Tragic VFR flight into IMC

[Unregistered]

Ok Unregistered thank you for sharing that. I think it would be VERY helpful to the board VFR pilots, IR pilots and even CFIs to hear how exactly you got yourself into that situation. To me it would seem obvious to a VFR pilot that he was heading into IMC before he got there. If thats not the case we can all learn from your experience.( I guess Haze is an exception) Not being critical here. But if you can tell us what led you to get into the IMC perhaps those VFR pilots can avoid your mistake and perhaps your story can better help a CFI prepare his PPL student to avoid IMC.

Well, sort of. I had landed outside of a major KY city and re-checked the weather at their terminal. Had considered just getting a rental car as I was less than 50 NM from my destination, tho the weather still showed VFR and marginal VFR. Ceilings would have allowed (barely) the flight. my route was outside the area for occ. mountain obs. ... at least on the map.

Nobody up there has a yard stick, and the bottoms of crummy clouds are hardly flat sheets, so staying below and side to side at legal separation is hardly a science. Yes, I know I could have just flown well below the minimums, and maybe that's one of the lessons I learned here. I also learned that gray on gray under gray makes for poor depth perception. Anyway, when I got to the point where the ceilings were coming down and the hills were coming up and I could no longer rationally believe that I could maintain safe separation to my destination, I started to assess my exit strategy (ie east or west turn). There are some mountains with tall towers on them, and although they shouldn't be near my route based on my pre-flight review, at that moment I was not in a position to pull out the sectional to verify. I hemmed and hawed for about a minute running through scenarios, and by that point I had to decide if I was going to get real close to the clouds or the ground...i chose the clouds. Started my standard rate turn just at the same time that I entered the cloud....and got the leans I mentioned earlier. Luckily, the time spent under the hood proved very useful, and I was able to complete the turn with a small descent without it getting too much more hairier. Made it into a small strip still legal, and the operator was very nice old guy who probably knew I had busted regs just to get down to where he was. Still, had a story about his younger flying days that made me realize how much one can learn in a very short and scary period of time.

In retrospect, I should have trusted my instinct while I was on the ground checking weather and stayed there. It was definitely get-there-itis coupled with too much trust in the technology. If I had gone on, I am sure I would have been in all IFR weather, despite what the Metars said about the area being VFR/MVFR.

 

[jesse]

So which person are you driving in Icy conditions????

The fast one in the little car that never goes in the ditch and laughs at the SUV's with their fancy four wheel drive getting pulled out.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

So which person are you driving in Icy conditions????
Would get in an airplane with this last person??

Jon

The one with the fancy 4x4 (or 4x6), with studs all around, and carrying 2 sets of ice cleat chains in the back, trying to find a way over the sidewalk or the median to get around the other kind spinning on the ice or bogged down in snow...

 

[corjulo]

You honestly believe that this should be required? How about, instead, we require 10 hours of IMC avoidance? I think tacking 60 hours onto the PPL requirements is quite excessive.

Of maybe more aggressive attitude recovery, including spins. Best $1000 I EVER spent in aviation was a course in extreme attitude recovery at Hanscom field outside Boston. Until you've been upside down, or in a real spins or grave yard spiral you just don't comprehend how easy it is to get disoriented.

Still, very sad.

 

[Unregistered]

Last week I flew to NC ahead of front (no lightning just rain) and below the cloud deck it was very turbulent. We landed to see what the clouds looked like farther south and possibly go around the worst of it. Clearer skies were south of us moving north and we left 15min after a Citation (going the same direction as us) who reported to us 2500ft base and 4000ft tops and another broken deck at 10000. As soon as we got to the middle of the mountains the clouds below us closed up and were going higher so we turned around only to find the same thing behind us. We decided to head away from the front (east) and hope that the tops would go down again. 10 min later we had climbed to 9500ft (still between cloud decks) when we had no choice but to go into clouds (I did not want to descend because of mountain peaks around 6500). After 30 min-45 min (it seemed like 3-4hrs) I figured we should be past the mountains even with the 25kt head winds and started to descend and broke out at 4500 just past the mountains into calm air. Neither I nor the other pilot in the plane had gone above the clouds much and both of us were watching the clouds below us. I have no idea where we screwed up but both of us are going to start on out IFR tickets in Nov. I don't get much of a "seat of the pants" feeling so I did not have a problem with the "leans" but I am staying below any cloud deck thicker than 50% till I have my IFR ticket.

 

[Greebo]

Unregistered: You're a very lucky pilot indeed.

I have no idea where we screwed up

If I understand you, it was probably with the decision to launch when you had a 2500 reported base and you knew you were going to mountains with hard decks of 6500.

I don't get much of a "seat of the pants" feeling so I did not have a problem with the "leans" but I am staying below any cloud deck thicker than 50% till I have my IFR ticket.

I'm not sure what the seat of the pants has to do with the leans - I'm pretty sure nothing. I had a convincing demonstration a few years back - sat down in a simulator which rotated SO slowly you could not feel it moving, while the visual display showed straight and level flight. I couldn't feel a darn thing -UNTIL the "controller" told me to ident and I turned my head to find the ident button and my head went LOOOPEY DOOPEY.

Nevertheless the decision to stay out of the clouds is a good one.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Is there a video of the plane's airframe failing. I need to see it just so I know this accident really happened. The video would make it real for me.

 

[AdamZ]

Last week I flew to NC ahead of front (no lightning just rain) and below the cloud deck it was very turbulent. We landed to see what the clouds looked like farther south and possibly go around the worst of it. Clearer skies were south of us moving north and we left 15min after a Citation (going the same direction as us) who reported to us 2500ft base and 4000ft tops and another broken deck at 10000. As soon as we got to the middle of the mountains the clouds below us closed up and were going higher so we turned around only to find the same thing behind us. We decided to head away from the front (east) and hope that the tops would go down again. 10 min later we had climbed to 9500ft (still between cloud decks) when we had no choice but to go into clouds (I did not want to descend because of mountain peaks around 6500). After 30 min-45 min (it seemed like 3-4hrs) I figured we should be past the mountains even with the 25kt head winds and started to descend and broke out at 4500 just past the mountains into calm air. Neither I nor the other pilot in the plane had gone above the clouds much and both of us were watching the clouds below us. I have no idea where we screwed up but both of us are going to start on out IFR tickets in Nov. I don't get much of a "seat of the pants" feeling so I did not have a problem with the "leans" but I am staying below any cloud deck thicker than 50% till I have my IFR ticket.

wow lucky indeed. I suppose you did not report your entering IMC to ATC. I do appreciate your posting this. But please understand that you endangered not only yourself but other aircraft as well who were on valid IFR flight plans. don't make a bad situation worse by by not reporting your situation 30-45 min of VFR into IMC is a LONG time. Glad it worked out and that you learned and will be getting your IR. Again thank you for the post.

 

[Aztec Driver]

Last week I flew to NC ahead of front (no lightning just rain) and below the cloud deck it was very turbulent. We landed to see what the clouds looked like farther south and possibly go around the worst of it. Clearer skies were south of us moving north and we left 15min after a Citation (going the same direction as us) who reported to us 2500ft base and 4000ft tops and another broken deck at 10000. As soon as we got to the middle of the mountains the clouds below us closed up and were going higher so we turned around only to find the same thing behind us. We decided to head away from the front (east) and hope that the tops would go down again. 10 min later we had climbed to 9500ft (still between cloud decks) when we had no choice but to go into clouds (I did not want to descend because of mountain peaks around 6500). After 30 min-45 min (it seemed like 3-4hrs) I figured we should be past the mountains even with the 25kt head winds and started to descend and broke out at 4500 just past the mountains into calm air. Neither I nor the other pilot in the plane had gone above the clouds much and both of us were watching the clouds below us. I have no idea where we screwed up but both of us are going to start on out IFR tickets in Nov. I don't get much of a "seat of the pants" feeling so I did not have a problem with the "leans" but I am staying below any cloud deck thicker than 50% till I have my IFR ticket.

Please get your Instrument ticket. This is one of my worst fears when I am in the clouds. I frequently get VFR traffic called out to me when I am in IMC. This just scares me. Think about it for a minute. How do YOU know there is noone out there in the clouds, since YOU are not talking to the controller and identified on their scope? You could be headed for disaster and not know it until it is too late.

 

[ScottM]

Last week I flew to NC ahead of front (no lightning just rain) and below the cloud deck it was very turbulent. We landed to see what the clouds looked like farther south and possibly go around the worst of it. Clearer skies were south of us moving north and we left 15min after a Citation (going the same direction as us) who reported to us 2500ft base and 4000ft tops and another broken deck at 10000. As soon as we got to the middle of the mountains the clouds below us closed up and were going higher so we turned around only to find the same thing behind us. We decided to head away from the front (east) and hope that the tops would go down again. 10 min later we had climbed to 9500ft (still between cloud decks) when we had no choice but to go into clouds (I did not want to descend because of mountain peaks around 6500). After 30 min-45 min (it seemed like 3-4hrs) I figured we should be past the mountains even with the 25kt head winds and started to descend and broke out at 4500 just past the mountains into calm air. Neither I nor the other pilot in the plane had gone above the clouds much and both of us were watching the clouds below us. I have no idea where we screwed up but both of us are going to start on out IFR tickets in Nov. I don't get much of a "seat of the pants" feeling so I did not have a problem with the "leans" but I am staying below any cloud deck thicker than 50% till I have my IFR ticket.

You are lucky and thanks for sharing this.

Your probable mistake was launching into conditions where you would only one out and that out was at risk. I also would like to know when you did make the decision to go into the clouds did you declare and emergancy to ATC? That would have added a bit of safety to your flight as there may have been IFR traffic up there. Also going into clouds is not always the best choice especially if neither of your were IFR rated.

 

[Unregistered]

Trust me. This crash happened. I have intimate knowledge. I'm surprised nobody commented on the fact that this PP put auto gasoline into his plane.

 

[Steve Foley]

Trust me. This crash happened. I have intimate knowledge. I'm surprised nobody commented on the fact that this PP put auto gasoline into his plane.

It's unfortunate that anyone has to have intimate knowledge of these things.

Lots of Cessna 150's have an autogas STC, allowing them to use automotive gasoline. The NTSB didn't feel this was a cause of the crash.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's failure to maintain aircraft control during climb, which resulted in exceeding the design stress limits of the airplane, and an in-flight breakup. Factors associated with the accident were the pilot's continued visual flight rules flight into instrument meteorological conditions, and his spatial disorientation.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Trust me. This crash happened. I have intimate knowledge.

The person who made that comment was banned from this board long ago. Don't worry about it.

 

[Palmpilot]

I sincerely think 60 minutes of flight in ACTUAL IMC should be required of all student pilots. Foggles/hoods do NOT simulate actual IMC conditions. The hour I spent in the clouds (with my CFI) was some of the most valuable training I received. I was POSITIVE I would never have the leans or any spatial disorientation, but the minute we lost the horizon my left wing started to dip. That hour of training made an indelible impression. If the FAA won't require it, CFIs should make every effort to figure out how to make it happen for their students. It might help keep a few folks safely on the ground.
Elizabeth

After 20 years of instrument flying, I got the leans a few months ago. I had to just ignore it and keep following the instruments. I think that was even under the hood.

It would be tough to get actual IMC in some parts of the country. We were in a drought when I got my instrument rating, although we did take advantage of IMC when it was available. I think it helped that a lot of my instrument training was at night.

There is a bit of a fear factor that I have noticed on occasion when entering IMC. I deal with it by just pretending I'm under the hood or in a simulator, and/or by using it as motivation to make sure I do what I have been taught.

Maybe the subject of what it's like in IMC vs under the hood needs to be part of the syllabus somehow.

This accident makes me appreciate what a vote of confidence it was when a cousin volunteered to be my first passenger the day after my PP checkride!

[Oops - I didn't notice that this was a revival of an old thread!]

 

[airguy]

Even truly dark night conditions can be very disorientating. I fly a 172 off an unlit strip in very rural farm country, nearest town is 500 people 10 miles away. I took off recently at 4:30am on a moonless night, as soon as the nose rotated up and I lost the landing light on the strip, everything outside was DARK dark. No horizon reference, no visual references at all, I was immediately on the gauges just as much as if I was in the clouds, I was effectively IMC. I had kind of figured that would happen before I took off, but I was surprised with how rapid and complete the transition was. At around 500 AGL or so I had a decent horizon to work with but that initial climbout was interesting.