That is a well thought out plan to keep you safe....
Are you sure you are a girl ?
Ben.
First Passenger As A Private Pilot (Or Lack Thereof)
- Thread starter kimberlyanne546
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That is a well thought out plan to keep you safe....
Are you sure you are a girl ?
Ben.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Wow. How drunk did they get you, anyway?
Or did they blind you with their mirrored sunglasses and a huge pilot watch?
Unfortunately the answer to this question is something along the lines of:
What happens at 6Y9 stays at 6Y9. You'll just have to attend next year and find out for yourself - !!!
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
PS - Yes there was alcohol served but some of the biggest highlights were my (sober) pilot experiences. I got to fly planes! Which is, I guess, what a fly-in is all about.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
onwards
Pattern Altitude
Funny. I have yet to fly by myself since getting my PPL a few months back. And I fly at least once a week pretty much. No lack of people who want to go up with me, for some strange reason. And on the couple of occasions I wanted to fly when no one else did, well, there's always the kids...
Anyhoo, sorry to hear that. That sucks; you have this amazing new capability and no one to share it with!
Anyhoo, sorry to hear that. That sucks; you have this amazing new capability and no one to share it with!
denverpilot
Tied Down
Actually, as best as I can tell, that's a particularly PoA fly-in feature...
Most fly-ins are about a bunch of people getting up way to stupidly early, flying somewhere for pancakes, staring at each other's airplanes until the coffee kicks in, and then departing mid-day with no one having flown in anyone else's airplanes at all.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Funny thing is I now "might" have people to go with. I guess word spreads quickly among friends and family. As mentioned, though, I do take this responsibility seriously. The newest "prospect" is an old friend, and a skydiver with thousands of jumps, who has been around small planes a lot . . . so I think he understands the risks involved and is comfortable.
Kimberly
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Actually, as best as I can tell, that's a particularly PoA fly-in feature...
Most fly-ins are about a bunch of people getting up way to stupidly early, flying somewhere for pancakes, staring at each other's airplanes until the coffee kicks in, and then departing mid-day with no one having flown in anyone else's airplanes at all.
Really? That's too bad . . . cuz a pilot at the fly-in told me AOPA may have some CA fly-ins (at least I think it was AOPA). Another board to join - I guess?
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Is he going to be wearing his parachute?
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Is he going to be wearing his parachute?
Actually, just realized I know TWO experienced skydivers, although one is out of the country for a long time. Don't know if they will bring a chute but the one who may come is / was a base jumper too.
I am PIC and will not be LETTING him jump out - however, him simply bringing a parachute? Not sure. Good question.
skylanerg
Pre-takeoff checklist
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harpo
Hiya Kimberly,
This is one of my groups. It is quite active and the members are the friendliest you'll find. It's all about meeting great like-minded people with lots of flight sharing opportunities (PIC or pax). Good stuff. http://www.meetup.com/NEPilotsGroup/
Play around this site for other locations. Look at members and see what other groups they belong to, etc. http://aviation.meetup.com/cities/us/ca/san_francisco/
This is one of my groups. It is quite active and the members are the friendliest you'll find. It's all about meeting great like-minded people with lots of flight sharing opportunities (PIC or pax). Good stuff. http://www.meetup.com/NEPilotsGroup/
Play around this site for other locations. Look at members and see what other groups they belong to, etc. http://aviation.meetup.com/cities/us/ca/san_francisco/
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Sounds like this is a common thing.
I may have found my first passenger for Saturday - but - since so many others thus far have let me down I'll just have to wait and see.
Photos and videos of the flight will be a bonus - something the passenger can do and help me to preserve this memory forever! Heck I don't even have a shot of me and the 152 since my instructor and I were so busy with lessons.
denverpilot
Tied Down
So, here's one to think about...
Make sure you give your passenger a safety briefing...
Anyone know if there's a good thread hiding in the archives here... "What do you tell passengers for their safety briefing?"
Might be a good one worth starting...
Make sure you give your passenger a safety briefing...
Anyone know if there's a good thread hiding in the archives here... "What do you tell passengers for their safety briefing?"
Might be a good one worth starting...
TMetzinger
Final Approach
I give them a little boarding card in e-mail if they're first-time. This one needs an update but if gives an idea.
silver-eagle
En-Route
There have been a number of threads on safety briefings. Some have included some rather good briefing cards too. Dauntless Software has a bunch of free things you can download. And you can search the web for other briefing cards. (I have their FASTFAR. As an electronic reference, I think it is pretty good. They are also quite responsive to problems.)
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
I did also ask the passenger if they understood the risks of flight (I know this person VERY well, over the past five or more years).
I realize some of you may say that was a bad idea.
However, I want to be realistic here. I am not the world's best pilot, nor am I the world's worst pilot.
I am not going to make anyone sign a waiver or anything.....
Though I do have AOPA's renters insurance, and some of my coverage that I paid for includes passengers and what may happen to them.
I realize some of you may say that was a bad idea.
However, I want to be realistic here. I am not the world's best pilot, nor am I the world's worst pilot.
I am not going to make anyone sign a waiver or anything.....
Though I do have AOPA's renters insurance, and some of my coverage that I paid for includes passengers and what may happen to them.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Found this old thread.
Since the day I passed my checkride, I have been PIC several times. Not ONCE without someone sitting next to me.
I almost dare say I miss being solo! But that is not true. Many of my "passengers" have been pilots which makes me feel safer. Two pilots must be better than one.
Since the day I passed my checkride, I have been PIC several times. Not ONCE without someone sitting next to me.
I almost dare say I miss being solo! But that is not true. Many of my "passengers" have been pilots which makes me feel safer. Two pilots must be better than one.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Yikes.
Pa28-140
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Gordon Shumway
Kimberly, if you want to fly some really grateful passengers, consider checking out Pilots n Paws. I do those flights often and I haven't had one dog offer his opinion about how things should be done or complain about the landing. Usually, you can count on wet/sloppy kisses. The dogs seem to know you are trying to help them. Best way I know of to meet great people with big hearts. No minimum PIC time required.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Thanks but unfortunately I can't afford this. Most of my flights are so short (less than an hour each way) that the dogs could have been driven in a car for the same distance.
I may look into this to be a "helper" (co pilot) though.
Kimberly
Jim Logajan
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.
Maybe this has already been mentioned, but in case it hasn't, you could ask around to see if anyone in your area is working toward an instrument rating and needs a safety pilot when practicing simulated instrument conditions in VMC. Then offer to act as one for free. As a private pilot, you would be able to offer to do this in most training airplanes.
Gets you in the air; and some of it may even be logged:
http://www.askacfi.com/184/logging-safety-pilot-time.htm
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
Be careful with this, though. I think Cap'n Ron previously mentioned some of the risks of doing this as a non-CFI, including the ability to recover from a vertigo-induced or poor flight-by-reference-to-instruments-induced unusual attitude instigated by the pilot flying under the hood, among other things.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
I have not used the words "safety pilot" but I am slowly starting to "hang out" at airports and talk to pilots to see if I can fly with anyone. It will take me a while to get into the pilot community, but it is happening.... slowly. More and more - at air shows and airports - I am starting to recognize people. Aviation is truly a small world.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
I haven't done as much instrument instructing as Ron has - but I've done enough to have an opinion. There really isn't a snow balls chance in hell that Kimberly would let a pilot get into an unusual attitude that couldn't be recovered from on a clear and a million day. That's just crazy.
The real risk would be doing the above in actual instrument conditions or MVFR.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
My thoughts are in agreement with Jesse's statement
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
Jay puts his point in a flippant way, but nonetheless it is important. I think I might've mentioned it here, but again, when I flew with my first passenger, who was a PP and an IR student at our FBO, he was so alarmed by my steep approach that he grabbed and pulled the yoke when I was about to flare (1). I think it is even more important to stress their role as passengers and non-interfering with controls when carrying pilot-rated passengers in front.Ever heard of 2 Chefs in the kitchen?
Note 1: It was not necesserily dangerous. After all he was a rated pilot, with time in the specific aircraft and more total time that I had at the time. Still, we settled on the runway in an awkward nose-high attitude with a thump. It was the Cherokee seen in my avatar, oleos ate it
-- Pete
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Was his correction necessary?Jay puts his point in a flippant way, but nonetheless it is important. I think I might've mentioned it here, but again, when I flew with my first passenger, who was a PP and an IR student at our FBO, he was so alarmed by my steep approach that he grabbed and pulled the yoke when I was about to flare (1). I think it is even more important to stress their role as passengers and non-interfering with controls when carrying pilot-rated passengers in front.
Note 1: It was not necesserily dangerous. After all he was a rated pilot, with time in the specific aircraft and more total time that I had at the time. Still, we settled on the runway in an awkward nose-high attitude with a thump. It was the Cherokee seen in my avatar, oleos ate it
-- Pete
I simply wouldn't fly with someone if they told me that I was absolutely not permitted to touch the flight controls. That said, I have a little more experience than some pilots in determining what really needs to be corrected and what doesn't. It takes a hell of a **** up for me to come on the controls.
Sometimes the best way to "save" will result in a nose high thump onto the runway. But that nose high thumb is lacking in energy and controlled and it's much better then a hard thump nose first or prop first.
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
In my opinion, it was not necessary. I did pass the checkride like that. However, when I transitioned to Arrow, I started making much flatter approaches than I did back then.
We discussed it cordially on the ground and he said that he was sure that I was not going to flare in time. It was a refueling stop at COS when we flew together to FTG, I few up leg, he flew down leg. At FTG, I did a similar approach and I'm pretty sure he tensed up, but refrained from action. The landing was fine. On the way back, I watched how he flies, and he always dragged it in with power.
Also, Jesse, you're a CFI, and that's different. You probably saw it all in students before, had to deal with different flying habits in them. I suppose if you have to grab controls, that's a sign that an unsafe situation is actually developing.
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azure
Final Approach
Maybe Jesse, as a CFI, has the training to know when an approach is unsalvageable and it is necessary to take over but personally, I would not grab the controls when another pilot is flying unless it was necessary to prevent a mid-air, or something like that -- and in that situation I'd announce "my controls" in a way that the pilot would know that I meant business and was reacting to an emergency that he or she wasn't aware existed. Two pilots fighting over the controls is far more likely to result in bent metal than anything one or the other is likely to do. I rarely do anything (hopefully) that would alarm another pilot but if someone just grabbed the controls out of unreasonable fear, that would be the last time they ever flew with me as a front seat passenger.
I once had to restrain myself when someone who was giving me a ride in her own airplane (and was instrument rated at that, and presumably higher time than me) tried to plant the bird on the runway in a flat or even nose down attitude, bounced, and then kept trying to push forward to salvage the landing. Inevitably, this started to develop into a porpoise. One bounce, two bounces. Before the third bounce, which would probably have caused damage, I said "go around", and fortunately she did. If it weren't for the fact that the only way I could have helped after the first bounce would have been to add full power from the right seat (which I've never done before), I might have grabbed the controls. I could see the whole thing coming from the last few feet of the flare but I just don't have the skill to intervene safely in a situation like that. I doubt if many non-instructor pilots do.
I once had to restrain myself when someone who was giving me a ride in her own airplane (and was instrument rated at that, and presumably higher time than me) tried to plant the bird on the runway in a flat or even nose down attitude, bounced, and then kept trying to push forward to salvage the landing. Inevitably, this started to develop into a porpoise. One bounce, two bounces. Before the third bounce, which would probably have caused damage, I said "go around", and fortunately she did. If it weren't for the fact that the only way I could have helped after the first bounce would have been to add full power from the right seat (which I've never done before), I might have grabbed the controls. I could see the whole thing coming from the last few feet of the flare but I just don't have the skill to intervene safely in a situation like that. I doubt if many non-instructor pilots do.
AZFlyGirl
Filing Flight Plan
This is an interesting thread and I fully expect to run into the same situation when I get my PPL and start carrying passengers. A lot of people say they'll fly with me, but I would bet they back out. I am looking forward to flying with others, but I have a feeling that most people I'm going to fly with will be those who are more seriously interested in flying and are part of the community, though one lady I work with says she "loves heights" and flying and is excited to go so who knows.
Kimberly, wish we were closer, I'm in pretty much the same situation as you (generally speaking), would be nice to fly with some fellow female pilots. Don't seem to be too many around!
Good luck and happy flying!
Kimberly, wish we were closer, I'm in pretty much the same situation as you (generally speaking), would be nice to fly with some fellow female pilots. Don't seem to be too many around!
Good luck and happy flying!
Jaybird180
Final Approach
I confess to being unskilled at saving a porpoise. Fortunately, yet unfortunately I don't think I've ever seen one.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Often times that can be saved with nothing but pitch control - which is the easiest thing for the instructor to access. The pitch is the critical thing. Adding thrust can sure help but it takes time to do when another pilot has their hand on it.
Jim Logajan
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This is an interesting thread and I fully expect to run into the same situation when I get my PPL and start carrying passengers. A lot of people say they'll fly with me, but I would bet they back out. I am looking forward to flying with others, but I have a feeling that most people I'm going to fly with will be those who are more seriously interested in flying and are part of the community, though one lady I work with says she "loves heights" and flying and is excited to go so who knows.
Kimberly, wish we were closer, I'm in pretty much the same situation as you (generally speaking), would be nice to fly with some fellow female pilots. Don't seem to be too many around!
Good luck and happy flying!
I see this is your first post - welcome to PoA! Have fun in your training!
AZFlyGirl
Filing Flight Plan
Thanks Jim! I'm very excited. Been a "pilot" all my life, just now doing it for real. First session Saturday morning, then flying with a friend in-training Sunday. Can't get enough.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I also keep my hands off the controls as a passenger. I have seen a few squirrelly landings that weren't out of control, just sloppy, and I've used the Jedi mind trick once. (Saying, "Go around", as someone else mentioned. It usually works. We all hear our instructors in our heads. If a voice says to go around in our headset, we usually will. We'll probably also say, "You were right. That was a mess.")
Only once have I taken the controls of another pilot's craft and that was because he was heads-down screwing around with getting balky landing gear down on a poorly maintained Cessna 337. Then I was stupid enough to believe this idiot ATP-rated jerk that "he'd seen this before", climb back in the 337 in the *back* seat and had it happen all over again at the next destination. All with a non-rated pax in the right seat. There's more to that story too. But anyway...
I've also subjected some fellow pilots to a few crappy landings where they probably *wanted* to grab the controls.
I believe Murphy watched me make my worst landing of the year from about 30 feet away, standing next to the runway judging the spot landing contest. Godawful.
I mean seriously godawful. Swore to God I'd had a tailstrike in the 182 which is damned hard to do. Had to check the tail ring after we got out. (I hadn't hit it, but I've never had the nose that high in the air on a landing prior nor since, and don't plan on repeating it.)
Only once have I taken the controls of another pilot's craft and that was because he was heads-down screwing around with getting balky landing gear down on a poorly maintained Cessna 337. Then I was stupid enough to believe this idiot ATP-rated jerk that "he'd seen this before", climb back in the 337 in the *back* seat and had it happen all over again at the next destination. All with a non-rated pax in the right seat. There's more to that story too. But anyway...
I've also subjected some fellow pilots to a few crappy landings where they probably *wanted* to grab the controls.
I believe Murphy watched me make my worst landing of the year from about 30 feet away, standing next to the runway judging the spot landing contest. Godawful.
I mean seriously godawful. Swore to God I'd had a tailstrike in the 182 which is damned hard to do. Had to check the tail ring after we got out. (I hadn't hit it, but I've never had the nose that high in the air on a landing prior nor since, and don't plan on repeating it.)
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
This is an interesting thread and I fully expect to run into the same situation when I get my PPL and start carrying passengers. A lot of people say they'll fly with me, but I would bet they back out. I am looking forward to flying with others, but I have a feeling that most people I'm going to fly with will be those who are more seriously interested in flying and are part of the community, though one lady I work with says she "loves heights" and flying and is excited to go so who knows.
Kimberly, wish we were closer, I'm in pretty much the same situation as you (generally speaking), would be nice to fly with some fellow female pilots. Don't seem to be too many around!
Good luck and happy flying!
Yay girl pilots! I have only flown with one, Mari, and though I was PIC the whole time she was a jet pilot and an ATP. What an honor and perhaps my best flight ever. I even got to do a no flaps landing for real when my rental flap motor failed.
If you find yourself in California, send me a note. I always want to meet new pilots.
Meanee
Line Up and Wait
Girl pilots is a myth! Same as "Girls on Internet" They simply do not exist! :-D
I've yet to see a female GA pilot. There were few regional airline female pilots that I remember from my airline flights. But so far, the only indication that girls do fly is an occasional woman on CTAF (shared between few fields).
I've yet to see a female GA pilot. There were few regional airline female pilots that I remember from my airline flights. But so far, the only indication that girls do fly is an occasional woman on CTAF (shared between few fields).
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
I rarely see them at my airport. I can only think of one time I've seen a girl climb in the left seat without a CFI in the right seat and I've never seen one solo except in Ukiah - in a tail dragger! That was a pretty cool thing.
I do hear them on the CTAF sometimes but in terms of actually SEEING THEM - nope.