Flying_Nun
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Which would you choose?
Rental Options
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John221us
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Where you trying to do a poll? I don't see any choices.
timwinters
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What's the mission?
MAKG1
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It REALLY depends upon the mission. If high altitude is a possibility, the 172M and 152 become rather limiting. But a 172M is adequate for local low-altitude sightseeing with two adult passengers. The flap switch may **** you off, though.
If IMC is a possibility, the DA20 is out. IMO, glass panels are a distraction, but if that's your mission, all the Cessnas don't work (unless they have been retrofit).
If IMC is a possibility, the DA20 is out. IMO, glass panels are a distraction, but if that's your mission, all the Cessnas don't work (unless they have been retrofit).
flyingmoose
Pattern Altitude
What do you want to do? Just burn gas?
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
I love these polls that limit choices to the ridiculous.
Flying_Nun
Line Up and Wait
Mission = training, then time building
For what purpose? Primary training either in the cheapest plane you can fly or the plane you intend to keep flying after training, or a combination of the two. I did my cross countries in a 172RG, an ArrowII, and a 182 which had me my HP and complex endorsements as well as rental check outs for those planes so once I had my ticket I could rent any of the SE planes in their fleet. Since the X/Cs are distance based, it cost only a small premium to use them over the 150/152 172s and PA-28 160 & 180 that I did most of the rest of my primary training in.
MachFly
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If you can afford it go for the DA40, anyways you look at it is a superior aircraft (unless you want to do bush flying) compared to your other options. If you don't need the extra speed and the two rear seats go for the DA20.
If you are doing IFR training, I'd personally take something with the round gauges (so DA40 would be out).
If you are doing IFR training, I'd personally take something with the round gauges (so DA40 would be out).
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MachFly
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Plenty of round gauge DA-40s out there....
Very few and very hard to find.
If that one has round gauges then great...if not, oh well.
If they aren't around anymore and don't have G-500 or 600s in them, that would not bode well for the longevity of the type as all the early ones would be out of circulation. 2 of the 3 DA-40s I've flown have been steam.
MachFly
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Just out of curiosity, did the 2 40s with steam gauges belong to the same guy/club/school?
I've never even seen a 40 with steam gauges, not even talking about flown.
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fgcason
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152 is dirt simple to fly.
152 is the slowest of the batch. If you want to build time, slower is better to the same far distant destinations.
Nope, one was in Long Beach and the other was in Ft Lauderdale. There were several years of them before the G-1000 came out IIRC.
Not if you're training on a budget though, you want the fast plane for your longer trips as you get them done quicker leaving more time for local maneuvers in the 40hrs. Typically at most places the speed of the 172 on your long X/Cs over a 152 ends up saving you money for the same trip. Building time in a 152 is kinda iffy when you try to insure a performance plane later, too many 152 and fixed gear hours and you pay a major penalty stepping up.
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Dave Krall CFII
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152 gives most miles and hours per dollar, 172M nearly the same, but with the addition of the most versatility of the group.
MachFly
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For some reason I thought that Diamond only produced the steam version for a half a year or so.
Just found this in an old news article: "We are excited about launching the G1000 system in the DA40 Diamond Star," said Gary Kelley, Garmin’s director of marketing. "Diamond has proven to be an excellent partner to work with on this advanced avionics package." An estimated price premium of $25,000 over a conventional IFR equipped DA40 is expected for the G1000 system. First deliveries are expected end of first quarter 2004.
I don't remember when they started selling the 40s but it was defiantly before 2002 (or in 2002
). So looks like your right.Mtns2Skies
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+1 The more complex/high performance/tail wheel time you can get the better off you'll be later and the more valuable experience you'll have. However none of the options presented were complex/high performance/tail wheel so I'm going to agree with Henning, 172 is best.
They didn't become standard issue until 2008 did they? I remember the one in Ft Lauderdale was a 2006. Pilots are cheap, flight schools/FBOs are cheaper, the G-1000 was a pricey option IIRC.For some reason I thought that Diamond only produced the steam version for a half a year or so.
Just found this in an old news article: "We are excited about launching the G1000 system in the DA40 Diamond Star," said Gary Kelley, Garmin’s director of marketing. "Diamond has proven to be an excellent partner to work with on this advanced avionics package." An estimated price premium of $25,000 over a conventional IFR equipped DA40 is expected for the G1000 system. First deliveries are expected end of first quarter 2004.
I don't remember when they started selling the 40s but it was defiantly before 2002 (or in 2002
Yeah, I got lucky and got a lot of really good advice when I started and flew out of a flight school that had a variety of planes including complex and HP. Ralphie who used to be found on Purple has 750+ in all DA 20, PA-28, and a bit in a DA-40, the insurance quotes he was hit with for a retract were astronomical, higher rate than I paid at 60hrs TT on my Travelair.
MAKG1
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For primary training without TOO much distance involved, I would (and did) choose a 172M or 172N.
Transition to a 172R (or 152) is trivial. Transition to a Diamond is likely to be a little more expensive because of insurance rules. The glass panels (if equipped) will be a bigger deal than the actual flying.
Transition to a 172R (or 152) is trivial. Transition to a Diamond is likely to be a little more expensive because of insurance rules. The glass panels (if equipped) will be a bigger deal than the actual flying.
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MachFly
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Okay let's compare them. And I'm not being biased (at least trying to not be).
Visibility:
The bauble canopy gives you a much higher situational awareness. The wing does not block your visibility when turning. And the wing is located after of the pilot seat giving you the ability to look down, not just up.
Speed:
DA40 will go up to 135kts, 145kts if the wheel pants are on.
I'm not sure at what speed 172M & P cruises but I belive it's less than 115kts, correct me if I'm wrong.
Controls:
In my opinions the 40's controls are a lot lighter and more agile. The stick also takes less room the in the cockpit, however because the stick is fat it might cause problems with certain knee boards (not a problem on the DA20) which would otherwise work well in a 172. Also you can't mount the plates to the stick like you would do with a yoke.
Prop:
Constant speed vs fixed pitch...
Unpaved & Rough strips:
DA40 is certified to land on unpaved airports and can do that very well, but if your going to be flying into unpaved airports a lot a high wind aircraft might be more suited for the job.
Cabin Space:
DA40 is much more roomy (both front and back seats), if any wants I can look up the specific numbers.
Safety:
First I'll point out that there has never been an in-flight fire or a post crash fire on any Diamond aircraft.
The 40 has two wing spars, as oppose to just one.
Another one of my favorite things about the way Diamond builds their aircraft is the seats are a part of the "main frame", this significantly improves the safety in a crash because the seats will never detach and squash the pilot.
Some interesting statistics:
In addition take a look at this NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20090310X81527&key=1
The guy flew 3 patters with a large chunk of the wing gone and it handled fine! The 40 has almost the same wing as the 20.
So overall I think even thought the DA40 is more expensive, it is worth the money. If you have no need for the extra speed and the two rear seats then go for the DA20.
Visibility:
The bauble canopy gives you a much higher situational awareness. The wing does not block your visibility when turning. And the wing is located after of the pilot seat giving you the ability to look down, not just up.
Speed:
DA40 will go up to 135kts, 145kts if the wheel pants are on.
I'm not sure at what speed 172M & P cruises but I belive it's less than 115kts, correct me if I'm wrong.
Controls:
In my opinions the 40's controls are a lot lighter and more agile. The stick also takes less room the in the cockpit, however because the stick is fat it might cause problems with certain knee boards (not a problem on the DA20) which would otherwise work well in a 172. Also you can't mount the plates to the stick like you would do with a yoke.
Prop:
Constant speed vs fixed pitch...
Unpaved & Rough strips:
DA40 is certified to land on unpaved airports and can do that very well, but if your going to be flying into unpaved airports a lot a high wind aircraft might be more suited for the job.
Cabin Space:
DA40 is much more roomy (both front and back seats), if any wants I can look up the specific numbers.
Safety:
First I'll point out that there has never been an in-flight fire or a post crash fire on any Diamond aircraft.
The 40 has two wing spars, as oppose to just one.
Another one of my favorite things about the way Diamond builds their aircraft is the seats are a part of the "main frame", this significantly improves the safety in a crash because the seats will never detach and squash the pilot.
Some interesting statistics:
In addition take a look at this NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20090310X81527&key=1
The guy flew 3 patters with a large chunk of the wing gone and it handled fine! The 40 has almost the same wing as the 20.
So overall I think even thought the DA40 is more expensive, it is worth the money. If you have no need for the extra speed and the two rear seats then go for the DA20.
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MachFly
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I don't remember and I was unable to find anything that says when they because standard.
Airplanes are airplanes, fly em all and have fun.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Why would anyone not pay $3/hr to fly a 172 over a 152? The low cost 172 would be my pick, then the DA20
Condition would be my reason, ie a good 152 vs a crap 172. Bigger isn't better if it's a POS, besides I fit in a 152 just fine.
Dave Krall CFII
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Those are dry/hour quotes, so it's more than $3 with fuel differential and aircraft choice depends on mission goals.
MachFly
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I bet everyone who rents planes from there thinks that so the 172 is always flying and the 152 is always available. Aircraft availability could make a difference in what you will be renting.