Landing techniques!

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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Hello,


Thank you thus far for all of your input On these boards.


I was talking about landing techniques and I noticed on these boards there are different techniques on how people land. Someone told me that they land by checking how high he is by glancing from the side, someone else told me that they land by pointing the cowling on the left side while descending. Someone else told me that they land on the letters EVERYTIME!

What is your landing technique?
 
I don't see a relationship between those 3 "techniques" you describe. Maybe ask a more specific question about what aspect of the landing you would like technique input on. It's a wide-open question as is.
 
If they land on the letter(s), they are right of center. :)

What do they do when there aren't any letters?

You seem to be talking about the flare. Once you're there, where you're going to land is already mostly determined by your speed. You have to let it bleed off, and it's going to be long if it's excessive. You can land a little flat, but if it's more than that, you'll bounce.
 
My landing technique is try real hard to make the mains alight first....all else is frilly non-sense...:D
 
I usually try to get the plane in a downward gradient aiming for the beginning of a runway. If all goes well, I'm on the runway when I'm at ground level.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I usually try to get the plane in a downward gradient aiming for the beginning of a runway. If all goes well, I'm on the runway when I'm at ground level.
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Just don't do a Space Shuttle approach…. :) 20 deg glideslope, ~350 KIAS at 10,000 feet.
 
Land smoothly, touchdown at minimum speed, within a few feet of where where you want, minimal floating, right on centerline, no crab or drift, from a power off approach, full flaps (if applicable), no more than 1.3Vso for your current configuration. That IMO, is good technique in light single-engine airplanes.
 
Approach at 1.3 Vs0 (in CAS -- common error, and it's a BIG one in later 172s). Touch down much closer to Vs0, preferably with the stall horn sounding.
 
There are a few things to master and then you will land well most of the time.

The first big thing is to make your base to final turn is square enough to be on the extended center line when you roll level and far enough out to get down without diving at the runway. If you are wide you need to assess whether you can get back on the center line without stalling, or getting too close to the runway. If you are, then go around.

The second thing is to be PATIENT and sink at 1.3 x Vso (a little over stall landing speed) at or near idle until you are over the runway. At that point your throttle should be at idle. Then pitch up about 10 feet off the surface and fly level (roundout). People vary on how they figure out they are 10 feet off and level, by looking toward the end of the runway for instance, and not just over the nose in front of the plane.

The last part is to be PATIENT and wait till you sink to about three feet over the runway and begin to steadily pull back on the stick or yoke (pitch the nose up). This will cause the plane to stall just before touching down on the mains. You MUST NOT TOUCH THE NOSE WHEEL at the same or before the mains touch. That's when bad things happen.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Just don't do a Space Shuttle approach…. :) 20 deg glideslope, ~350 KIAS at 10,000 feet.
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I sorta do in the Arrow, just not at 350 kts. This happened to me Saturday when I was flying to KSAC:

"Exec Tower, Arrow 123SA is ten miles to the Southeast with India."

"Arrow 3SA, make left base for two zero."

"Arrow 3SA, suggest you turn twenty degrees." (for what?)

"Wilco, which way you want me to turn?"

"Turn right, for about a mile and a half base." (Did I mistakenly say "B52" as my type?)

Not sure why he wanted me way out there, I didn't see or hear any other traffic arriving or leaving. I just kept TPA in to final until the PAPI's were nice and red, then helicoptered it in as usual.
 
MAKG1 said:
Just don't do a Space Shuttle approach…. :) 20 deg glideslope, ~350 KIAS at 10,000 feet.
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I prefer a 40 degree glideslope...and a little under 350KT. :)

 
I set the trim to match my desired airspeed (once fully configured). I use power to maintain my desired glide path.

I let the positive static & dynamic stability of the airplane fly itself down.

Pitch for airspeed (already done by the trim)
Power for altitude

I'll ease on the yoke for a gentle flare. Beautiful landings every single time.
 
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Abeam the numbers on downwind, pull the power, put in full flaps, and poweroff glide on in!
 
Must. Nail. Speeds. I repeat......u GOTTA nail your speeds and the rest will fall into place.

too fast = float, balloon, angry cfi and student.
too slow = very angry cfi, airplane owner, possibly students' significant other.


nail your speeds and transition to looking farther down the runway as u cross the #'s (or somewhere around there, before you flare).


lastly, over the numbers is a bad time to look out the window and yell YEEEEHHHAAAAWWWW!!!!! :goofy:
 
I usually fly my Sierra all the way down to the runway with a bit of power. Pulling power with both the gear and flaps down can be eye-opening compared to the 152 I previously owned.
 
RoscoeT said:
I don't see a relationship between those 3 "techniques" you describe. Maybe ask a more specific question about what aspect of the landing you would like technique input on. It's a wide-open question as is.
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Roscoe,

When landing one of the pilots I mentioned told me when the cowling goes up by a flare they look out from the side window to figure out how high they are so they can land. The other pilot aligns the airplane left of the center line 60 to 70 feet out. The other lands on the letters or at the beginning of the runway because he is a Bush pilot and he is use to landing on shorter runways.

As a beginner, I didn't know that there are many techniques and it's clear by the many people who posted. I thought one plane, one technique.

Learn something new everyday!
 
Do you guys approach the runway close to stall speed?

I remember there was a guy here in Florida who tried to avoid a midair while landing but didn't have enough lift to avoid it and crashed just before the runway.
 
I think you need to discuss this with your instructor rather than trying to get folks on the internet to critique what they cannot see. There are many ways to skin this cat, but you will not make your training any easier if you try to do things differently than your instructor is teaching.
 
Usually for work I just close my eyes and wait for the impact, I worry about the apologies later.
 
Bring it in at vref, make sure the runway numbers don't move in your windscreen --> point of impact --> they move up you're too low, down you're too high.

Runway assured, pull the power

As you get low, as in a few feet, focus changes from the numbers to the infinity point, this is the point on the horizon (way way down the runway center line) that moves the least. Think of those paintings of roads with the power lines that go on forever, the the road just disappears into that point.

Keep looking at that point and try to hold the plane 1 inch off the runaway.

Bingo.


*Ailerons to keep the plane in the middle of the runway, rudder to keep it point down the center line.

*The cowl position crap doesn't work when you change planes, just use good fundamentals.

*Remember a flare isn't something you do, it's a side effect of what I discussed above :wink2:

*Pretend there is a ratchet on the yoke, once you pull it back you can't put it forward from that position, if it balloons a little just wait for her to settle down and add more back pressure or a lil power.

Blue skies
 
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FloridaPilot said:
Do you guys approach the runway close to stall speed?

I remember there was a guy here in Florida who tried to avoid a midair while landing but didn't have enough lift to avoid it and crashed just before the runway.
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Hell, no!

A lull in the wind can ruin your whole day.

1.3 Vs0 on approach.

Most students are too fast, as it's s bit counterintuitive to pull the nose UP to descend faster.

I think you may be confusing approach with landing. They are quite different.
 
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whifferdill said:
I prefer a 40 degree glideslope...and a little under 350KT. :)

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Now THAT's how you land an airplane! :thumbsup:

My landing technique shouldn't be replicated in most GA aircraft: Typically around 140 knots on short final, power idle about 50 feet above the runway, start your flare at around 20 feet, touchdown attitude a little after 10 feet. The CRJ-200 is a lawn dart, but it's pretty easy to get greasers. The -700 and -900, on the other hand, land more like a normal airplane but are much tougher to get back on the ground smoothly. Try to land it like a -200 and 70+ people are going to need to see their chiropractors...
 
matthammer said:
Now THAT's how you land an airplane! :thumbsup:

My landing technique shouldn't be replicated in most GA aircraft: Typically around 140 knots on short final, power idle about 50 feet above the runway, start your flare at around 20 feet, touchdown attitude a little after 10 feet.
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Sounds like the prefect transition from the 172. No wonder instructors are so gung-ho for the CRJ.

Big shiny jet.
 
Whats so hard about flying a few feet above the runway until the plane stops flying? I hear everybody is doing it these days. :eek:)
 
DFH65 said:
Whats so hard about flying a few feet above the runway until the plane stops flying? I hear everybody is doing it these days. :eek:)
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I would rather it quit flying just as the wheels touch the runway. A few feet is quite a drop. ;)
 
Don't let the plane control you. You must control her. Make her submit. She will land when she quits flying. Make her quit flying. Read the POH. It will tell you at what point she will stop flying.
 
jordane93 said:
Talk with your CFI. He has landing techniques that he will teach you
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I landed with a CFI but that doesn't mean it's the right habit to adopt. He lands in the middle of the runway, (Runway is 3,000 ft) but I noticed people land closer to the beginning of the runway, around the letters.

If I adopt that habit of floating it could cause me trouble on a shorter runway so I just wanted to get a feel for other techniques.
 
If you're not happy with the way the CFI is teaching you to land, maybe discuss it with him/her? There might be a reason you're being taught that way. If there's no reason, then just ask him/her to work with you on short field landing techniques that will undoubtedly move you down to where you think you should be. Though, as others have said, please trust the CFI's judgment.

One thing I want to mention is that the landing techniques others are offering you here contribute some of their success to the particular plane that person is flying. So take it all in with a grain of salt. What works for them might not work for you. I trained in 172s and Piper Warriors. While the general advice applies to both, it took variations in technique between the two to convert acceptable landings to really good ones (and I'm still pursuing those rare greasers :)) I now fly a Hershey Bar wing Cherokee which bleeds airspeed at idle even on a steep approach angle and which doesn't glide anywhere near as well as the Warriors or 172s. What I do in that plane for short field landing technique would not work in the others for certain.
 
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What airplanes don't use power to idle, full flap, and minimum approach speed for a short field landing? Well, a few don't have flaps, but it's obvious what to do there.

If the FBO is far down the field, that might explain long landings, but it's a bad habit. 3000 feet isn't that long.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I landed with a CFI but that doesn't mean it's the right habit to adopt. He lands in the middle of the runway, (Runway is 3,000 ft) but I noticed people land closer to the beginning of the runway, around the letters.

If I adopt that habit of floating it could cause me trouble on a shorter runway so I just wanted to get a feel for other techniques.
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Lesson #1...good landings are slow landings. You are managing total energy (kinetic + potential) and the airplane will quit flying when that figure is at a safe minimum. Potential energy is basically how high you are above the runway surface, so you want to flare at as low an height as you are comfortable with; kinetic energy is the square of airspeed, so here again you want the lowest possible number. Excess total energy causes floating.

The PTS calls for touchdown within 400 feet of a point specified by the examiner...I don't think that halfway down a 3000 foot runway would pass that test because most examiners want you to touch down within the first one-third of the runway. To prepare for this, aim to touch down within the first 500 feet on every landing. If it looks as though you will not hit that target, go around; you will get brownie points for good decision making.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Lesson #1...good landings are slow landings. You are managing total energy (kinetic + potential) and the airplane will quit flying when that figure is at a safe minimum. Potential energy is basically how high you are above the runway surface, so you want to flare at as low an height as you are comfortable with; kinetic energy is the square of airspeed, so here again you want the lowest possible number. Excess total energy causes floating.

The PTS calls for touchdown within 400 feet of a point specified by the examiner...I don't think that halfway down a 3000 foot runway would pass that test because most examiners want you to touch down within the first one-third of the runway. To prepare for this, aim to touch down within the first 500 feet on every landing. If it looks as though you will not hit that target, go around; you will get brownie points for good decision making.

Bob Gardner
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Got it! Thanks for your input!

So you don't want to approach stall speed? Suppose you were in a C172 approx. How many knots should you be 100 feet from the runway?
 
I love this discussion. My instructor had me do the "fly a foot or two above the runway" exercise on a 10,000 foot runway near here on my last lesson.

Great exercise.



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