BJJ to PHX in one day

Morne

Morne

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Morne
Alright, so I need to go to PHX for business 9/30. It's about 1500 nm and I'd like to do it all in one day. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

Some background and parameters:
300-ish hour PP-ASEL with IR
Going solo, packing a cooler with plenty of food/beverage
Straight leg 182 equipped /A with iPad2 ForeFlight on yoke (iPhone backup)
Normal fuel capacity (no long range tanks)
Portable oxygen setup
Only flown the Rockies on one prior round trip to California and back
Planning 3 hour legs
Going to depart early am (3-ish) so all my darkness flying is well to the east and while I am rested
Uncertain of exact route until I get closer to departure and I see the weather

Looks like V190 from DHT to PHX is the best route for the last portion of the flight. Thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
 
I would go almost direct BJJ->ABQ, then like you said V190 to PHX. I have crossed the Rockies there headed PHX->RAP a couple times now and although the terrain is fairly high it's not overly pointy down there. I do PHX to RAP in one day, but that's in an RG and it's only 800nm or so depending on the route. With stops you'll probably be thinking a 16 hour day right? That's a lot.
 
Bob Bement and I did a 1,200 nm trip (each way) in April in my C-180, but split both out and back into two days. Looking back, we could have probably made it in one long day but elected to make it fun rather than work. If the distance had been 400 miles more each way, NFW we would have thought about a one-day.

There's a reason that duty days are limited for commercial crews, and they do long trips on a regular basis. PPL's who don't might want to think about why the rule shouldn't apply to them.
 
Z06_Mir said:
.... With stops you'll probably be thinking a 16 hour day right? That's a lot.
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Agreed. "Get-there-itis" could kick in toward the end of the flight.

:nonod:

Plan an extra day. Stop mid-way or a little further. Eat. Sleep. Recheck weather. Fly last leg next day.

Too much can happen to your skills and the conditions over that much time and distance.

JMHO,

Mike
 
wabower said:
Bob Bement and I did a 1,200 nm trip (each way) in April in my C-180, but split both out and back into two days. Looking back, we could have probably made it in one long day but elected to make it fun rather than work. If the distance had been 400 miles more each way, NFW we would have thought about a one-day.

There's a reason that duty days are limited for commercial crews, and they do long trips on a regular basis. PPL's who don't might want to think about why the rule shouldn't apply to them.
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And don't forget the wonderful dinner and stay in beautiful Villa Rica GA! :yes:
I was looking at Atlanta to Scottsdale in the 182 a while back, I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on doing it in day, especially coming home I would have been landing at 9-10 PM after 10+ hours of flying.:yikes:
 
We enjoyed hanging with the beautiful people in GA, but weren't all that impressed with the deluge as we worked our way across the greater ATL area looking for an airport that was suitable for gentlemen of our rank and odor.

N747JB said:
And don't forget the wonderful dinner and stay in beautiful Villa Rica GA! :yes:
I was looking at Atlanta to Scottsdale in the 182 a while back, I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on doing it in day, especially coming home I would have been landing at 9-10 PM after 10+ hours of flying.:yikes:
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I've done legs like that, but they are tiring. I seem to manage up to about 8hrs, after that my head feels like it's full of nails. You're also going against the winds, so your GS won't be great. I think you have the right idea about starting early and flying over the flatlands in darkness. Going into Phoenix at night in a single is not where you want to be when you're dead tired, IFR or not.

What will the 182 cruise at? Also, if you can fly at economy and reduce the stops by one, then that will save you much more time than going faster and having to stop an extra time. It's tedious, but effective.

Do it. Just don't push yourself too hard.
 
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stratobee said:
Going into Phoenix at night in a single is not where you want to be when you're dead tired, IFR or not.
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Ain't that the truth.

I'd definitely plan for two days....or at least a day and a half. If you are feeling good and the weather cooperates, you might be able to press on, but launching with the expectation of making it in one day is pushing it.

To put it in perspective, I'll be doing ORF to PHX in the Baron a week later. ~1750nm at 175 KTAS. I'm planning on overnighting in ABQ.
 
Morne said:
Alright, so I need to go to PHX for business 9/30. It's about 1500 nm and I'd like to do it all in one day. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

Some background and parameters:
300-ish hour PP-ASEL with IR
Going solo, packing a cooler with plenty of food/beverage
Straight leg 182 equipped /A with iPad2 ForeFlight on yoke (iPhone backup)
Normal fuel capacity (no long range tanks)
Portable oxygen setup
Only flown the Rockies on one prior round trip to California and back
Planning 3 hour legs
Going to depart early am (3-ish) so all my darkness flying is well to the east and while I am rested
Uncertain of exact route until I get closer to departure and I see the weather

Looks like V190 from DHT to PHX is the best route for the last portion of the flight. Thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
Click to expand...

"Normal" fuel capacity, cruise speed, etc. can vary widely on a 182 depending on the year and other factors...

Do you have an operable two-axis autopilot? That'll help.

However, I will say that I've gone Denver to Madison and Houston to Madison each in a day in a straight-leg 182, and by the time I got there I was DONE. And that was with a 2-axis autopilot doing all the work. And those are both under 900nm. And easterly. With the headwinds you'll likely face going westbound, you're talking 16+ hours of flying NOT including breaks and fuel stops.

The only time I've done 1500nm in a day via GA was bringing the Mooney home, and that was an eastbound trip with only two stops (One fuel, one food) - And again, I was DONE at the end of that, and the M20R will beat the 182 by a good 40 knots.

What Wayne said. Personally, I'd plan on two days going to PHX and have at least two available for the return trip - If you decide after the outbound trip that you've got a lot more in you after a day and you want to attempt the return in one day, go for it - But I bet you'll still want two, even with a tailwind.
 
Morne said:
Alright, so I need to go to PHX for business 9/30. It's about 1500 nm and I'd like to do it all in one day. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

Some background and parameters:
300-ish hour PP-ASEL with IR
Going solo, packing a cooler with plenty of food/beverage
Straight leg 182 equipped /A with iPad2 ForeFlight on yoke (iPhone backup)
Normal fuel capacity (no long range tanks)
Portable oxygen setup
Only flown the Rockies on one prior round trip to California and back
Planning 3 hour legs
Going to depart early am (3-ish) so all my darkness flying is well to the east and while I am rested
Uncertain of exact route until I get closer to departure and I see the weather

Looks like V190 from DHT to PHX is the best route for the last portion of the flight. Thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
Click to expand...

DUX usually has cheaper gas and is on your route, just east of Dalhart.

Of course there wil be a debate here about O2, but personally, I use it anytime I'm flying more than 2 hours. I feel much better while flying and not nearly as tired when I land. Also, you can do the entire Texas-Phoenix route at 10.5K unless you want to do some sightseeing around Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon.

I agree with the 2 day schedule. Even driving, I have problems after 8 hours. A few years ago I did the Denver-LA trip - 10.5 hours in one day. The only way for me to do that was with a 2nd pilot.
 
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I find it easier to fly as long of legs as you can get from your tanks. Fewer stops is best...
 
We have done a lot of one day flights from VKX to SAF (1,400 nm), in a 172RG, which has about the same cruising speed as a 182, but longer range. I'd recommend an early morning departure so as to arrive in the PHX area before it gets dark, but 3 AM seems a bit drastic. We've always left around 7 AM and arrived at sunset.

I'd recommend heading to the south to avoid the highest terrain and stopping in Ponca City for lunch. A one-hour stop there is refreshing.

Paul
 
Paul Hamilton said:
.

I'd recommend heading to the south to avoid the highest terrain and stopping in Ponca City for lunch. A one-hour stop there is refreshing.

Paul
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We stopped at Ponca City, great Mexican food, but it's still Mexican food and you're in an airplane! :eek: Actually we had 5 of us in Charlene!:no:
Cheap fuel too!!
 
I have flown 14-16 hour missions and always was pretty well beat after. This in a big comfy riding plane with a crew,a coffee machine and a head. If it were me and I absolutely positively had to do it in a day I would fly commercial. There is nothing on Earth that would compel me to push that hard in a GA airplane. :nono:
 
It can be done but it will be one heck of a day and everything has to go right, weather, headwinds, maintenance.....let me know if you want a safety co-pilot to go with you. :)

I love these little quests.

Morne said:
Alright, so I need to go to PHX for business 9/30. It's about 1500 nm and I'd like to do it all in one day. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

Some background and parameters:
300-ish hour PP-ASEL with IR
Going solo, packing a cooler with plenty of food/beverage
Straight leg 182 equipped /A with iPad2 ForeFlight on yoke (iPhone backup)
Normal fuel capacity (no long range tanks)
Portable oxygen setup
Only flown the Rockies on one prior round trip to California and back
Planning 3 hour legs
Going to depart early am (3-ish) so all my darkness flying is well to the east and while I am rested
Uncertain of exact route until I get closer to departure and I see the weather

Looks like V190 from DHT to PHX is the best route for the last portion of the flight. Thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
Click to expand...
 
I've flown 16 hours single pilot, non-stop, no bathroom. It isn't fun and I'd never want to do it again.
 
Get yourself one of these

sleepers.jpg
 
dans2992 said:
What single-pilot AC flies 16 hours non-stop? Ferry tanks?
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Airship. We could have probably got 30 hours endurance out of it with the right wind conditions, with any ferry tank of sorts. Set it up right, that specific model, I could get you 72 hours endurance.
 
Ahh, to be young/low-time again! Ditto on what was said above about arriving PHX after dark, compounded by a day like that. You lose 3 hours before engaging the starter too. I've done Pittsburgh-Phoenix in a longgg day before in a Bonanza- also remember doing Phoenix-Grand Island Nebraska-South Florida in a day once in a 58 Baron. Can't tell you what I was thinking at the time, but I don't remember trips like that being near as fun as you might think.
 
These trips are like vacations, much more fun to plan than they are in real life!! :D

az350x said:
Ahh, to be young/low-time again! Ditto on what was said above about arriving PHX after dark, compounded by a day like that. You lose 3 hours before engaging the starter too. I've done Pittsburgh-Phoenix in a longgg day before in a Bonanza- also remember doing Phoenix-Grand Island Nebraska-South Florida in a day once in a 58 Baron. Can't tell you what I was thinking at the time, but I don't remember trips like that being near as fun as you might think.
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My longest one dayer was Prince George BC to Omak Washington to Cottage Grove Oregon to Tracy California which was three legs of about 350 miles each in a Maule M7 Super Rocket (which doesn't go anywhere near as fast as a rocket btw)

But there were two of us, would have been incredibly grueling solo.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Airship. We could have probably got 30 hours endurance out of it with the right wind conditions, with any ferry tank of sorts. Set it up right, that specific model, I could get you 72 hours endurance.
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Can you open the door in flight and take a leak over the edge? LOL. Just wondering.
 
I've dumped a few dirty diapers overboard.... :)
 
Well, I did it. BJJ-TAZ-K88-DHT-AEG-PHX

Left at 02:30 am EDT just to be sure to have plenty of time to spare if I wanted to take a nap at one of my fuel stops. I was west of the Mississippi River before dawn broke. Felt fine all the way. Didn't really get tired until I walked into my hotel room and saw the bed...

Loafed along at 22-squared while over the lowlands. As I got west I went high, kicked on the oxygen and flew WOT and 2200 rpm, saw some nice low burn rates! Arrived around 5pm local time in PHX, tons of daylight to spare.

Interesting tidbits from along the way:
-While no mist/fog was forecasted at TAZ when I departed it started forming after I saw the field and cancelled my IFR. Seriously, 10 minutes out it was CAVU, but by touchdown the visibility was 3sm. By the time I put gas in the plane it was less than 1/4sm, so I hung out for a bit.
-K88 has the best gas prices I've seen in awhile. I think it was $4.85 for 100LL and they also had MoGas for even less! Friendly folks, too.
-My NA 182E will climb to 14,000 MSL, but it takes a little while to do it.
-It was nice to see that even at 14,000 MSL (with oxygen via cannula) I had 97+% oxygen saturation on the finger pulse oximeter.
-Nothing focuses a pilot's attention like carb ice, which has now happened to me twice at cruise, high altitude and over Texas.
-When coming into AEG from the east, you have to shed about 7,000' of altitude in 8 minutes of flying. Fun descent.
-PHX is busy. Really busy. I landed 25L and they cleared a Beechjet to take off on that runway when I was on a 2-mile final (and keeping 120 knots all the way down the glideslope on request). I had to get off the runway quick, too, because another small jet was on short final.
-The Swift Aviation FBO at PHX is great. They had my rental car running (with AC on) right next to my plane's parking spot.
 
Did you consider flying longer legs to shorten the trip? The 182 carries a LOT of gas.

I flew from Phoenix to Dallas non-stop in one with a slight tailwind.
 
dans2992 said:
Did you consider flying longer legs to shorten the trip? The 182 carries a LOT of gas.

I flew from Phoenix to Dallas non-stop in one with a slight tailwind.
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My 182 doesn't have long range tanks. The original tanks were 65 gallons, 64 useable. With replacement bladders that drops to 54 useable. At 12 gph you get 4 hours max with VFR reserves. Personally, I try to limit legs to 3 hours.

Plus I was hitting headwinds, albeit mild, the whole way.
 
Knowing what you know now, would you do it again?

Morne said:
My 182 doesn't have long range tanks. The original tanks were 65 gallons, 64 useable. With replacement bladders that drops to 54 useable. At 12 gph you get 4 hours max with VFR reserves. Personally, I try to limit legs to 3 hours.

Plus I was hitting headwinds, albeit mild, the whole way.
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wabower said:
Knowing what you know now, would you do it again?
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I've done from Mimi's airport in NC to southern Utah in a day, and then LA to NYC in a day 36 hours later in the Aztec. Plus the PA-Cozumel-PA in 48 hours and OH-Belize-OH in less, but that was the 310. We'll ignore the "short" trips of only 1800 nm in a day. So not quite the same, but similar.

And my answer: in a heartbeat.
 
Are age, experience, physical condition and conditioning, weight, activity level, mental/emotional effort required based on experience and other stress factors the same?

Ted DuPuis said:
I've done from Mimi's airport in NC to southern Utah in a day, and then LA to NYC in a day 36 hours later in the Aztec. Plus the PA-Cozumel-PA in 48 hours and OH-Belize-OH in less, but that was the 310. We'll ignore the "short" trips of only 1800 nm in a day. So not quite the same, but similar.

And my answer: in a heartbeat.
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wabower said:
Are age, experience, physical condition and conditioning, weight, activity level, mental/emotional effort required based on experience and other stress factors the same?
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Doubtful. I'm not Morne, I'll be interested to hear his answer.
 
Morne said:
My 182 doesn't have long range tanks. The original tanks were 65 gallons, 64 useable. With replacement bladders that drops to 54 useable. At 12 gph you get 4 hours max with VFR reserves. Personally, I try to limit legs to 3 hours.

Plus I was hitting headwinds, albeit mild, the whole way.
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That's a LONG day, glad you had a good trip! I like 3 hour legs myself, my butt and my bladder don't like to sit in an airplane seat much more than 2.5-3 hours! I am used to my 182's range and I would have to pay attention with 54 gallons useable! :D
 
Morne said:
My 182 doesn't have long range tanks. The original tanks were 65 gallons, 64 useable. With replacement bladders that drops to 54 useable. At 12 gph you get 4 hours max with VFR reserves. Personally, I try to limit legs to 3 hours.

Plus I was hitting headwinds, albeit mild, the whole way.
Click to expand...

Why did replacement bladders take away 10gallons of petrol?
 
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