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Keith Lane

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Keith Lane
Did any of you twin drivers read the article on the Diamond Diesel Twin (DDT?) yet? If so, what did you think? I'll never own a twin, but I'm curious what someone with a double money burner thought of this. I did the math on the 3.8 hour leg they flew and it added up to about 11.somethingorother GPH of JetA. Yikes!
 
Keith Lane said:
Did any of you twin drivers read the article on the Diamond Diesel Twin (DDT?) yet? If so, what did you think? I'll never own a twin, but I'm curious what someone with a double money burner thought of this. I did the math on the 3.8 hour leg they flew and it added up to about 11.somethingorother GPH of JetA. Yikes!

I'm not a twin driver, but I sure was enamored with the Diamond DA42 after reading that review. How about the way the run-up (can we still call it that in the DA42?) works!? Cool, huh?

I then started doing a lot of reading about Cirrus vs. Diamond DA40, and was surprised how bad Cirrus is rated by OWNERS for customer service, parts, etc. compared to the Diamond. Cirrus needs to get their CS act together.

I'm very interested in the Diamonds...
 
Troy Whistman said:
I'm not a twin driver, but I sure was enamored with the Diamond DA42 after reading that review. How about the way the run-up (can we still call it that in the DA42?) works!? Cool, huh?

I then started doing a lot of reading about Cirrus vs. Diamond DA40, and was surprised how bad Cirrus is rated by OWNERS for customer service, parts, etc. compared to the Diamond. Cirrus needs to get their CS act together.

I'm very interested in the Diamonds...
Yeah, me too. I just wish there was a way to squeeze a 5th person into it. Oh well, by the time I can afford one my oldest will be gone to college...
 
thats 11 gph TOTAL right? even 11 per side isnt very uncommon for many light twins. get a pretty capable 6-8 seater and you are above 20 gph easy, per side!
 
Correct, 11 GPH total. And Jet A is cheaper than 100LL. The one thing that gets me is the other thing pointed out in the article...a 44 ft. wingspan.
 
its just a twin engined motorglider...:)
 
Nice airplane -- the fuel burn appeals to my frugal side, that 2nd engine to the "sure is scary out here at night in imc in a single" side. Sounds like they've done a fair job mitigating the engine replacement cost risk for early buyers.

For more than $500k, I'd have to have some sort of business I could use to write off the costs. Plus the cabin looks rather snug. Still, it's a beautiful looking bird.
 
Keith Lane said:
Did any of you twin drivers read the article on the Diamond Diesel Twin (DDT?) yet? If so, what did you think? I'll never own a twin, but I'm curious what someone with a double money burner thought of this. I did the math on the 3.8 hour leg they flew and it added up to about 11.somethingorother GPH of JetA. Yikes!

11 gals? Thats about what it would take to start one side on my dads' old BE-18.:D
 
W.O'Boogie said:
11 gals? Thats about what it would take to start one side on my dads' old BE-18.:D

If your dad has or had an old BE-18 and 11 gals to start the engines for him, he sure is one lucky guy! :D
 
I think the cabin is the same as the DA-40. To be honest, I find it pretty uncomfortable on the lower back after a couple of hours. Not much cushion in those seats, non-adjustable, and no lumbar support to speak of. I haven't tried any luggage yet. With just the two of us, that wouldn't be that big a deal, because the back seats are open to us.
 
gprellwitz said:
I think the cabin is the same as the DA-40. To be honest, I find it pretty uncomfortable on the lower back after a couple of hours. Not much cushion in those seats, non-adjustable, and no lumbar support to speak of. I haven't tried any luggage yet. With just the two of us, that wouldn't be that big a deal, because the back seats are open to us.

That's one of the most common detracting comments for the DA series. Does Oregon Aero make a cushion that would fit on the DA40's seat? Would it put you too close to the canopy to use a cushion?
 
There are a couple of tradeoffs. Normally you think of a light twin as giving you relatively:
More reliability
More load
More speed
At a much higher fuel burn when compared to a single of similar size.

The Diamond doesn't offer much more in the way of speed or load compared to the DA40, so I think of it as a way to get the reliability of the twin (and ice protection) without driving up your operating costs much. Even though you have two engines, the engines themselves are disposable, and you get them (at least for now) on a "power by the hour" price strategy, where you are guaranteed a discount on the engine replacement if the engines don't make TBR of 2400 hours, or they don't succeed in getting the engines TBR to 2400. If you figure $50,000 for engines every 2400 hours, with less engine maintenance (they are simpler, mechanically), then the airplane looks like a good value if you are a travelling pilot as opposed to a more local-area type. What remains to be seen is:

Fleet safety record, and how well they do protecting people in "off-airport" landings.
Will the FADEC be maintenance intensive? Given how reliable automobile engine control systems are, I'm hopeful, but we'll have to see how it goes.
Will the prop/gearboxes be maintenance intensive?

If I had $500,000 to spend on a new airplane, it would be a tough choice between a turbo 182 (where except for the G1000 there should be few "surprises"), a Mooney Ovation (same issues) or the Diamond Twin. If the Diamond had the time in service of the Cessna or Mooney I'd buy it, even at the slower speed the extra engine is worth it to me for the type of flying I'd be doing. I'd take the Diamond over the Cirrii for the same reasons, they're both relative newcomers and two engines and 155 knots and known ice is worth more to me than one engine and 180+ knots.
 
flyersfan31 said:
For more than $500k, I'd have to have some sort of business I could use to write off the costs. Plus the cabin looks rather snug. Still, it's a beautiful looking bird.

Last I checked, the base price was $439,000. Time to put your deposit down. ;)

Also, while the cabin may *look* snug, I am 6'4" and I do fit OK. I'd have to buy an in-ear headset as my Lightspeeds have a very thick headband that bumps against the canopy. However, I have the exact same problem in a Baron, so it's not like the DA42 headroom is that bad.

The other thing is, I can sit up completely and be perfectly comfortable in the BACK seats, something I can't say for, well, pretty much any other small airplane. If you can fit within the W&B, this really is a good airplane for four adults. Plus, it's easy to get into, the right rear seat is the only one without its own door. Lots of baggage room too, depending on shape and if you have all the seats full. It only looks small from the outside.
 
TMetzinger said:
The Diamond doesn't offer much more in the way of speed or load compared to the DA40

Huh? It's got a good 20 knots on the DA40, comparable to what a Seneca has over a Lance.

Fleet safety record, and how well they do protecting people in "off-airport" landings.

Diamonds have two wing spars, and IIRC they did some of the certification stuff with one removed to show that each spar individually would be enough to pass certification. Again, IIRC, As a result of having two spars, they are the only composite airplane that does not have a life limit.

The fuel tanks are positioned between the spars to minimize the chances of a fuel spill during a crash. The only fatal Diamond crash with a fire was when the plane hit power lines.

I've also heard they glide very well. After all, Diamond started as a glider company. The wings have a relatively high aspect ratio compared to most small airplanes, which would tend to support the long-glide theory.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Huh? It's got a good 20 knots on the DA40, comparable to what a Seneca has over a Lance.

OK, so the DA40 is slow too;) .

Actually, I was thinking of the 42 as a 150 knot airplane, and I guess it's closer to 160. Folks need to get used to operating at 85% power in the 42, since it's certified for that.

I just wish it was a 180 knot airplane, that would really make it a gem.

I've sat in one (I'm 6'3" and it was comfy, but never closed the canopy so don't know if it would be an issue with my Lightspeeds. I seem to recall that the seats were of the Tempurfoam type, which were firm but good for hours - similar seats were in the Symphonys I've ferried, and they were the most comfy seats ever for long flights.
 
I read the article and loved the aircraft.

I also liked the article on the 150. Gave it some well-deserved respect.
 
Actually except for the seats and lack of headroom it is a really nice piece of eqipment, performs well on both and outperforms every twin built by cessna and piper on one, will pretty well perfom with the big barons on one, with 2 on board, no baggage, full fuel, does feel a little nose heavy on landing and slow speed, but nothing serious, my only complaint is the lack of headroom, and the lack of some type of visor to stifle the relentless sun.
 
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