Self-fueling - do you enter your N-number?

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
14,210
Location
Midlothian, TX
Display Name

Display name:
3Green
Do you enter your N-number at the self-service pump when the computer lets you do so?

If not, here's two real-life snippets from one of the Van's Aircraft RV homebuilder groups I read that might convince you to change your habits and take the few moments it requires to punch in your N-number on the receipt:

Case 1 said:
Sometimes I ***** (to myself) about the zillon key strokes required to make a fuel purchases, but that N# for tracebillity(spelling?) makes sense now. A friend's RV6 was filled with traces of Jet A at CIC years ago and he got a new engine because he had the N# on the receipt. but I do admit I am guilty of puting bogus N# just to get through the transaction faster, I will not do this anymore.


Case 2 said:
This email is to caution all pilots to check their credit card statements for fuel bills.

On Aug 22, I fueled up at POC (Brackett). The price was $4.00, which was competitively low at the time. I hadn't fueled there in the previous 2+ years, but the price was compelling and the location was convenient. Hunky dory.

Got my credit card statement, and I saw *two* charges on Aug 22 from "AMER A/P CORP/BRACKETT LA VERNE CA." The first one was for $71.76, which was my purchase. The second one was for $114.88, which was not my purchase.

I called American Airports Corp at 909-593-1395, and the gentleman I spoke to was helpful. He looked up the transactions by the date and amounts, and he saw that my N number was on the first purchase, but not on the 2nd purchase. He is refunding my credit card (obviously). What's odd is that he said the purchases were an hour and a half apart, and that he has never seen anything like this (of course).

Anyway, the points I want to make here are:

1. Always enter your N number at the point of sale if it lets you. There are multiple reasons for doing this...I remember hearing a case about a fuel company paying for the overhaul of engines damaged by a bad batch fuel, and they tracked the owners down by N numbers they entered at the point of sale. And obviously in my case, it allowed the company to distinguish my own purchase from a fraudulent (accidental) purchase...ironically, in this case, thanks ALSO go to the OTHER pilot who entered his N number.

2. At the risk of stating the obvious, check your credit card statement for this type of thing. I always checked it before, but this hammered home why I do.

Something to consider!!
 
Last edited:
I think it is a bit of a delay, but vanity takes over. I type in the N number loud and proud. How many 1957 Apaches are still out there cruising over Wisconsin and Illinois?:blueplane:
Yesterday it seemed like I was the only airplane in the sky over Wisconsin. Although there were a few GAs buzzing around Chicago-DuPage. Thanks to Chicago Approach, I had advisories.
So I put my N number in. But with big brother nosing into everything these days, I wonder sometimes how the data could be used for mischief.
ApacheBob
 
If the airport says they have a landing fee, and no one is around and the fuel pump asks for an N number, I get temporarily dyslexic. I figure if something happens, I can explain that one away. :D

Sorry Thomas and Janice!
 
N2212R said:
If the airport says they have a landing fee, and no one is around and the fuel pump asks for an N number, I get temporarily dyslexic. I figure if something happens, I can explain that one away. :D

Sorry Thomas and Janice!

Ha ha ha! I wonder if Bob could successfully argued that he didn't land, he just re-fueled in a hover. :rofl:
 
I don't understand why folks don't like paying a reasonable landing fee. You're getting the use of a megadollar airport, but griping about $5 to help keep the runway paved so you can land there whenever you want? I just don't get it.

Sure, I think landing fees should be waived for some reasonable minimum fuel purchase, and I get grumpy about unreasonable charges, like the $41 in landing, ramp, and handling fees it costs to land at BWI to visit the FSDO, and the 17 gallon minimum fuel purchase to waive the $20 "handling fee" -- I just don't burn that much in the 45 minutes it takes to fly there. But supporting airports is important to having airports, and like every other operation around, they need money to stay open. If the fee is reasonable, just pay it, lest the next time you visit you find the runway either crumbling or yellow-X'd or turned into a housing development.
 
I generally enter my tail # if prompted. At Venice FL, the FBO I buy fuel from lets me park for free on his ramp so I want him to know when I buy fuel.

The self serve pump at my home base doesn't request tail numbers.

-lance
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't understand why folks don't like paying a reasonable landing fee.

Because I already paid a 6% use tax, yearly registration fee, and fuel taxes that are supposed to be supporting the airports and ATC. It is not reasonable IMHO.
 
I just paid $30 in car parking fees (same day) to visit people in two different downtown areas. $15 apiece for >1 hour of parking.

A $5 fee at a large airport is cheap.....

In other words, I agree with Ron, as long as it's reasonable, I'm OK with a small fee. Outrageous and unreasonable fees are a different matter.

(And yes, Scott, in many areas there is personal property tax on cars, too).
 
But I don't buy my gas at a parking garage. If I DON'T buy fuel and the fee is a few bucks, I'm ok with it.

The one's that get me are the resort places. I fly in, stay the night, pay for outrageous food prices, and golf, and they still hit me with a landing fee.
 
wsuffa said:
I just paid $30 in car parking fees (same day) to visit people in two different downtown areas. $15 apiece for >1 hour of parking.
Were those private parking garage on private property or tax payer supported government run garages?? I see a difference betwen the two scenarios.


Want to know what is really outragous are the landing fees int eh UK. You pey per landing, just think about what happens during touch and goes. Each one is charged, some of the rates are about 15pounds each or about $25/landing.
 
Last edited:
I put the N number in because the FBO credits the fuel sale back to the rental fee, presuming you have the N number there to show it was really your sale.
 
N2212R said:
But I don't buy my gas at a parking garage. If I DON'T buy fuel and the fee is a few bucks, I'm ok with it.

The one's that get me are the resort places. I fly in, stay the night, pay for outrageous food prices, and golf, and they still hit me with a landing fee.
And if you drive in to Mickey Mouseland, 6 Flags, Knotts Berry Farm, Universal Studios or any number of other attractions, pay a ridiculous fee for entrance and still pay a huge toll for parking, what's the difference? Not saying it's right, but it's the way it is.
 
smigaldi said:
Were those private parking garage on private property or tax payer supported government run garages?? I see a difference betwen the two scenarios.

Yes. One was gov't run/supported. The other not. I also paid a highway toll, too, on a gov't-built road.

Actually, the FBOs have to pay a concession fee to the cities, much like rental cars and other services. The concession fees and taxes can be so outrageous that they have to pass them along. FOr a good example of the sorts of fees that apply to a rental car, the Washington National Airport bid documents are online on the MWAA site. The companies bid the annual concession fee (with a minimum guarantee), and the Airport Authority requires an additional $2.50 per day fee. It adds up.

As I said, I object to outrageous fees, but I will point out that a lot of them apply to cars, too. Tax the tourist who doesn't vote.

And we still pay them.

Want to know what is really outragous are the landing fees int eh UK. You pey per landing, just think about what happens during touch and goes. Each one is charged, some of the rates are about 15pounds each or about $25/landing.

The UK is outrageous, as is Italy. When I went flying with someone at Linate, we were over $100 US in fees before we even climed into the airplane....
 
I don't mind a reasonable fee either. Especially when FBOs at large airports are accomodating piston poppers who generally speaking, are much more of a pain in the FBO's neck than the few dollars of 100LL fuel that they buy are worth.
 
wsuffa said:
I just paid $30 in car parking fees (same day) to visit people in two different downtown areas. $15 apiece for >1 hour of parking.

I had to attend a business meeting in New Orleans and stayed at the Hilton. When I checked out I was charged $25 a day for parking in their garage. You would think that a $200.00 a night room would get you free parking.:dunno:
 
Dean said:
I had to attend a business meeting in New Orleans and stayed at the Hilton. When I checked out I was charged $25 a day for parking in their garage. You would think that a $200.00 a night room would get you free parking.:dunno:
You did not land on "Free Parking" you landed on "Boardwalk":yes:
 
Dean said:
I had to attend a business meeting in New Orleans and stayed at the Hilton. When I checked out I was charged $25 a day for parking in their garage. You would think that a $200.00 a night room would get you free parking.:dunno:

Gee, they only charge $18/night to park at the Hilton in downtown Portland (Oregon). :D Don't know what it is for this hotel in Stockholm. It's right across the street (well, a block away) from the train station for the train to the airport. Right on top of a subway station that got us to our meetings. Car? Don't need no stinking car in Stockholm.

It'll be nice to head home in the morning...
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't understand why folks don't like paying a reasonable landing fee. You're getting the use of a megadollar airport, but griping about $5 to help keep the runway paved so you can land there whenever you want? I just don't get it.
Go take a look at the comments section on Airnav for Catalina airport. People complaining about $20 to land at a privately owned airport! That doesn't get any income from fuel or maintenance sales. Good Grief.
 
jkaduk said:
Go take a look at the comments section on Airnav for Catalina airport. People complaining about $20 to land at a privately owned airport! That doesn't get any income from fuel or maintenance sales. Good Grief.

We don't charge a landing fee at our public use privately owned airport.
 
N2212R said:
We don't charge a landing fee at our public use privately owned airport.

Neither do we.

3G7

Best little spot o'land in NY
 
Jebert said:
Neither do we.

3G7

Best little spot o'land in NY
Nor did we when we were privately owned, or now, when we're publicly owned. There's a SMALL overnight charge, though. I think it's $3.00, though I'm not sure.
 
N2212R said:
We don't charge a landing fee at our public use privately owned airport.
The money to maintain it has to come from somewhere. Do you sell fuel? Have maintenance? Hangars for rent? None of these are available at AVX, nor would it be profitable to offer them.
 
I always put in my correct N number. I want the charge for tax purposes. Besides, it's not good to lie.
 
jkaduk said:
The money to maintain it has to come from somewhere. Do you sell fuel? Have maintenance? Hangars for rent? None of these are available at AVX, nor would it be profitable to offer them.

No. No. and No. We pay out of our pocket to keep it open. We're not in it to make a profit, we're doing it to perform a public service for the community - local and aviation.
 
Another reason to enter your N-number: last year a pilot in the west received a violation notice for busting the DC ADIZ. Fortunately he had been flying that day and had the fuel receipts to prove he hadn't been east of the Rockies.

Regards,
Joe
 
N2212R said:
No. No. and No. We pay out of our pocket to keep it open. We're not in it to make a profit, we're doing it to perform a public service for the community - local and aviation.
I should have looked at the info on your airport before posting. I would say that maintaining a 3000' paved runway, on top of a mountain, on an island is a little bit different than what is required for your airport.
The pot holes in the runway were recently all filled in. Prior to that I think it was neck and neck - the number of people complaining about the potholes was the same as those complaining about the $20 landing fee. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, it is different. We have to roll it mow it, trim it, etc...

Paved airport...lets see...RoundUp the weeds every so often.

So yeah, we probably pay more in maintenance than they do.
 
N2212R said:
Yeah, it is different. We have to roll it mow it, trim it, etc...

Paved airport...lets see...RoundUp the weeds every so often.

So yeah, we probably pay more in maintenance than they do.
The last paving job they did a few months ago cost $275,000. I believe it had been about 10 years since it had been done. Unfortunately there is no one on Catalina Island or in Southern California for that matter willing to give the airport $275,000 every ten years to keep the airport open. If you guys are are giving $30,000 out of your own pocket a year to maintain your airport my hat is off to you.
 
In this first year - we are WELL past $30,000. You can send the hat to...
 
N2212R said:
In this first year - we are WELL past $30,000. You can send the hat to...
I've got an AYA hat I don't wear anymore. I'll drop it by the next time I'm in MI. The last time I was in MI was 1977, so I suppose I'm due.
 
Richard said:
I always put in my correct N number. I want the charge for tax purposes. Besides, it's not good to lie.
I wouldn't call it lieing. I'd call it:

Holy **** it's 5 degrees out.. The wind is blowing like 30 mph and I can't feel anything anymore. I am struggling to get my wallet out. I'm wondering if my ears are still on my head..and I struggle to swipe my card...and this damn thing wants to ask me ALL these questions !?! Enter, Enter, Next, Next, Enter, Enter... Now I'm struggling to pull the hose and slipping and sliding down the ramp falling on my ass. Eventually I climb up onto the wing and can't quit shaking as I fill it up...Now I have to put this stupid hose away!

Fueling planes in the winter sucks.


But it's all worth it when you takeoff in a 172 in about two hundred feet climbing out at like 1,200 FPM.
 
N2212R said:
No. No. and No. We pay out of our pocket to keep it open. We're not in it to make a profit, we're doing it to perform a public service for the community - local and aviation.

VERY admirable Ed.
 
I alwasy type in my N number and will gladly pay "reasonable" parking/ramp fees.
 
jangell said:
I wouldn't call it lieing. I'd call it:

Holy **** it's 5 degrees out.. The wind is blowing like 30 mph and I can't feel anything anymore. I am struggling to get my wallet out. I'm wondering if my ears are still on my head.
Wait a tick...I thought 5 degrees was T-shirt weather. At least that's what y'all been saying....

BTW: last week I was off in about 200' and climbing like a home sick angel. 33022G28 21C
 
Back
Top