Getting started in Sacramento

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TazzyTazzy

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Sep 17, 2013
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Mitch
Hey everyone. As the title says, I'm just getting started with this.

A little background - I wasn't always fascinated with planes, but about 5 years ago a co-worker took me out in a sailplane. WOW! That was amazing. So quiet, and peaceful...But, having to depending on a lift. :) A couple years ago, at a party at a friends house, and a friend of a friend brought their friend with them that has a PPL. He said he loved flying and being able to go anywhere, nearly whenever. Too bad, I didn't keep in touch with him and I think he lived in AZ. Those two things started the seed for flying.

So, I'm just getting started here in Sacramento (oh, wait, that's the title - must be getting to the point). Here's where I'm at:

I'm 6'4, 180# and live near Gold River, CA (east of Sacramento by about 13 miles). I've scheduled an intro flight at EDU (UCDavis airport) this weekend in a 152 (hope I'll fit). I've also scheduled a discovery flight with Executive Flyers out of SAC next weekend. ExecFlyers doesn't have 152s, but 172s.

The goal is to check out both operations and decide where I want to work on my PPL. Is this a good way about doing this (paying for two intro flights)? Any advice on what to look for? What to ask? I PM'd someone here that went to EDU and he said they were great, but also said ExecFlyers is good too).

Here's also a big item: EDU is 32 miles (34 minutes says google) while SAC is 17 miles (23 minutes, google speaks again). I'm in a fuel sipping car, so distance isn't the but added time. Doing the math on price, is also a big factor. Assuming 55 hours of plane rental + 55 hours trainer (30 hours flight + 15 hours pre/post flight), the difference in price really adds up (about $2200 difference). EDU rates are lower since it's a not for profit operation and I'm in a 152 vs 172. Club dues are the same rate.

I appreciate any feedback on what to look for, questions to ask, and on deciding where to go.
 
Welcome to the board! I rent occasionally from EDU (past 7 years), I find their pricing reasonable for the area and the maintenance is good. I don't have any personal experience with Exec Flyers really...
 
I am out of Lincoln. Lincoln Skyways is starting up training (they just purchased a 172) and Mach 5 has some nice planes out of Auburn. EDU seems like kind of a haul from Gold River, but they do have good rates. Cocolos on this board flies out of there. We have quite a few PoA people in Norcal and we do some fun flyins. Welcome to the board.
 
If you'd like to swing by Yolo County Airport, I'll give you a ride in my Flight Design CTSW. I'm pretty sure you'd fit. I did some of my training at McClellan. PM me if interested.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback. Glad to hear that there was no negative reports about either of the places I'm checking out. Looking forward to my first flight today.

@Old Geek: Thanks for the offer. Let me see how my flights go at the two different places. Yolo is a bit of a haul, but I'll keep you in mind. :)
 
I have trained fixed wing at EDU...feel free to hit me up w private message.
Best of luck to you...lots of great folks on here with tons of good info...-))
 
I'm currently working on my PPL at Cal Aggie Flyers (KEDU). I've had a good experience there, but it's not to bad of a drive for me (about 30 mins). It's probably good to do a flight at both places and see which school fits you better. But remember that there are many instructors at each school and everybody is different. I'm 6' 3" and I've been doing my training in a 172. It's a little more (about $19/hour at KEDU, so that isn't chump-change -- almost $800 for 40 hours) but it's more comfortable for me. If the money is a huge issue, you'll probably do OK in a 152. My first 10-15 hours were in 150/152s, they're just a bit more cramped.

Another thing to think about is that Cal Aggie is a Part 61 school and Executive Flyers is a Part 141 school. I recommend reading up on the differences, but one of the big differences is that Part 141 schools use an FAA approved syllabus and have a very structured program (e.g. Lesson 1 your do this; Lesson 2, you do that; Lesson 3, you do the other; etc.) and the Part 61 schools teach you in whichever order the instructor (or the school) desires. You'll end up learning the same information, but perhaps in a different order. In theory, you can complete your license at a Part 141 school quicker (by 5 hours), but in reality most students go beyond the minimum required hours before they finish. I've flown with both types of schools, and the Part 61 worked the best for me, my history, and my scheduling.

How'd your flight go this weekend? Who did you fly with? I was out working on my checkride prep this morning. It was a nice day to fly. Smooth air, not too much haze, and calm winds.

Good luck!
 
technically I did two intro flights, but it was to determine between high wing vs low wing (with low wing being the obvious winner). it wasn't to determine which place I "liked better", I did that for free by frequently visiting several places multiple times and getting to know the people at each. good luck!
 
Honestly if you want very honest people and the cheaper rates of a 152 check out skywalk at exec just under exec flyers. I don't know of one bad thing ever said about them. Talk to Mari at the front desk.
 
I'd suggest trying out a 152 and a 172. 152s are cheaper, but they are ridiculously cramped. Yes, I can fit (barely), but the seat must be all the way down and back, and I can't use a kneeboard.

And 152s get blown around a lot more, too, which can be fun in all those Delta thermals (if you must, fly in the morning). They are cheaper per hour, but you're going to use up more hours trying to get consistently good landings.

I don't have a lot of 152 time, but I don't worry about a 172 in 15 knot winds, whereas a 152 makes me quite nervous.

You may also find a Warrior. Those are less commonly used trainers, but they are quite appropriate (and comparably priced to a 172).

Practice areas are fortunately close by -- the Delta is perfect -- so the fact that a 152 cruises quite a bit slower isn't such a big deal until post-solo.
 
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I'm 6'2". When I was a student pilot I put 4.1 hours on the club's C-150. That was about 12 years ago. I haven't touched one since for the simple reason that I can't get the seat back far enough and my knees were into the bottom of the panel when going for the brakes. YMMV. Nothing smaller than a C-172 since then (and that was what the majority of my training was in, a C-172).

Whichever way you go, have fun and don't run off leaving us to wonder how you're doing.
 
Hey everyone. My intro flight (30 mins) out of KEDU was great with wind of 2 knots in direction of runway (perfect!). I took a little 152 up with Yonathan. He asked about my knowledge / experience of planes and then we walked out and took it up. He controlled the rudder, but had me operate the throttle and yoke from take off to landing. We did a couple of steep turns (one each direction) and a stall. Before heading back, he had me flight straight and level for a bit and pretend I was going to land.

At the end of the flight, he had me do downwind, base, and final. Had me land, but assisted the yoke on/off. After we cleared the runway, he showed and had me taxi - the first time I touched the pedals the entire flight.

I loved every minute of it. However, the landing was...a bit of a thrill. Not having been in a small plane, nor being up front, I was caught of guard aiming the plane down like we were going to run into the end of the runway. Then...all of a sudden he's telling me to gently pull back, then cut power, and wait for flare (or something like that, it's kind of a blurr). It came out to be a perfectly soft landing. In the sail plane, I don't recall such a steep angle coming in on final.

I have a discovery flight scheduled this Saturday in a 172 with ExecFlyers. It's a one hour flight, so looking forward to that very much.

In the mean time, I bought Sportys PPL training DVD set on Monday. My tracking number shows that it's out for delivery to my house today. Looking forward to watching some of that tonight. I know it's ground school, but I need to start somewhere.

@MAKG: Even though the air was calm on the ground, the plane did bounce around more than I expected. Having a flight at 15:45 probably didn't help.

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep you posted after my next flight.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Hey everyone. My intro flight (30 mins) out of KEDU was great with wind of 2 knots in direction of runway (perfect!). I took a little 152 up with Yonathan. He asked about my knowledge / experience of planes and then we walked out and took it up. He controlled the rudder, but had me operate the throttle and yoke from take off to landing. We did a couple of steep turns (one each direction) and a stall. Before heading back, he had me flight straight and level for a bit and pretend I was going to land.

At the end of the flight, he had me do downwind, base, and final. Had me land, but assisted the yoke on/off. After we cleared the runway, he showed and had me taxi - the first time I touched the pedals the entire flight.

I loved every minute of it. However, the landing was...a bit of a thrill. Not having been in a small plane, nor being up front, I was caught of guard aiming the plane down like we were going to run into the end of the runway. Then...all of a sudden he's telling me to gently pull back, then cut power, and wait for flare (or something like that, it's kind of a blurr). It came out to be a perfectly soft landing. In the sail plane, I don't recall such a steep angle coming in on final.

I have a discovery flight scheduled this Saturday in a 172 with ExecFlyers. It's a one hour flight, so looking forward to that very much.

In the mean time, I bought Sportys PPL training DVD set on Monday. My tracking number shows that it's out for delivery to my house today. Looking forward to watching some of that tonight. I know it's ground school, but I need to start somewhere.

@MAKG: Even though the air was calm on the ground, the plane did bounce around more than I expected. Having a flight at 15:45 probably didn't help.

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep you posted after my next flight.
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Flying a light airplane is a whole different deal than riding in the back of an airliner. Sounds like you had a great time. Keep it up and we'll look forward to your next report.
 
Yeah, if you're used to sailplanes, it's gonna seem real steep. Some airplanes are even steeper in a power off approach.

I shared the pattern with a sailplane at Byron once while I was training. He did his approach REALLY low -- normal from what my instructor told me. Then I had to go around since powering off the runway is a bit difficult in a sailplane (the ground guys got him off FAST, though -- next time around, the runway was empty), and I didn't want to take the crosswind on the other runway at that stage in my training.

30 minutes is a bit short for a discovery flight, and I'd have suggested using the rudder in flight (not at takeoff or landing, though). It's an interesting idea. I suspect you may have a different experience the second time around. An hour is just perfect. And the forecast looks really good for Sacramento on Saturday, though the wind forecasts tend to speed up as they get closer.
 
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A little status update.

My flight at KSAC with Executive Flyers last weekend was great. Met with the instructor to assess my goals and current working knowledge, walked around with him while he did the pre-flight, completed the run-up, and took off. After we got to about 1,500 feet, he handed me the controls. Had me continue the climb to 2,500 (KSAC elevation is 26 feet) and make a gentle turn out to the practice area.

He had me do slow flight, 360 turns, a stall, and straight and level. Overall, was a great experience. He signed my log book for 0.8 hours, asked him a few questions about the school and such. He mentioned he will be around for another 6 to 12 months before he moves on.

The CFI also mentioned that I'm way ahead on my skills than where people normally are. So, that's great to hear! :goofy:

However, after much thought and talking to a friend of friend who is a CFI that doesn't fly for a living and just does it for pure fun, I decided to go with....drum roll.....KEDU. It was a very close tie and there was no one thing that drove me to that decision. It's just a personal choice after considering many various factors. Mostly, I think the instructor will be a better fit for _me_ there. Also...They have a free level 2 charger at the airport for my electric car..so miles to get to the airport is dirt cheap. :)

Anyways, I have watched the first two volumes of Sportys Flight school DVD's and read the first 10 chapters of "Student Pilot's Flight Manual: From First Flight to Private Certificate" (SPFM). I've already been reading the Pilots handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge PDF and up to chapter 5. Skimming through the books, I know that I have a LONG ways to go, but I'm prepared for it. :)

:confused: :confused: For now, does anyone think I need to pile on any more books?

I have the 2014 FAR/AIM book, the Private Pilot Test Prep 2014 which includes the FAA test supplement book. I also have the Practical Test Standards book as well - I've read the first half of this book last night - it's small.

My first lesson is Sunday and is scheduled for 3.5 hours. He said much of it will be on the ground and will include going over the pre-flight check in detail. According to the syllabus int he back of the SPFM, I only need to be up to chapter 9 for the few couple of flights. So, I think my book study is up to speed for a little bit. I'm in the process is changing positions in my company, so it'll be a couple weeks before things settle down enough for me to take half day off on the weekday (boss already knows and is aware). So, it'll be flight school on a weekend day for a bit, then after a few weeks, it'll jump to twice a week.

Cheers.
 
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Yay. I now have my class 3 medical out of the way. Looking forward to Sunday. :)
 
You're missing the Airplane Flying Handbook.

I'd suggest using the FAR/AIM as a doorstop for now. You'll have your hands full without it, and it's a better reference book than textbook.

Later, you can move on to the pilot's operating handbook and weather.

But all that should be guided by your instructor.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
A little status update.

My flight at KSAC with Executive Flyers last weekend was great. Met with the instructor to assess my goals and current working knowledge, walked around with him while he did the pre-flight, completed the run-up, and took off. After we got to about 1,500 feet, he handed me the controls. Had me continue the climb to 2,500 (KSAC elevation is 26 feet) and make a gentle turn out to the practice area.

He had me do slow flight, 360 turns, a stall, and straight and level. Overall, was a great experience. He signed my log book for 0.8 hours, asked him a few questions about the school and such. He mentioned he will be around for another 6 to 12 months before he moves on.

The CFI also mentioned that I'm way ahead on my skills than where people normally are. So, that's great to hear! :goofy:

However, after much thought and talking to a friend of friend who is a CFI that doesn't fly for a living and just does it for pure fun, I decided to go with....drum roll.....KEDU. It was a very close tie and there was no one thing that drove me to that decision. It's just a personal choice after considering many various factors. Mostly, I think the instructor will be a better fit for _me_ there. Also...They have a free level 2 charger at the airport for my electric car..so miles to get to the airport is dirt cheap. :)

Anyways, I have watched the first two volumes of Sportys Flight school DVD's and read the first 10 chapters of "Student Pilot's Flight Manual: From First Flight to Private Certificate" (SPFM). I've already been reading the Pilots handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge PDF and up to chapter 5. Skimming through the books, I know that I have a LONG ways to go, but I'm prepared for it. :)

:confused: :confused: For now, does anyone think I need to pile on any more books?

I have the 2014 FAR/AIM book, the Private Pilot Test Prep 2014 which includes the FAA test supplement book. I also have the Practical Test Standards book as well - I've read the first half of this book last night - it's small.

My first lesson is Sunday and is scheduled for 3.5 hours. He said much of it will be on the ground and will include going over the pre-flight check in detail. According to the syllabus int he back of the SPFM, I only need to be up to chapter 9 for the few couple of flights. So, I think my book study is up to speed for a little bit. I'm in the process is changing positions in my company, so it'll be a couple weeks before things settle down enough for me to take half day off on the weekday (boss already knows and is aware). So, it'll be flight school on a weekend day for a bit, then after a few weeks, it'll jump to twice a week.

Cheers.
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NICE, keep watching the videos (WAY better then the books).

Get the FAR/AIM and have your CFI help put tabs in it with you

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...v-20&linkCode=sb1&camp=212353&creative=380553


I also like Visualized Flight Maneuvers, REALLY good drawings and explanations for all flight maneuvers Private - CFI.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...v-20&linkCode=sb1&camp=212353&creative=380553


I would also get the practice tests online to study for your written and get it out of the way. Once you average a 85% or higher you'll pass no worries, just be sure to run the updates.

When you take the practice tests, be sure to select the option to have it immediately show you the correct answer if you get it wrong, just keep taking the test over and over, you'll get it dont in a flash.

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/groundschool/private.asp
 
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Completed my first lesson at KEDU yesterday. Was great. 2.5 hours ground school with 1.1 hours on the hobbs.

The wind was 34513G21KT gusts. We took off runway 35 without issue. After passing 1500 feet, the air was smooth as could be. Landing was interesting, but we did it together and was a bit of a thrill, but never felt unsafe of uncomfortable. He said "well, that wasn't the best landing, but surely was far from the worst I've had with new students in wind." It's not normally this windy here.

After doing some medium and steep bank turns, climbing/descending turns, my CFI said I progressed rather fast and was ahead of his planned schedule of training for the day. We started into what would normally be the second day of training - practicing landing; go into landing speed, configuration, but then suddenly have to abort with an obstacle on a runway..However, instead of adding power, pull up to go into a stall then recover from the stall. We did that 3 times.

Was a great day. In my post-flight discussion, he said I need to work on attitude in turns, I kept wanting to climb slightly and not descend enough in my descending turns. I have an issue with looking at my airspeed/climb indicator too much and not looking out at the horizon for gain/loss. However, he did say that in general I do scan frequently outside for position/traffic. I think I just need to figure out where the horizon needs to be better during turns. I can maintain straight and level without issue and can trim fine. Overall, he said I did great and that everything is normal for the number of hours I have. :)

CApilot55: I'm a tall guy, hard to miss. I'm going to try to do training on Sundays and Wednesdays. http://www.warmy.com/People/Random-Shots-of-People/i-M82JKP3/0/M/IMG_2114-M.jpg (Yes, I cropped out my buddy from the pic...LOL)
 
Hope to see you at the open house at EDU on Saturday, Mitch. I'll be flying over from Yolo County in my CTSW.
 
That's a weird way to practice stalls.

The usual way is either to yank hard at full throttle, or to hold level with the throttle at idle.

I see a lot of value in a trim stall -- get set up for landing power off and full flap, then cram the throttle. But, there is a lot more risk to that, as the airplane will not recover on its own without a secondary stall, so I wouldn't recommend that on a second lesson.

I hope you're being taught correct go-arounds as well. IMO, that's the single most important procedure you learn, as a good go around can turn an accident scenario into a benign scenario, especially when initiated early.

Air very often smooths out above upwind peaks. It comes off the ocean usually pretty smooth, but gets mixed around by the mountains. 15 knot winds are not at all unusual in the afternoon, especially in summer. They make landings easier in some respects when they are right down the runway like that.
 
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@Old Geek: I just paid my dues yesterday - still waiting for my scheduling login, which should happen today now that the full weekday staff is back in office. :) I'll contact them for details for Saturday. Looking forward to this, thanks for letting me know!

@MAKG: Oh. We did power off stalls before the aborted landing - power off while holding altitude until stall. Sorry, I was trying to keep my last post brief and cut out some of the things we did. This was in addition to the stalls to kick it up a notch I guess. We did these at 2800 elevation (2730 AGL). We also did slow speed flight and trimmed for this..added some light bank turns too. We didn't practice landings/go arounds due to the high winds on the ground....we did them at altitude to get an idea of what to expect/handling.

I think my CFI is knowledgeable and safety conscious. I have confidence in him, his skills, and I feel that his teaching methods are compatible with how I learn.
 
The good/bad thing about KEDU is that it seems (at least most of the time I'm out there) that the winds are almost always within 10 degrees of the runway heading. On the plus side, you don't have to worry much about crosswind landings. On the down side, you don't get to practice crosswind landings.

Maybe I'll see you around. I'm going intensive next week (2x/day M-F) to get myself check ride ready.
 
That's a real common problem around the region. Fortunately, there are airports with cross runways not too far away like SAC and C83
 
Just this Sunday I flew my introductory flight with Sky Walk, Inc. who are based on KSAC. I also checked out the flying club at KEDU, but I'm personally drawn towards a Part 141 program (which Sky Walk has).
The flight was great (albeit a bit short), and the instructor and I were on a good level of communication.
Since this is the closest Part 141 school to where I live, I'll be signing up for their program once I get over a cold and am able to get my medical cert. :)
 
nbadal said:
Just this Sunday I flew my introductory flight with Sky Walk, Inc. who are based on KSAC. I also checked out the flying club at KEDU, but I'm personally drawn towards a Part 141 program (which Sky Walk has).
The flight was great (albeit a bit short), and the instructor and I were on a good level of communication.
Since this is the closest Part 141 school to where I live, I'll be signing up for their program once I get over a cold and am able to get my medical cert. :)
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Welcome to PoA! Good luck with your PPL.
 
Another entry in the log book, 1.3 hours flight time, .8 hours ground school. Take off, vastly improved - down the center line, good rotation speed/attitude then good Vy speed for best climb. Thanks to chair flying! I also vastly improved my radio skills throughout entire flight due to youtube + study time. I made all radio calls, including to the neighbor airport as my crosswind climb goes through their base and final (though, way above their pattern altitude - my instructor likes to be extra cautious and likes others to know where we are). Steep turns, slow flight w/turns, stalls power on & off. Power on stall was 'exciting', nearly put plane into a spin as I used the wrong rudder to bring a wing up and didn't get nose down enough. Instructor recovered, was fun to feel semi-weightless for a bit. I did 2 more and they were perfect. Right after my last power on stall my engine "died". Did ABCD - _A_irspeed to 65Kts, _B_est airfield - private crop duster strip - started doing circles to loose altitude, had plenty of time for _C_hecklist for engine recovery (7-UP: Gas to both, mixture, power, carb heat, master, mags, primer). _D_istress call (didn't make actual call, simulated emergency radio frequency + transponder change). On final for dinky dirt air strip (w/ a crab due to wind), performed go around with full power and returned to flight configuration. Did maneuvers at low altitude: circles around a fixed object and S flight maneuvers for perpendicular across a road. Not much cross wind, so I focused on altitude holding and keeping the turns even at low altitude. Even though I knew to get back to airport, had some time during flight- learned to use the GPS to point me back to home - which i was heading within a few degrees (wanted downwind leg, not land like helicopter). GPS in planes are 100% diff than anything else I've used: GEOCaching, bike, car, hiking, geo tagging. Made calls 5 miles out to 45 downwind, 3 miles, entering etc etc. Landing was better than last time - I would control and once in a while feel an input by instructor.

Overall, this flight was vastly better than previous flight. Said I was good and ahead of capabilities for my number of hours flown. Said holding altitude through turns and altitude loss in stalls (very little) was good. More reading assignments, more chair flying scheduled since my better half works 12 hour day shifts (darn doctors) and works late.

@nbadal: From what I've read, part 141 or not is not a big deal. Yes, you are required to do 5 more hours or something, but most people don't take their checkride at 40 hours with a 141 school. I have a syllabus and my CFI keeps track of my progress in my student papers - both what I did (separate from my pilot log book) and what I need to work on . KSAC is 12 miles closer to me, but about 5 minutes difference due to all freeway. Also, from what I've gathered, it's more important to find a good instructor than part 141 or not. I also compared final cost of school - KEDU was significantly cheaper. Since I can charge the Leaf at the airport, I get free miles in the car. :)
 
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