From the Peoples Socialist Republic of Kalifornia

RJM62 said:
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Max has family in Brooklyn, so he's probably been there.

I was actually talking about farther north. But Brooklyn's okay, except for where the latest wave of yuppies have taken over, mainly down by da bridges to da city. Some other parts, like Park Slope, have been yuppified for decades. It's actually getting hard to find pockets of Olde Brooklyn.

I grew up in Olde Brooklyn, back when it was still gritty and dirty. I also lived in Queens for many years. I've never lived in Manhattan, though. Nor did I want to. Back in the day, those of us who lived in the "outer boroughs" held Manhattan in contempt and disdain. The boroughs had very strong independent identities, although one thing we all agreed on was that we all hated Manhattan.

The reasons for that had a lot to do with city funding priorities that sunk every possible dollar into Manhattan, while ignoring the rest of the city. The "Lindsay Snowstorm" of 1969 kind of changed that, when City Hall came to the realization that the voters in the "outer boroughs" collectively outnumbered the ones in Manhattan.

As for California... meh. Most people I met in California were very nice, but most people I've met anywhere were very nice. People are pretty much people. I do chuckle at Californians' defensiveness of their state, however, and how angry they get when other people don't care for California. It's kind of funny to watch.

If you say to a New Yorker, "I don't like New York," we may suggest some other parts to look at, but more likely we'll just shrug. Saus-eech his own, as we used to say in Brooklyn.

For my part, I prefer the country and always have. The second my psychotic ex and I split up I no longer had anything tying me to the city, I started looking North. I go downstate about two or three times a year now, on average, and that's often enough for me.

-Rich
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Oh North, you mean The Bronx?
 
ebetancourt said:
The funny one was the city that billed itself a sanctuary city then wanted Federal money to help with the cost associated with a high crime rate.

States rights should come with state responsibility; if you spend it you pay for it.
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At present, the law doesn't permit states to declare bankruptcy. There is actually a special provision of the bankruptcy code in there for municipalities.

My opinion, and not to send this to the Spin Zone, is they should provide an option for a state bankruptcy, however that state cedes its "statehood" as a result of it, with its territory reverting to a federally administered territory (like Guam or Puerto Rico). Governor: Fired. State Legislators: Fired. Once it's all sorted out, come up with a new State Constitution and petition for readmission as a state.
 
denverpilot said:
Amen. Broke-ass State.
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California is not broke. We had budget issues for a few years, but that has mostly been resolved. We do have too high of a tax burden, though and small business is getting squeezed.

From Wikipedia:

California's economy is the 12th largest economy in the world (2012),[9] if the states of the U.S. were compared with other countries.[10][11][12] As of 2010, the gross state product (GSP) is about $1.9 trillion, which is 13.06% of the United States gross domestic product (GDP)[

Compare that to Colorado, for instance:

The economy of the US state of Colorado according to The Bureau of Economic Analysis gross state product estimates for 2008 was $ 248.6 billion.[9][10] The Colorado economy ranked 20th largest in the United States in 2008.
 
John221us said:
California is not broke. We had budget issues for a few years, but that has mostly been resolved. We do have too high of a tax burden, though and small business is getting squeezed.

From Wikipedia:

California's economy is the 12th largest economy in the world (2012),[9] if the states of the U.S. were compared with other countries.[10][11][12] As of 2010, the gross state product (GSP) is about $1.9 trillion, which is 13.06% of the United States gross domestic product (GDP)[

Compare that to Colorado, for instance:

The economy of the US state of Colorado according to The Bureau of Economic Analysis gross state product estimates for 2008 was $ 248.6 billion.[9][10] The Colorado economy ranked 20th largest in the United States in 2008.
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What is California's debt and how much are their unfunded liabilities?
 
I lived in SoCal for several years, loved it while I was there, but never once considered staying permanently. Summer was nice, not as hot as here in Texas, but I sometimes missed a good old-fashioned rainstorm.

Winter was less cold, most of the time, but nut-job legislation meant that, when a cold snap came, the cost to heat your home was staggering (after you used a quota of gas, based upon your home's size and equipment, the rate for more gas went way up). Well-intentioned nanny-state stuff, intended to punish profligate users of energy, but no accounting for... cold weather.

Traffic was horrid, but it ain't peaches and cream here, either.

Big thing, for me, was taxes. Yikes, an income tax! Don't much miss that.
 
As always, there's a happy median somewhere. Somewhere between Texas and California.

The cartoon that surfaced after the propane plant explosion in West, Tx, while quite irreverent, was spot on.

Booming%20427.jpeg
 
SCCutler said:
Big thing, for me, was taxes. Yikes, an income tax! Don't much miss that.
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Not every state is fortunate enough to have an oil-industry-supported welfare system for all residents like Texas and Alaska.

Wish they were, but some have to make their own living.
 
timwinters said:
Not every state is fortunate enough to have an oil-industry-supported welfare system for all residents like Texas and Alaska.

Wish they were, but some have to make their own living.
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Man, I wish we had Alaska's system. Oil industry is good, but not THAT good, for us here.
 
timwinters said:
As always, there's a happy median somewhere. Somewhere between Texas and California.

The cartoon that surfaced after the propane plant explosion in West, Tx, while quite irreverent, was spot on.

Booming%20427.jpeg
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It was a fertilizer plant, one much like you'll find hundreds of in various places all over California. But I understand the need of editorial cartoonists to take shots at Texas, even if they haven't the faintest clue of that about which they comment.
 
SCCutler said:
It was a fertilizer plant, one much like you'll find hundreds of in various places all over California. But I understand the need of editorial cartoonists to take shots at Texas, even if they haven't the faintest clue of that about which they comment.
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The editorialization was in regards to the "Low Regs" in the sign.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you don't like California politics and don't live here, STFU. It's not your business.
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Your idiot pols are making the rest of the country cough up to pay for your hundred-BILLION-dollar train to nowhere. We had no say in the matter.

You elect your most insane politicians to Congress, where they "have to pass the law to know what's in it" and where they try to ban everything they don't like.

You turn farms into dust bowls to give water to a 1" long baitfish, then want to drain lakes to send the water to the other end of the state, demanding (again) that taxpayers in the other 49 states foot the bill.

What in ANY of that do you think equals "not your business" . . ?
 
John221us said:
California is not broke. We had budget issues for a few years, but that has mostly been resolved. We do have too high of a tax burden, though and small business is getting squeezed.

From Wikipedia:
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WIKIPEDIA??? That's not a source, that's a blog.

Let me also point out that it's possible to have a massive GDP and still be broke, the same way you can have a multibillion-dollar corporation go into bankruptcy.

If California isn't broke, then pay for your own silly train.
 
timwinters said:
As always, there's a happy median somewhere. Somewhere between Texas and California.

The cartoon that surfaced after the propane plant explosion in West, Tx, while quite irreverent, was spot on.
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. . .and completely ignored the fact that fertilizer plants (as producers of explosive compounds) are operated under FEDERAL authority, not state authority . . .
 
SoloEqs said:
Your idiot pols are making the rest of the country cough up to pay for your hundred-BILLION-dollar train to nowhere. We had no say in the matter.

You elect your most insane politicians to Congress, where they "have to pass the law to know what's in it" and where they try to ban everything they don't like.

You turn farms into dust bowls to give water to a 1" long baitfish, then want to drain lakes to send the water to the other end of the state, demanding (again) that taxpayers in the other 49 states foot the bill.

What in ANY of that do you think equals "not your business" . . ?
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California residents put more money into the federal pot than they receive in services, while most states in the south actually are supported by states such as ours. Your welcome. We save those fish because it saves the salmon population and last I saw our farms produce more for food for this country than many countries. Your also welcome.
 
I live in the Sacramento Valley. Visibility is 10 sm about 8 months out of the year. What's your state like?
 
SCCutler said:
It was a fertilizer plant.
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oh yeah, that was my mistake, I misremembered.

SCCutler said:
one much like you'll find hundreds of in various places all over California
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True, but I doubt that you'd be is likely to find one planted right in the middle of a residential district in California. Wasn't there a nursing home right next to this one? Nice....

SoloEqs said:
. . .and completely ignored the fact that fertilizer plants (as producers of explosive compounds) are operated under FEDERAL authority, not state authority . . .
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the feds may be the authority regulating the operation of the plant, but I doubt they had any responsibility in determining where it was located...in the middle of town...that has to do with local planning and zoning not the feds.

we can either choose to get into a race to the bottom or a race to the top.
 
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As much as I dislike Pelosi, I doubt she's done as much damage as Texas oilmen and Chicago politicians.
 
CaptLabrador said:
California residents put more money into the federal pot than they receive in services, while most states in the south actually are supported by states such as ours. Your welcome. We save those fish because it saves the salmon population and last I saw our farms produce more for food for this country than many countries. Your also welcome.
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Sorry, that's not actually true.

The way the numbers are calculated makes it look like low-population states with a lot of Federal stuff in them are taking in a lot of money, when the money doesn't come to those states.

All ASSETS are accounted for in those numbers, such as equipment, vehicles, aircraft, computers, buildings, land, etc which are owned by the Feds and used by Federal agencies. Here in Nevada, every plane at Nellis and Fallon are listed as "spending in Nevada," even though these are not available for state use, they weren't built in Nevada and they will be taken out of Nevada when they are needed elsewhere. Every plane in the Davis Monthan boneyard went on the register as if they were money sent to Arizona.

Likewise, the costs of fencing and patrolling thousands of square miles of Federal land are shown on the books as money spent here, as are the costs of operating Hoover Dam and other facilities. These are called "services," even though they are solely under Federal control.

If you look at actual spending done for state purposes, California is one of the 5 top recipients of money from taxpayers in other states.
 
CaptLabrador said:
California residents put more money into the federal pot than they receive in services, while most states in the south actually are supported by states such as ours. Your welcome. We save those fish because it saves the salmon population and last I saw our farms produce more for food for this country than many countries. Your also welcome.
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*You're*
 
timwinters said:
oh yeah, that was my mistake, I misremembered.



True, but I doubt that you'd be is likely to find one planted right in the middle of a residential district in California. Wasn't there a nursing home right next to this one? Nice....



the feds may be the authority regulating the operation of the plant, but I doubt they had any responsibility in determining where it was located...in the middle of town...that has to do with local planning and zoning not the feds.

we can either choose to get into a race to the bottom or a race to the top.
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We've been in a hard run for the bottom since 1972.
 
timwinters said:
True, but I doubt that you'd be is likely to find one planted right in the middle of a residential district in California.
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You mean, like those big oil refineries in Carson, Torrance and Wilmington, which are across the street from housing tracts . . ?

The ones which feed square miles of tank farms surrounded by residential neighborhoods, through hundreds of miles of underground pipelines which run under people's back yards and carry everything from oil to gasoline to rocket fuel compounds?

The ones which get their crude and gas through TENS OF THOUSANDS of miles of underground pipelines from wells, harbors and even other states?

The ones which (collectively) have had over 1000 explosions and fires since 1960, resulting in dozens of deaths?

And how about the Chevron stuff up in the Bay Area . . ?

Please explain again how California is so much safer than Texas . . .
 
SoloEqs said:
And how about the Chevron stuff up in the Bay Area . . ?

Please explain again how California is so much safer than Texas . . .
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Don't forget the looming Fukushima disaster that will likely take decades to control.
 
timwinters said:
we can either choose to get into a race to the bottom or a race to the top.
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Spending one hundred thousand million dollars on a train that nobody will ride is High-Speed Rail to the bottom.

That's enough to buy over 1,300 brand new 737s.

Southwest Airlines only has 696 B737s of all models. And that includes the AirTran fleet.

With that fleet, SWA and AirTran serve 96 cities in 41 states, DC, PR and FIVE OTHER COUNTRIES.

Southwest flights between the LA area and the Bay Area generally are 70 percent full. There are more seats EMPTY on SWA alone than the Jerry's Boondoggle will carry, for a one-hour flight (as opposed to 4 - 5 hours on the train) which costs as low as $60 (the current Amtrak rates for LA - Emeryville start at $115).

If you do the research, you will find that only two HSR lines have EVER BROKEN EVEN (both in Japan, and each for one year, decades ago).

This is going to cost taxpayers across the country $70 billion, and all be money down a rathole.

That's not even counting the indefensible terrorist target presented by that high-tech rail line through hundreds of miles of empty land.
 
SoloEqs said:
I wouldn't mind that, if you people didn't always try to turn this place into what you fled from.
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"You people". I guess we're all the same.

And BTW, I will agree that the high speed rail thing is exquisitely stupid. I voted against it as did most of the people I know. I have zero interest in pretty much any type of travel to southern ca, but if I did, it would be on Southwest or driving. Another case of "follow the money".
 
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SoloEqs said:
Point taken -- it was unfair of me to lump you in with so many of the Californians who have moved into neighboring states, then trashed the local economies, politics and standard of living.
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A lot of us came here, live here and stay here because of jobs and family. There's nothing I'd like better than to move back to Eastern Washington.
 
SoloEqs said:
Point taken -- it was unfair of me to lump you in with so many of the Californians who have moved into neighboring states, then trashed the local economies, politics and standard of living.
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As a point of reference, I thought all Texans were jerks until I spent some time in Texas. Turns out most of the Texans that move to California are jerks. Texans are some of the nicest people I've ever worked with.
 
Old Geek said:
As a point of reference, I thought all Texans were jerks until I spent some time in Texas. Turns out most of the Texans that move to California are jerks. Texans are some of the nicest people I've ever worked with.
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Funny thing - I liked most of the people I met in California. There were some butts, but they're everywhere.

For that matter, my wife and I visited Paris, France, and we had heard that the French were all rude; guess the jerks were all on vacation, because everyone was very nice to us.

Go figure!
 
JeffDG said:
At present, the law doesn't permit states to declare bankruptcy. There is actually a special provision of the bankruptcy code in there for municipalities.
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Allowing a State to drive thru the bankruptcy car wash doesn't get their debtors paid. Not even sure why you'd bring it up.

Bankruptcy as a strategy is already used by many companies. See: the original Global Crossing. Build a network you can't afford, file bankruptcy, negotiate lower prices after you already own all the gear, pizz off every vendor out there, and return the next day after doing a token layoff, as a new entity "DBA Global Crossing".

I don't know how many times they were "cut off" from purchases by companies I worked for or companies I had friends at. Last I heard, they aren't paying bills again and are cut off at multiple vendors again.

That company rakes in cash. They strategically pay their bills only when convenient, however.

You really don't want States doing that.
 
Only on PoA where a thread is started with the theme of "porn" can it turn into a "states rights" and "bankruptcy" discussion..............
 
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