Birds vs. Airplanes

AuntPeggy

AuntPeggy

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
8,479
Location
Oklahoma
Display Name
Display name:
Namaste
The FAA and the USAF collect such data, but I don't know where to access it. The Air Force program used to be called Bird-Aircraft Strike Hazard -- BASH. Good name, huh?
 
i don't know but i always get a kick when i see a headline about how a flock of birds ran into an airliner, instead of the other way around
 
A couple of years ago a friend had a seagull strike in his C-182. Result: new horizontal stabilizer.

We have mucho problems with Canada geese at our field.

IMG_2410.JPG


A visiting C-152 was doing a touch-and-go a couple of years ago when he encountered geese on the 'go'. One goose hit the left wing, another went right through the windshield and all the way back into the tailcone. The airplane landed safely, but it needed three feet of new wing leading edge, a new windshield, and an industrial-strength interior detailing job. :eek: :vomit:

I had to go around from about 150' AGL, due to geese, during my BFR last December.

Ron Levy said:
The FAA and the USAF collect such data, but I don't know where to access it. The Air Force program used to be called Bird-Aircraft Strike Hazard -- BASH. Good name, huh?
Click to expand...
Try here: http://wildlife.pr.erau.edu/public/index.html
 
Last edited:
I do know this....seems that airlines and birds are mixing it up waaaay too much in NY, but all of the birdstrikes I have read about were on departure.

Just a few days before the Jet Blue incident was the DAL 757 that took some out on departure....not to mention Cactus 1549.....
 
Friend took a robin (or something of similar size) on the right side of his Lanceair. Said it was like a bug splat on steroids. He said had it hit the left side he would have had a really difficult time landing.
 
One of our 172s ran over a goose from behind on short final. Student pilot recalled pushing on the center of the yoke for the horn...

New leading edge and a sliced rib.

We also had our diamond hit by a bird strike while on the ground. Bloody shatered remains of the bird landed on top of the canopy....
 
Pilawt said:
A couple of years ago a friend had a seagull strike in his C-182. Result: new horizontal stabilizer.

We have mucho problems with Canada geese at our field.
Click to expand...
Gulls? Geese? Ptooey. You ain't seen nothin' until you land on a grass runway occupied by kangaroos. They just sit there and stare at you -- "G'day, mate -- I was here 40,000 years before you humans, so bugger off." Fortunately, the runway was wide enough to taxi around them.
 
Ron Levy said:
Gulls? Geese? Ptooey. You ain't seen nothin' until you land on a grass runway occupied by kangaroos. They just sit there and stare at you -- "G'day, mate -- I was here 40,000 years before you humans, so bugger off." Fortunately, the runway was wide enough to taxi around them.
Click to expand...
At Astoria, Oregon, about ten years ago (not long after the photo below was taken at the same place) a Lear 36 started its takeoff roll, at night ... until it hit an elk on the runway. The airplane was destroyed in the resulting fire, but its occupants got out ok. The elk, not so much.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20021205X05569&key=1

ast00083104.jpg
 
I remember this one in 2001. An American 767 smacked a flock of some kind of waterfowl (Cormorants, similar to a goose?). Did quite a number on the airplane. It's worth a look. One of the birds wound up in the cockpit, AFTER going through the radome, pressure vessel and instrument panel:


airbus8.jpg


More photos:

https://plus.google.com/photos/1134...3158129169?banner=pwa&authkey=COaxt7jXkqPv_QE


http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20010402-1




They were well north of 250kts when they hit them. Another good reason to keep the speed back when they give you freespeed below 10k out of a lot of European airports.*

*They were at 12,000ft when they hit, but the principle is the same. Hitting a bird at high speed sucks.
 
Last edited:
FAA's 5 pages of wildlife strike photos including cockpit penetrations, at least one of them a fatal crash.
 
So, I am thinking it is more a risk with fast aircraft and less so with say GA single engine on final. There would be more time for the birds to divert. Anyone have any statistics related to speed?


Pilawt:
Do you know how fast the C182 was going at the time of strike?

I also wonder about the risk trade-off thinking of those who fly low in bird country. Its one reason I tend to fly higher AGL. Less birds and bugs...
 
Watch out for giraffe too. :sad::sad::sad:
 

Attachments

  • cessnavsgiraffeck2.jpg
    cessnavsgiraffeck2.jpg
    54.2 KB · Views: 30
Last edited:
skidoo said:
Pilawt:
Do you know how fast the C182 was going at the time of strike?
Click to expand...
100 KIAS - slowly climbing about 4 miles after departure from KVUO below a Class C floor of 1800' MSL. Report here:
http://wildlife.pr.erau.edu/database/results_i.php?find_nr=254241

I also wonder about the risk trade-off thinking of those who fly low in bird country. Its one reason I tend to fly higher AGL. Less birds and bugs...
Click to expand...
Some of the biggest bugs I've hit have been around 10,000' AGL; and I've seen migrating geese above 10K' AGL, too.
 
Last edited:
Pilawt said:
Some of the biggest bugs I've hit have been around 10,000' AGL; and I've seen migrating geese above 10K' AGL, too.
Click to expand...
Wow. I have wondered how high birds can/do fly. Had no idea they went that high AGL. I suppose it makes sense, though -- it's cooler and smoother up there.
 
tonycondon said:
i don't know but i always get a kick when i see a headline about how a flock of birds ran into an airliner, instead of the other way around
Click to expand...

Well that may not be an incorrect way of describing some of those events - our house windows have taken multiple bird strikes. While our house has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, and an attached 2 car garage, I have yet to find any throttle or way to fly it. It is pretty stationary on its foundation when the birds try to fly through the standard size windows.

I have had to dispose of a couple birds who managed to break their necks that way. Have come within maybe fifty feet of birds in planes I was flying; fortunately nothing closer.
 
I had a bird strike on my RV-12 before paint. Hit the right wing right on a rib. No damage to the plane, but from the feather and blood I don't think the bird faired well. :no:

A buddy had 2 serious bird strikes in his RV 6. One goose fell into the river and a hunter picked it up. The pilot and the hunter knew each other. :lol:
 
Last edited:
Let'sgoflying! said:
FAA's 5 pages of wildlife strike photos including cockpit penetrations, at least one of them a fatal crash.
Click to expand...
In 1973, a US Navy T-39 on a low level training mission at 300 knots/500 feet took a turkey buzzard in the right upper quarter window -- hit the student NFO in the co-pilot seat in the head and fatally broke his neck. About 1984, a USAF F-4 on a run-in in the Bardenas Reales bombing range in Spain took a buzzard in the left lower forward window -- hit the pilot in the face, he lost control, and they hit the ground at 480 knots before the WSO could react for two instantly dead.

Serious stuff, especially as speed goes up.
 
skidoo said:
So, I am thinking it is more a risk with fast aircraft and less so with say GA single engine on final. There would be more time for the birds to divert. Anyone have any statistics related to speed?


Pilawt:
Do you know how fast the C182 was going at the time of strike?

I also wonder about the risk trade-off thinking of those who fly low in bird country. Its one reason I tend to fly higher AGL. Less birds and bugs...
Click to expand...

My only close calls with B1-RDs of any coniquence has been in cruise. Once had a buzzard dive to escape me at 5000msl. Problem was he was above me. He went between the propeller disk and the wing:hairraise:
 
I posted last year about the hapless one I hit at 3500 MSL on the way back from FWA. It hit about a foot above my head, right at the base of the OAT sensor. Sounded like a good sized rock, left what looked like gallons of blood on the roof streaming back onto the vertical stab, but no damage except a couple of scratches to the paint. (Of course, it was probably only a few ounces.) Never did determine what kind of bird it was.
 
+1. Do you think it's because the little ones can't climb that high, or because we just don't notice them as much?
Pilawt said:
Some of the biggest bugs I've hit have been around 10,000' AGL; and I've seen migrating geese above 10K' AGL, too.
Click to expand...
 
Many years ago flying a Baron over Long Island at 3000ft., I flew through a flock of geese. had no choice...it was about 10...PM. The door came open and the oil pressure on the right engine started dropping. Fortunately we were over Farmingdale Airport and on the ground in about 4 minutes.. Landed and taxied to what was then Beechcraft East. Shut down and just as we got out the prop was starting to go into feather. Walked around and counted evidence of eight strikes. Wing tip dented, wing root which was smashed flat cutting the oil pressure line to the gauge pumping out oil, side of fuselage had a dent that made the door come open, cracked step, propeller tip covered with blood and feathers, two distinct spots on the windshield(blood and feathers), and one on the spinner. Left the plane there and went back to Teterboro where the cars were parked. Went back the next day to survey in daylight the damage. Blood and feathers were allover the right side of the plane. Since Beech east was a major repair center just left it there for repairs. one month and over $30,000 later we had a perfectly good flying airplane.

Filed a complaint with the FGA(Federal Goose Administration) about a bunch of geese flying in formation at night without proper nav lights and to cover my ass. Never heard a word or anything back from them.

Noah W
 
Noah Werka said:
Since Beech east was a major repair center just left it there for repairs. one month and over $30,000 later we had a perfectly good flying airplane.
Click to expand...
That's quite a bill there... :eek: (no, not on the goose...)
Hopefully insurance paid for most (all?) of it?
 
The B-200 r/h leading edge with an almost perfectly-centered goose-body-shaped indentation is available at reasonable cost if anybody is interested.


Noah Werka said:
Many years ago flying a Baron over Long Island at 3000ft., I flew through a flock of geese. had no choice...it was about 10...PM. The door came open and the oil pressure on the right engine started dropping. Fortunately we were over Farmingdale Airport and on the ground in about 4 minutes.. Landed and taxied to what was then Beechcraft East. Shut down and just as we got out the prop was starting to go into feather. Walked around and counted evidence of eight strikes. Wing tip dented, wing root which was smashed flat cutting the oil pressure line to the gauge pumping out oil, side of fuselage had a dent that made the door come open, cracked step, propeller tip covered with blood and feathers, two distinct spots on the windshield(blood and feathers), and one on the spinner. Left the plane there and went back to Teterboro where the cars were parked. Went back the next day to survey in daylight the damage. Blood and feathers were allover the right side of the plane. Since Beech east was a major repair center just left it there for repairs. one month and over $30,000 later we had a perfectly good flying airplane.

Filed a complaint with the FGA(Federal Goose Administration) about a bunch of geese flying in formation at night without proper nav lights and to cover my ass. Never heard a word or anything back from them.

Noah W
Click to expand...
 
DaleB said:
Wow. I have wondered how high birds can/do fly. Had no idea they went that high AGL. I suppose it makes sense, though -- it's cooler and smoother up there.
Click to expand...

Depending on the species, they can get up there and there is an actual case of an airplane hitting one of these at FL370, though fortunately not in this instance. The bird was eventually recovered safe and sound:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11011384

18 August 2010 Last updated at 06:55 ET

Missing vulture could pose threat in Scottish skies

Warnings have been issued to Scottish aircraft after a bird of prey, which can soar at up to 37,000 feet, went missing. The Rueppell's Griffon Vulture was flying in a display in Cumbernauld when it was caught in a gust of wind. Its handlers at the World of Wings centre could only watch as their star attraction soared high in to the sky.

It is feared the seven-year-old female, named Gandalf, could pose a threat to aircraft. David Ritchie, director of the centre, said: "These birds can soar higher than any other in the world, and have recorded heights of over 36,000 feet. "Gandalf is an absolute monster bird with a 10-and-a-half foot wingspan. She poses a genuine threat to airplanes."

The bird has been the star at the centre since 2006, when she was brought from Africa as part of a breeding programme. World of Wings specialises in promoting the plight of vultures, which are becoming increasingly endangered.
Rueppell's Griffon Vultures are native throughout the Sahel region of central Africa but the current population of 30,000 is in decline due to ongoing loss of habitat and other pressures.
Along with other birds, Gandalf is let loose to fly every day for members of the public, to show the birds "in their full glory". Airport alert Mr Ritchie also said: "She was taking part in her daily display and started to soar. She got caught in the wind and just went higher and higher until she disappeared. "We would warn people not to approach her but to call the police. She has no fear of humans and she could give someone a very severe bite. Her beak is designed to tear flesh apart."
Scottish airports, the police, the Scottish SPCA, Edinburgh Zoo and Blair Drummond safari park have all been informed. National Air Traffic Services confirmed that pilots taking off and landing at Scottish airports have been warned about the vulture. A spokeswoman for the Civil Aviation Authority said: "It can be quite serious. All the operators in the area have been notified." A spokesman at Cumbernauld Airport said: "With a wingspan of 10ft, it could do a lot of damage to a large aircraft. But it's also half the size of some of our small training aircraft and it could take one of them, or even a helicopter, right out."
 
Last edited:
azure said:
That's quite a bill there... :eek: (no, not on the goose...)
Hopefully insurance paid for most (all?) of it?
Click to expand...

It did(all). It was a Be58(1982 50th Anniversary model). I was working for Beech East TEB at the time and had a very good relationship with the people over there. I thought I knew quite a lot about the ins and outs of Barons and Bonanzas. A lot of 58 and 58P parts are not interchangable. An obscure fact arose during the repairs not even the FRG guys knew. Evidently, for some reason Beech used a mixture of regular Be58 and Be58P parts to build several 58s that year. Some of the parts damaged were 58P parts that could not be replaced with regular 58 parts. This was one of those Barons. That was quite a surprise for a lot of people at both TEB and FRG.

Noah W
 
At the end of the AWOS recording at KDVO you can hear the "remarks" section asking all pilots to fill out a "wildlife form" if they see / encounter and wildlife in / around the airport. I asked another pilot if that was for the benefit of the pilots. I believe the answer was "no" and that, in fact, filling out the forms gave the public a reason to shut down the airport. Don't know if that was true - he said they would then claim we were disturbing the wildlife or something.
 
N801BH said:
That would not surprise me one bit at all..... Especially in California...:mad2:
Click to expand...

I know. So, just in case he was right, I'm not fillin' out no stinkin' form. Besides, on EVERY untowered airport runway I've been to - at dusk or night time anyhow - there have been:

Jack rabbits
Mice / rats / rodents / voles
Birds of prey
Possums
Etc.
Often running across the runway.
 
skidoo said:
So, I am thinking it is more a risk with fast aircraft and less so with say GA single engine on final. There would be more time for the birds to divert. Anyone have any statistics related to speed?


Pilawt:
Do you know how fast the C182 was going at the time of strike?

I also wonder about the risk trade-off thinking of those who fly low in bird country. Its one reason I tend to fly higher AGL. Less birds and bugs...
Click to expand...

Kinetic energy varies as the square of the speed, so the faster you hit that goose, the more energy (in an exponetial fashion) your airplane has got to absorb.

An HH-65 I was flying in took a goose through the windshield shortly after takeoff from KWWD one day. We were at less than 80 knots I'd guess and the bird still ended up in the back with me. I'm not sure which was messier, the helo or our flightsuits.
 
I took a peregrine falcon in the leading edge of a 210 one afternoon over the grand canyon; the it crushed the wing and peeled it back to the spar. When doing ag work, we got hit a lot; we worked low and the birds down in the crop didn't appear to figure out we were coming until we were nearly on top of them. It wasn't uncommon to have a flock of birds rise out of the crop in front of us, and the sound of them hitting the fuselage sounded like popcorn. We called them "popcorn birds."

The birds would end up jammed in the automatic flagman, and some times wound up in the cockpit. They would pass over or once in a while through the prop arc, hit the blade cutter on the front of the wind screen, and either get cut in half, or ride the blade up to the airscoop on top of the cockpit. There, they'd explode and enter the cockpit through the ramp air vent, and usually get blown down the back of my shirt, or all over the inside of the cockpit.

I've had two solid bird strikes at night, both about 10,000' in the mountains, or mountainous terrain. One was in a 182 around one in the morning on a halloween, and it left the windscreen covered in blood with dings and dents in the airplane. I have no idea what it was I hit, but guessed it was probably an owl of some kind.

The other was in a Lear 35, also about one in the morning just outside Las Vegas, approach Red Rocks, and whatever it was got the windscreen and crushed the radome.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top