Opportunity of a lifetime, and GoPro help

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iMooniac
Hi folks,

I'm gonna be giving myself a helluva birthday present this year - I'm going to be flying a P-51 Mustang on July 26th. :goofy:

Since this is probably the only time I'll ever do it, I'd really like to document the experience properly. And by that, I mean with as many cameras as possible. :D

A little birdie has told me that I'll be getting a GoPro Hero 3 Black for my birthday as well, and I'll probably rent a couple more. Ideally, I'd like to mount at least three of them in the cockpit: One facing rearward with me in the frame, one facing forward, and one facing out to the side, down the wing.

Since I'll only have one chance to get this right, I want to draw upon others' experiences with the P-51 and with the GoPro cameras. Here's some questions, and if anyone has some suggestions to toss in, please do! (And yes, I know, I suck. ;))

* What's the best way to mount a neutral-density filter on the front-facing camera to minimize prop artifacts? Does anyone have one of these?

* What options are there for mounting cameras in the P-51? (I'll be speaking with the owner of the plane and getting his permission, of course, but I don't have the slightest clue what might be available or what to ask about.) I'm guessing that I'll probably be mounting them mostly on the canopy with suction mounts.

* What's the best way to minimize vibration problems? All the cameras will be inside.

I'm sure I'll think of more later!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm sure I'll think of more later!
Click to expand...

AKA, immediately.

* Have the firmware issues with the GoPros been worked out? Is there anything I can do to minimize the potential for one of the cameras to cut out during the flight?

Also, keep in mind I have *zero* experience with the GoPro cameras.
 
This may not help too much, but it is a great in-cockpit perspective of the P-51. This is where my buddy mounts his when he flies the Stang he is part owner in. Another great perspective would be right above your head, and above the pilots head looking back at you.

http://vimeo.com/67035807
 
flyingcheesehead said:
AKA, immediately.

* Have the firmware issues with the GoPros been worked out? Is there anything I can do to minimize the potential for one of the cameras to cut out during the flight?

Also, keep in mind I have *zero* experience with the GoPro cameras.
Click to expand...

The GoPro app is great handling multiple Hero3 cameras. Battery life is an issue. I would update the firmwares and make sure you have enough recording capacity, and battery life before you even mount the cameras in the plane. I would recommend sticking battery backpac's on as they will increase the battery life, but they are 50 bucks a pop. I am on the latest firmware, and I sometimes have preview issues when I use my iPhone, but on my iPad it works great controlling my cameras.
 
Ive no experience with a stang but I do with canopies.

First off in some parts of the canopy the suction cup will not want to stick because of the curvature so make sure its on there good and solid. (I had one fall twice in one flight.) Second the curvature of the canopy may create some snall distortion in the final videos and pictures and some odd reflections. Nothing too major but oh well. Third get some big memory cards because if youre shooting at 1080 or 1440 you will burn through memory.

Another option is doing a timelapse where the camera will take a picture like every half second and that could be cool.

Have fun. And yes you suck, epicly.
 
The GP blacks have issues with sometimes getting a dud. Everything is solvable either with firmware upgrade or getting a new camera, but tell the birdie you need the camera early to test.
Best mounting is the sticky mounts(all that Kirby Chambliss outside footage is done with sticky mounts) good luck getting the owner to play along.
 
I've already had one gopro replaced by the manufacturer. I'd suggest making sure it's fully charged, then remove and put back in the battery right before you're about to power it on, but that's just based on my experiences with the camera. as for 'renting' cameras, I can't remember who it is but one of the guys on PoA posted video with his brand new $100 last year's model contour that he got on amazon, can't go wrong with one or a few of those, then you'd own them. in any case, I agree with Danger....you suck.
 
Format all your memory cards right before your flight to make sure they are completely empty. I learned this trick the hard way and missed some awesome footage. The wifi can be finicky with the hero 2 no experience with the 3. Just make sure you are familiar with it and everything syncs up before the big day if you choose to use it. With the hero 3 film with 60fps to get rid of the vibration issues. Uses a lot of memory and power but your video will be smoother. I think the 3 will use 64GB card which will help with HD 60 frame video. Hope you have a decent computer to handle the video.
 
As long as you know you suck there's not much I can add other than to ask: Is a GoPro the best question you could come up with to no-so-subtly gloat? :D
 
bartmc said:
......other than to ask: Is a GoPro the best question you could come up with to no-so-subtly gloat? :D
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hahaha, or how about "does this badass P-51 'stanger make me look fat?"
 
The biggest thing about the post is that Kent is going to own something electronic not made by Apple. That's the real story here.
 
I own two hero2,(had three but one was lost) and two hero3 blacks, as well as a new pivothead glasses. The hero2 in my experience are a better and more reliable camera than the hero3, but are more heat sensitive. Just upload the latest firmware for my hero3 and they seem to be more reliable. My experience is that these cameras know when there is a money video and tend to conk out at those times. I agree with using the battery pack. Use as large an SD card as you can get, and make sure they are empty when you put them in. As to placement, GoPro strongly advises against mounting any camera on the outside of the plane secondary to FAA issues. The CEO and founder was quoted a few months back in EAA magazine and basically said it is something he strongly discourages. If you want the article PM me. The article is a pretty good synopsis on the use of inflight cameras. A fully charged battery+back up can last as short as an hour and as long as three hours or more depending on your settings. As to Bluetooth control, I would not use it. I would place the cameras, turn them on, and forget about them, and just enjoy the flight. The FOV is such that you can estimate where they are filming by where they are pointed. If you have time I would practice with them and get familiar with them before using them in the Mustang. They are pretty simple, but familiarity will increase the chances of having quality video results.

As for the neutral density filters, I tried them with the hero2 but lost some quality in the video. The prop artifact is really not so terrible, and I think somewhat adds to the video. I have no experience with the filters for the hero3.

As for mounting I would mount one forward, one back, and maybe one on yourself(there are head mounts, and chest mounts available). If you have additional GoPros side mounts would also be cool.

PM me if you have any questions.
 
Clarification: I'm not planning on mounting any cameras outside the airplane - I don't have the stomach for that. Maybe when it's old and I want an excuse to buy the latest and greatest. ;)

EdFred said:
The biggest thing about the post is that Kent is going to own something electronic not made by Apple. That's the real story here.
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Hah! If Apple made standalone video cameras, I'd probably have one. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Clarification: I'm not planning on mounting any cameras outside the airplane - I don't have the stomach for that. Maybe when it's old and I want an excuse to buy the latest and greatest. ;)


;)
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Might check with the owner/pilot. Many Mustangs have digital camera mounts (internal & external) installed on them.

Also, I've seen a GoPro external suction mount survive 250kts on a Mustang wing (repeatedly).
 
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Honestly I think I'd set up one good camera and forget about it.

Any brain cells used for thinking about documenting wouldn't be available to experience the best ride in the coolest airplane ever. I'd want to be 100% present for the experience.

Don't take anything away from savoring the experience...

Oh and...

Dear Kent,

You suck.

Love, PoA.
 
Hello Flyingcheesehead,

I designed and sell a mount to adapt a gopro camera to the strut of a cessna. While that may not be of help to you, what may be is that the mount can be configured to also mount to any tubular structure between 1.13" and 2.75". I am unfamiliar with the configuration of the added jump seat in a P51, but if there is any tubing that falls within that range my mount should work. I have attached the mount to the roll bar located between the pilots of a T6 and it worked well. If there is any sort of roll bar for the rear passenger area then that may work for you. Another interesting vantage point would be to mount it to the control stick below the hand grip looking back at you. You might want to ask the pilot the diameter of the stick. Since this is a one time experience, if you like I can send you a mount to borrow with a Gopro 2 attached and a 16 gig card.

However, Take what Denver pilot has said for advice. Don't fret too much trying to overdue it with cameras capturing everything but instead just enjoy the experience.

If I can be of help let me know by PM. Below is a pic of the mount in the Tubular config.

For Strut config have a look here:http://imgur.com/a/GZHA1#0

Best regards,

Marc

DoWiGzB.jpg
 
I have the older Hero HD's but for the length of flight you're likely to get the battery and a 32GB card is probably going to be fine. I have a whole sack full of assorted mounts: Helmet strap mounts, stick on mounts, handle bar/roll bar mounts. Even the box that the camera came in can be canabalized to make mount parts.
 
Kent - you're killing me - I can't decide if I am envious or what.... Your CC trip in the 182, stewarding the DA-40 purchase for the club, The Mooney you're "selling" ( ;-) ) and now a Mustang ride..... All while finishing an EE, meeting the gal of your dreams, etc etc.

Good for you.

I am reminded of your "financial planning" thread and all I have to say is this: I don't know how you do it, but I wish my "financial planning" priorities were as fun as yours!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Since this is probably the only time I'll ever do it, I'd really like to document the experience properly. And by that, I mean with as many cameras as possible. :D
Click to expand...

If you haven't already done so, verify that whoever you will fly with will allow you to mount cameras. The joint by me doesn't.

flyingcheesehead said:
A little birdie has told me that I'll be getting a GoPro Hero 3 Black for my birthday as well, and I'll probably rent a couple more. Ideally, I'd like to mount at least three of them in the cockpit: One facing rearward with me in the frame, one facing forward, and one facing out to the side, down the wing.
Click to expand...

This sound like plenty, and the configuration I would also choose.

flyingcheesehead said:
* What's the best way to mount a neutral-density filter on the front-facing camera to minimize prop artifacts? Does anyone have one of these?
Click to expand...

Experiment with this prior to the flight! I have had trouble getting good color with the ND filter a buddy uses. You might be better off shooting 1080/60fps. The fast frame rate helps prop artifacts considerably. Maybe even shoot 720/120fps on the forward looking camera.

flyingcheesehead said:
* What's the best way to minimize vibration problems? All the cameras will be inside.
Click to expand...

Vibration will be considerably reduced simple thanks to the decision to mount inside the plane. The other major factor that people often overlook is the distance between the attachment point and the camera. Said simply, put as few as those plastic joints between the mount and the camera as possible. The VHB pads (often turned 90 degrees from how you might initially think to glue them) are *far* better than the suction cub, but I mention that for others more than for you. Unless the owner already has VHB pads on his plane I'm sure that won't be an option for you.

Someone else mentioned firmware: Yes the gopro QA group seems to have collectively taken a lunch break beginning the middle of 2012, but the April 2013 firmware updates seem to be reasonably stable again.

Another person mentioned battery life: The gopro3 battery life isn't fantastic. But some people are getting out their ipads and watching the preview for the entire time. Preview seems to eat batteries *very* quickly. My operation (again, perhaps more useful to others than you) is to only turn the cameras on when I'm actually going to shoot (i.e. I'm not a person that desires to record every minute of every flight, the last thing I need is additional hundreds of hours of cruise footage I'll never use) and I don't use preview except to adjust the aim of the cameras when I mount them. In that style of operation I've never had the batteries poop out before the fuel.

For you, I would recommend doing extensive testing before the flight then make sure everything is charged/formatted, mount the cameras, push record and don't think about them again until you dismount with a big grin on your face.
 
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I have nothing to add to this conversation in the way of GoPro advice. Helluva birthday present indeed! Enjoy!

Also, you suck.

;)
 
jhausch said:
Kent - you're killing me - I can't decide if I am envious or what.... Your CC trip in the 182, stewarding the DA-40 purchase for the club, The Mooney you're "selling" ( ;-) ) and now a Mustang ride..... All while finishing an EE, meeting the gal of your dreams, etc etc.

Good for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm definitely doing very well. :D

rwellner98 said:
Someone else mentioned firmware: Yes the gopro QA group seems to have collectively taken a lunch break beginning the middle of 2012, but the April 2013 firmware updates seem to be reasonably stable again.
Click to expand...

Good to hear!

Another person mentioned battery life: The gopro3 battery life isn't fantastic. But some people are getting out their ipads and watching the preview for the entire time. Preview seems to eat batteries *very* quickly. My operation (again, perhaps more useful to others than you) is to only turn the cameras on when I'm actually going to shoot (i.e. I'm not a person that desires to record every minute of every flight, the last thing I need is additional hundreds of hours of cruise footage I'll never use) and I don't use preview except to adjust the aim of the cameras when I mount them. In that style of operation I've never had the batteries poop out before the fuel.
Click to expand...

Good - I don't think I'll be using preview except to aim either - I will definitely be enjoying the flight! The cameras are going to be a set 'em and forget 'em thing that will allow me to relive it later. The flight should be about 45 minutes, so I expect to have the cameras running for maybe an hour total, probably at 1080/30fps.

For you, I would recommend doing extensive testing before the flight then make sure everything is charged/formatted, mount the cameras, push record and don't think about them again until you dismount with a big grin on your face.
Click to expand...

That's the plan... Thanks for the very helpful post!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
AKA, immediately.

* Have the firmware issues with the GoPros been worked out? Is there anything I can do to minimize the potential for one of the cameras to cut out during the flight?

Also, keep in mind I have *zero* experience with the GoPro cameras.
Click to expand...

It's te black that had all the issues, not recording, freezing up etc.

We use them for work and a few of the guys have upgraded down to the hero 3 silver.
 
I had these issues with my Hero3 black but it seems to be behaving better now with the last firmware upgrade. Unfortunately, it was intermittent in nature, so time will tell.
 
Lucky dog! I was given a sortie in Stallion 51's Mustang for a birthday a few years back but had to ask for a refund when the wife objected (we were newlyweds, she was concerned for my safety, blah-ditty-blah - and YES, I know what you're thinking, but a refund was cheaper than a divorce).

Anyhow, about the Go Pro and the ND filter - I'm using the Hero 3 Black and really don't have too many issues with prop blur. (A slower shutterspeed is evidently the key, if you can dial that in and get good results).

Here's my video page - these are all with the H3Black with the most current firmware at the time the video was shot: http://www.youtube.com/user/trevorbair/videos

Nothing truly wonky going on with the prop blur - sure it's not perfect, but I've deemed the ND filter not worth it because of the results I'm getting without it.

DEFINITELY get the battery backpack though. The regular battery life sucks and you don't want to be back on the ground only to find that the video crapped out midway through your flight. :( (been there, done that)
 
V1-Vr-V2 said:
Lucky dog! I was given a sortie in Stallion 51's Mustang for a birthday a few years back but had to ask for a refund when the wife objected (we were newlyweds, she was concerned for my safety, blah-ditty-blah - and YES, I know what you're thinking, but a refund was cheaper than a divorce).
Click to expand...

Well, you've had a chance to educate her about aviation safety by now, so you should be going on your ride soon, right? ;) (Have you ever taken her flying?)

Anyhow, about the Go Pro and the ND filter - I'm using the Hero 3 Black and really don't have too many issues with prop blur. (A slower shutterspeed is evidently the key, if you can dial that in and get good results).
Click to expand...

I've heard that's why the ND filter works. I'll have to play with the settings when I get it and see what I can do without the filter.

Here's my video page - these are all with the H3Black with the most current firmware at the time the video was shot: http://www.youtube.com/user/trevorbair/videos

Nothing truly wonky going on with the prop blur - sure it's not perfect, but I've deemed the ND filter not worth it because of the results I'm getting without it.
Click to expand...

That actually looks a lot better than I was expecting - I really hate the "venetian blinds" version of the prop, and your videos seem to show a more normal prop motion, even if it is way slowed down.

I sure do wish these cameras worked more like my Canon HV20, though - It shows the prop in a very lifelike fashion. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64bOYdPMsZg

DEFINITELY get the battery backpack though. The regular battery life sucks and you don't want to be back on the ground only to find that the video crapped out midway through your flight. :( (been there, done that)
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What settings were you using? I guess I'll be testing that, too - I'd rather not have to rent THREE battery backpacks!

Inverted said:
Order one of these to get the audio!

http://www.crazedpilot.com/record-a...o-3-camera-hero3-and-gopro3-to-your-intercom/
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And mute the beautiful rumble of the hot-water 12? No way! I'm gonna go with the tried and true earbud-in-earcup method - That's how I got the audio in the YouTube vid linked above, and you can see that someone even commented that I had great audio!
 
douglas393 said:
As to placement, GoPro strongly advises against mounting any camera on the outside of the plane secondary to FAA issues. The CEO and founder was quoted a few months back in EAA magazine and basically said it is something he strongly discourages. If you want the article PM me.
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You've made that offer before in other threads.....but never sent this supposed article.
 
Kent, if you are planning/expecting to do any maneuvers, I'd recommend against the headband/helmet strap mounts. I've seen too many YouTube videos where the person is constantly reaching up to adjust the headband while yanking and banking.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Kent, if you are planning/expecting to do any maneuvers, I'd recommend against the headband/helmet strap mounts. I've seen too many YouTube videos where the person is constantly reaching up to adjust the headband while yanking and banking.
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You might ask what maneuvers you can do and associated G forces. I have no issues with the head strap mount in the cub. zero to maybe 2.5G
 
dell30rb said:
You might ask what maneuvers you can do and associated G forces. I have no issues with the head strap mount in the cub. zero to maybe 2.5G
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I believe you....there is a big difference in the G's and abruptness of some maneuvers you might pull in a typical cub flight vs a P-51:D
 
Are you going to be doing this at one of the commercial entities like Stallion 51?

http://www.stallion51.com/

I imagine they have everything you need already available.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I believe you....there is a big difference in the G's and abruptness of some maneuvers you might pull in a typical cub flight vs a P-51:D
Click to expand...

Very true but the cub is a clipped wing conversion and its good for spins, aileron rolls and stuff. Now that I think about it, I have flown with the head strap in a super decathlon at maybe -1 to +3 G's.

Yeah the P51 is certainly another animal, but i'd expect the flight to contain only gentleman's aerobatics. Given the opportunity I would ask the pilot if we could wring it out a little bit :)
 
Fearless Tower said:
I believe you....there is a big difference in the G's and abruptness of some maneuvers you might pull in a typical cub flight vs a P-51:D
Click to expand...

Not really, ever seen flying farmer acts? :) These days people fly P-51's like they're made of glass. Understandable. Head strap in the Pitts for the Drift HD170 has worked fine for me in the Pitts through +6/-4.5G, snap rolls, etc.
 
whifferdill said:
Not really, ever seen flying farmer acts? :) These days people fly P-51's like they're made of glass. Understandable. Head strap in the Pitts for the Drift HD170 has worked fine for me in the Pitts through +6/-4.5G, snap rolls, etc.
Click to expand...
It could be how the headstrap is being used. Now that I think about it, the videos that I have seen where the strap constantly is slipping are using the headband over a jet style helmet (ie the band slipping on a slick surface). If you use the band against your bare head or a cloth flight helmet, it probably works better.
 
I have only used a headstrap once, but I had zero issues in the Pitts doing acro. The Mustang won't pour the Gs on as quickly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It could be how the headstrap is being used. Now that I think about it, the videos that I have seen where the strap constantly is slipping are using the headband over a jet style helmet (ie the band slipping on a slick surface). If you use the band against your bare head or a cloth flight helmet, it probably works better.
Click to expand...

The gopro strap is like an octopus on your head. Wide straps with sticky silicone bead all over it. Gives me a headache after about 30 minutes.
 
dell30rb said:
The gopro strap is like an octopus on your head. Wide straps with sticky silicone bead all over it. Gives me a headache after about 30 minutes.
Click to expand...
Interesting....I wonder if the videos I saw were using some other non-GP brand strap.
 
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