Op Spec 052

Even for landing?

I understand for beginning the approach, continuing, and so forth.

However, upon arrival at the DH or DA, if the PIC determines flight visibility is higher than reported RVR can a landing be made?

Thanks in advance!
 
152SIC said:
Even for landing?

I understand for beginning the approach, continuing, and so forth.

However, upon arrival at the DH or DA, if the PIC determines flight visibility is higher than reported RVR can a landing be made?

Thanks in advance!
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You cannot pass the FAF unless you have the RVR to continue. However, once inside the FAF and established if the RVR drops you can continue the approach and land if you have the approach environment and subsequently the runway environment.
 
RVR/reported visibility dictates whether or not you can start the approach. Once you're inside the FAF, vis reports don't matter anymore (until you're ready to takeoff - C056, if memory serves).

Were you legal to start the approach? Can you now see the runway? At or above mins? Will you always be in a position to make a landing using normal maneuvers? If yes to all: land the plane. Who cares how far the tower can see.
 
RotorAndWing said:
You cannot pass the FAF unless you have the RVR to continue. However, once inside the FAF and established if the RVR drops you can continue the approach and land if you have the approach environment and subsequently the runway environment.
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:yeahthat:
 
Found the answer here: http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=8AA798FD4885F5C886257A8400600E10

4-280 CONTROLLING MINIMUM CONCEPT. The concept of a controlling minimum is based on reported weather conditions at the destination airport. The controlling minimum concept includes considerations for the reported weather conditions, the capabilities of the flightcrew, and the capabilities of the airborne and ground- or space-based equipment. This concept prohibits a pilot from continuing past the FAF, or beginning the FAS of an IAP unless the reported visibility (RVR, if applicable) is equal to or greater than the authorized visibility (RVR) minimum for that IAP. The basic objective of the controlling minimum concept is to provide reasonable assurance that once the aircraft begins the FAS, the pilot will be able to safely complete the landing. The controlling minimum concept, however, permits a pilot to continue a CAT I approach to DA/DH if the visibility/RVR was reported to be at or above the controlling minimum when the pilot began the FAS even though a later visibility/RVR report indicates a below-minimum condition. RVR reports, when available for a particular runway, are the reports (controlling reports) that must be used to determine whether an approach to, and landing on, that runway are authorized or prohibited.

This question related to the op spec in particular. Digging through the 8900.1 can be mind-numbing sometimes.

Thanks for the other input!
 
152SIC said:
http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=8AA798FD4885F5C886257A8400600E10

I found the answer here under 4-280, RVR controlling concept.

Thanks for all the input!
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Nonetheless you have to have the required flight visibility to continue below DA whether the RVR is at, above, or below the minimum specified value. RVR is essentially ground visibility although it is more correctly ground "seeing conditions" because it "counts" HIRLs combined with background contrast.
 
aterpster said:
Nonetheless you have to have the required flight visibility to continue below DA whether the RVR is at, above, or below the minimum specified value. RVR is essentially ground visibility although it is more correctly ground "seeing conditions" because it "counts" HIRLs combined with background contrast.
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Absolutely correct. However, the op spec itself can itself cause confusion. It figures that the definition of RVR as controlling is not co-located in the 8900.1.
 
152SIC said:
Absolutely correct. However, the op spec itself can itself cause confusion. It figures that the definition of RVR as controlling is not co-located in the 8900.1.
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The fact that the FAA places the RVR values on a given Form 8260-3 or -5 makes them controlling as the legal replacement for ground visibility for straight-in as a matter of Part 97, Part 121 or not.

Flight visibility, OTOH, is a matter of regulation set forth by 91.175 (and equivalent Part 121 language) as opposed to Part 97, per se.

A pilot is well-served if he understands the technical definition of RVR, but that in no way affects its use.
 
aterpster said:
The fact that the FAA places the RVR values on a given Form 8260-3 or -5 makes them controlling as the legal replacement for ground visibility for straight-in as a matter of Part 97, Part 121 or not.

Flight visibility, OTOH, is a matter of regulation set forth by 91.175 (and equivalent Part 121 language) as opposed to Part 97, per se.

A pilot is well-served if he understands the technical definition of RVR, but that in no way affects its use.
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Good points!

I was just having a tough time with the verbiage found in Volume 3 (and the respective op spec, C052) which states:

F. Runway Visual Range (RVR). Touchdown zone (TDZ) RVR is controlling for all operations authorized in paragraph C052. All other RVR reports are advisory. A mid-field RVR report may substitute for an inoperative TDZ RVR report, except for Special Authorization (SA) CATI operations as described in subparagraph J.



It is confusing because the op spec in question is labeled:

OPSPEC/MSPEC/LOA C052, STRAIGHT-IN NON-PRECISION, APV, AND CATEGORY I PRECISION APPROACH AND LANDING MINIMA—ALL AIRPORTS.

The verbiage: "RVR is controlling for ALL operations authorized in paragraph C052" is confusing.


Anyways, it sure had me confused!
 
152SIC said:
Good points!

I was just having a tough time with the verbiage found in Volume 3 (and the respective op spec, C052) which states:

F. Runway Visual Range (RVR). Touchdown zone (TDZ) RVR is controlling for all operations authorized in paragraph C052. All other RVR reports are advisory. A mid-field RVR report may substitute for an inoperative TDZ RVR report, except for Special Authorization (SA) CATI operations as described in subparagraph J.



It is confusing because the op spec in question is labeled:

OPSPEC/MSPEC/LOA C052, STRAIGHT-IN NON-PRECISION, APV, AND CATEGORY I PRECISION APPROACH AND LANDING MINIMA—ALL AIRPORTS.

The verbiage: "RVR is controlling for ALL operations authorized in paragraph C052" is confusing.


Anyways, it sure had me confused!
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No conflict. The center field RVR report controls where permitted when the touchdown zone RVR is inop.
 
aterpster said:
No conflict. The center field RVR report controls where permitted when the touchdown zone RVR is inop.
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I was confused in regards to whether or not an approach, conducted under op spec C052, would be allowed to continue past the FAF and land if the reported RVR dropped below minimums and the observed flight visibility was found to be above minimums.

My confusion only existed for operations conducted under this op spec. I understand the controlling RVR transmissometer can be substituted. That verbiage is clearly spelled out in the op spec itself.
 
152SIC said:
I was confused in regards to whether or not an approach, conducted under op spec C052, would be allowed to continue past the FAF and land if the reported RVR dropped below minimums and the observed flight visibility was found to be above minimums.
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In short, if the RVR is below mins you can't continue the approach beyond the FAF. Once inside the FAF as long as you have the runway environment in sight, are in a normal position to land, and have the required flight visibility you can land. Even if the RVR goes below mins (once already inside the FAF).

See posts 4 & 5.
 
Ok, this has been the first time I think I found what I'm looking for after searching for DAYS! Ive asked many people this question and I got a different answer from each one.

152SIC, I think is saying: The RVR "controlling" specification is the lowest minimum that allows the aircraft to go past the FAF for the FAS. Is this correct?

Example: If the statement for an airline reads; Mid RVR, if available is controlling, and TDZ is 1200, Mid is 600, Rollout is 300.

Does this mean, Mid must be at least 600 to go past the FAF?

Also, I'm looking at a CAT II into TPA, that has 3 numbers for RVR and written this way:

12/6/3. Does this mean, TDZ must be 1200, Mid 600, and Rollout 300 to go past the FAF?

I'm quite surprised I got so many different answers.

Thanks
 
Hngrplanner said:
Ok, this has been the first time I think I found what I'm looking for after searching for DAYS! Ive asked many people this question and I got a different answer from each one.

152SIC, I think is saying: The RVR "controlling" specification is the lowest minimum that allows the aircraft to go past the FAF for the FAS. Is this correct?

Example: If the statement for an airline reads; Mid RVR, if available is controlling, and TDZ is 1200, Mid is 600, Rollout is 300.

Does this mean, Mid must be at least 600 to go past the FAF?

Also, I'm looking at a CAT II into TPA, that has 3 numbers for RVR and written this way:

12/6/3. Does this mean, TDZ must be 1200, Mid 600, and Rollout 300 to go past the FAF?

I'm quite surprised I got so many different answers.

Thanks
Click to expand...

This concept prohibits a pilot from continuing past the FAF, or beginning the FAS of an IAP unless the reported visibility (RVR, if applicable) is equal to or greater than the authorized visibility (RVR) minimum for that IAP.......... RVR reports, when available for a particular runway, are the reports (controlling reports) that must be used to determine whether an approach to, and landing on, that runway are authorized or prohibited.


Example one, yes. You do need 600 RVR prior to the FAF.

The CAT II into TPA, 600 is still controlling provided the airline operation manual is the same as in example one. Also, you need to be approved for CAT II operations and abide by the additional criteria for CAT II operations set forth in the operations manual.
 
RotorAndWing said:
You cannot pass the FAF unless you have the RVR to continue. However, once inside the FAF and established if the RVR drops you can continue the approach and land if you have the approach environment and subsequently the runway environment.
Click to expand...

Yup
 
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