is that when they see your new squawk code that should negate the need for a read back. Same was said about indenting. I tried that a couple times and after selecting the new code the controller asked me if I heard the squawk code as if he was looking for a confirming read back. Go figure
 
You say, "negative contact, we're looking". In my own opinion, "negative contact" is correct and sufficient and "we're looking" is redundant.

"Approach
NorCal N47952, traffic no factor, just keep the Bay Bridge off your left, altitude your discretion outside of Bravo.
Tom
952 Keep the Bay Bridge off the left, altitude our discretion, stay out of Bravo, 952."
I got a little confused here. You read back "stay out of Bravo" but did he ever say that? Or was it implied? He actually simply gave you an altitude advisory, did he not? Maybe I missed something.
 
jnmeade said:
altitude your discretion outside of Bravo.
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The previous call cleared us for VFR navigation, i.e. "you can go where you want horizontally" but we were still bound by the vertical limit imposed by clearance delivery ("at or below 2,000"), so when issued "altitude your discretion outside of Bravo" we were at that point cleared up to 3,000 (the altitude of the overlying class B airspace).

I had assumed that "altitude your discretion outside of Bravo" was synonymous with "stay out of Bravo, but otherwise assume an appropriate VFR altitude", but perhaps I'm wrong there.
 
Good job,asking for advice here brings out the pickers of the knits. But I'm with you.
 
Just a small point that hasn't been mentioned. You can't technically abbreviate your callsign until the controller (ground station) has abbreviated it first.
 
tomheinan said:
Yes, my CFI cautioned me against it immediately thereafter as well, suggesting "level at X" instead. I think I must've picked it up listening to various ATC streams, but I can see that it's redundant. Obviously, if you're talking to them, you're with them.
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It is a real paradox. Students are told to "learn" aviation communications by monitoring frequencies, logging onto LiveATC, etc, yet some of the most egregious boners come from commercial/airline pilots.

Bob Gardner
 
The one non standard phrase I use is "thank you."

PCT: Navion 5327K Trafifc no longer a factor.
27K: 27K Thank you.

ZTL: There's a area of light to moderate precipitation ahead at your 12 oclock and 10 miles that goes on for about 5 miles.
27K: 27K Thank you.
 
bobmrg said:
yet some of the most egregious boners come from commercial/airline pilots.
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Yep! To the OP - good job on the radios, and I'm impressed you let us listen. I'm (supposedly) a pro, and there's no way I'm gonna let you jackals listen to me! :D
 
Sounds good to me. "The skill to do comes by doing." —Cicero. Sometimes the instructor does too much of the radio work.
 
flyingron said:
The one non standard phrase I use is "thank you."

PCT: Navion 5327K Trafifc no longer a factor.
27K: 27K Thank you.

ZTL: There's a area of light to moderate precipitation ahead at your 12 oclock and 10 miles that goes on for about 5 miles.
27K: 27K Thank you.
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I did the same thing for the longest time, then my CFI commented that one of the ATC guys asked him "What's up with that polite student of yours?"

Sir, ma'am, and thank you - that's just the way I was raised - tough habits to break.
 
Luvrv8 said:
I might just be KCMA but if I repeat a runway assignment and not give my full call sign they get a bit upset and make me repeat it. I am talking about the transcript with you repeating the runway assignment.
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You can only abbreviate your call sign if ATC does it first. Type up a set of calls onto a kneeboard cheat sheet, I did that for Unicom and for B/C/D and after using them for a few weeks, I have them memorized now.
 
Thanks all for the great feedback - I'll incorporate that into my comms procedure going forward.

By way of update, I did my pre-solo phase check today and apparently passed, so the rest of you might want to avoid flying around the Bay Area for the next few weeks while I terrorize the local patterns ;)
 
James331 said:
Sounded fine, agree with the others, with you isn't needed but isn't a big deal.

Also you don't need to read back squak codes, I'll do it to sometimes, but not needed.
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I ALWAYS read back my squawk codes.. there's been a couple times i heard XXZZ and read that back, and the controller corrected my code.
 
Sounds good to me. I usually just say "Looking" or "Looking for the traffic" though. Also you don't have to say "will maintain visual separation," after reporting the traffic in sight.
 
I heard a good one the other day on New York Approach.

The controller was trying to give a pilot a frequency change...went something like this...

NY: Cessna 1YF contact New York Approach on 125.65
1YF: (foreign accent) one five six five
NY: Negative... ONE TWO FIVE POINT SIX FIVE....TWENTY FIVE SIXTY FIVE
1YF: TWENTY FIVE SIXTY FIVE
slight pause
NY: No 1YF, not the squawk code. Reset transponder squawk ZERO THREE ZERO FIVE
1YF: ZERO THREE ZERO FIVE
NY: Now change to New York Center. Change the radio. ONE TWO FIVE POINT SIX FIVE
 
MarleyW said:
Sounds good to me. I usually just say "Looking" or "Looking for the traffic" though. Also you don't have to say "will maintain visual separation," after reporting the traffic in sight.
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To be politically correct, though, "negative contact" is in the Pilot/Controller Glossary...."looking" is not.

Bob Gardner
 
sferguson524 said:
I ALWAYS read back my squawk codes.. there's been a couple times i heard XXZZ and read that back, and the controller corrected my code.
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When in doubt, for sure. That said you don't need to
 
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