Foreflight

[alaskaflyer]

How big is FFPro? How can you find the size of any app?

The app is only 19 MB. Almost always, the size of the app is listed on the left hand side of the page for that particular app in the iTunes store .

In the case of Foreflight it isn't the app that is sizable, it is the data - databases, charts, plates, etc. I read somewhere that if you has every chart, plate and database available it would still be less than 5GB.

 

[Pilawt]

In the case of Foreflight it isn't the app that is sizable, it is the data - databases, charts, plates, etc. I read somewhere that if you has every chart, plate and database available it would still be less than 5GB.

Note however, if you download a new cycle of charts before the previous ones expire, the app will store both the old and new charts until the new ones become effective. Then it will delete the old ones. Thus for a few days the data stored will be about double what you expect.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The app is only 19 MB. Almost always, the size of the app is listed on the left hand side of the page for that particular app in the iTunes store .

Yup, most apps aren't very big. X-Plane is probably the biggest I have, iTunes says it's 279.1 MB.

Another way to get the size of an app - In iTunes (the program, not the store), select "Apps" in the upper left under "Library" and click on the app you're wondering about, then choose "Get Info" from the File menu.

In the case of Foreflight it isn't the app that is sizable, it is the data - databases, charts, plates, etc. I read somewhere that if you has every chart, plate and database available it would still be less than 5GB.

It's actually around 7 GB if you get EVERYTHING (VFR, IFR, all states, international). But Alaska alone is about a gig, so if you stick to the lower 48 it's less.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Thanks!
What about North up vs Track up?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks!
What about North up vs Track up?

Sectionals are printed north up. Dunno how it'd be possible to do them track up.

If you're one who rotates your paper charts, simply flip the iPad's orientation lock on and turn the device to your heart's content.

I have no idea if they plan on a track up "solution" but since it'd leave all the frequencies and other info on the charts at funny angles, I tend to think not. But I dunno.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

ya, I rotate my charts so's they go the same way I do. Also I am an exAWM user and am used to that. I bet they come out with it, there are lots of us trackuppers.

 

[alaskaflyer]

I think an elegant solution would be to have a track up orientation with a toggle button. That way you could easily toggle back and forth with one motion. North up to read the chart data, track up for navigation.

Are there other software or devices that do track up while overlaid on actual charts (as opposed to proprietary maps and datasets like Garmin?)

 

[midlifeflyer]

Sectionals are printed north up. Dunno how it'd be possible to do them track up.

The way other apps like the $20 Sky Charts Pro do it?

I have no idea if they plan on a track up "solution" but since it'd leave all the frequencies and other info on the charts at funny angles, I tend to think not. But I dunno.

There may be reasons for them not to but written info on the charts isn't likely one of them since people do it with paper, other apps do it, and most of the info you'd want is a touch away.

I was a confirmed track up with paper in earlier days, moved to north up on en route charts when I became instrument rated because there was so much information that I needed to read easily. Remained track up with GPS.

But neither your nor my personal preference should be the reason that a developer avoids a feature that a lot of folks want. Why should a whole bunch of people be forced to unclip their ipad from a kneeboard or rotate the whole thing on a mount because you and I like it in a different orientation?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I think an elegant solution would be to have a track up orientation with a toggle button. That way you could easily toggle back and forth with one motion. North up to read the chart data, track up for navigation.

Are there other software or devices that do track up while overlaid on actual charts (as opposed to proprietary maps and datasets like Garmin?)

Yes. Sky Charts Pro has a track-up option.
http://www.skycharts.net/

It toggles with a click of an on-screen button.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The way other apps like the $20 Sky Charts Pro do it?

I was joking, hence the - Their maps are derived from printed materials, and it's not possible to have things right-side-up on track-up with something that's not a digital representation. Well, you can do it for one track. In this case it's 000.

Again, I have no idea if they're planning on it or not. As of right now, no, there's no way to do track up.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

How many of you that are using the iPad with ForeFlight have stopped carrying paper sectionals or IFR charts? Do you have that confidence level with it yet?

I went and picked up paper charts for my short jaunt from DFW to Gaston's after spotting critical info (Razorback approach frequency, KHRO frequency) cut off at chart overlay positions between the Memphis and Kansas City sectionals near KXBA and KHRO, to the west of Gastons. I wish they'd give you a way to toggle back and forth between edges of adjacent charts; that'd alleviate these overlap issues. I know I can go look at it on the Airport frequency pages... what if it obscured a tower or mountain top altitude I needed to see? I wouldn't even know it was obscured from view.

And what does the piece of shaded magenta under the "contact razorback approach" box go to? Can't tell from this view:

 

[jesse]

How many of you that are using the iPad with ForeFlight have stopped carrying paper sectionals or IFR charts? Do you have that confidence level with it yet?

I don't usually carry paper charts anymore. If it's real hard actual I may print a few things. Between a garmin 430, ipad w/ foreflight, iPhone, and handheld GPS I have quite a bit of data already.

I have witnessed an iPad2 running Foreflight lock up while on an approach in actual. I've also had foreflight crash a few times on my iPad as well. So one needs to realize it may not be there if they need it.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

And what does the piece of shaded magenta under the "contact razorback approach" box go to?

For what it's worth, the incomplete shaded magenta area under the partially visible "CTC RAZORBACK APPROACH" box is for a new Class E airspace designation over 4M1 to the north.

I've emailed Foreflight support to find out why it's not depicted; see the scan from my new June 2nd sectional and compare it to what I see on the screen in FF. As you can see from the "VFR Charts" section / dates below, I have the June 2nd Kansas sectional data loaded.

This drives home the "be aware of all available information" need of preflight!

 

[Bravo3]

How many of you that are using the iPad with ForeFlight have stopped carrying paper sectionals or IFR charts? Do you have that confidence level with it yet?

I don't plan to ever fly without my paper charts for backup. I don't trust any manmade device to not "Murphy" on me.

FWIW, I had my first major iPad 2 glitch this past Saturday. Did a sync with my HP Pavillion desktop, unplugged, VOILA! . . . all my movies, TV shows (e.g. Flying Wild Alaska), podcasts, three entire music albums, and about four eBooks . . . GONE! See ya! No mas.

Sync your iPad at your own risk. It's epidemic, the data losses. Loads of posts on the subject out there on the internets. The tubes must be glowing. For the Appletologists out there, it must create some cognitive dissonance but it's happening--it's real.

So, no, the confidence level is not there. No way.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

How many of you that are using the iPad with ForeFlight have stopped carrying paper sectionals or IFR charts? Do you have that confidence level with it yet?

Yep. If it's good enough for the FAA to approve for part 135 operators, it's good enough for me. In the event the iPad itself tanks, I have my iPhone as a backup.

I went and picked up paper charts for my short jaunt from DFW to Gaston's after spotting critical info (Razorback approach frequency, KHRO frequency) cut off at chart overlay positions between the Memphis and Kansas City sectionals near KXBA and KHRO, to the west of Gastons. I wish they'd give you a way to toggle back and forth between edges of adjacent charts; that'd alleviate these overlap issues. I know I can go look at it on the Airport frequency pages... what if it obscured a tower or mountain top altitude I needed to see? I wouldn't even know it was obscured from view.

There's a new-ish system in place for chart borders right now that fixes quite a few issues that existed before. It's not perfect yet, though, so when you see things missing be sure to let them know. As part of the testing process on that I went through about 3,000 nm of chart borders. I'm sure it'll continue to improve as these issues are reported - But you've gotta report them directly to ForeFlight.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

You've gotta report them directly to ForeFlight.

Did that this afternoon!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

FWIW, I had my first major iPad 2 glitch this past Saturday. Did a sync with my HP Pavillion desktop, unplugged, VOILA! . . . all my movies, TV shows (e.g. Flying Wild Alaska), podcasts, three entire music albums, and about four eBooks . . . GONE! See ya! No mas.

Sync your iPad at your own risk. It's epidemic, the data losses. Loads of posts on the subject out there on the internets. The tubes must be glowing. For the Appletologists out there, it must create some cognitive dissonance but it's happening--it's real.

Hmmm. Sounds like it's iTunes content going away.

I Googled a bit, and found a couple of easy things to try:

1) Reboot the iPad - Hold down the power button on top of the device for ~10 seconds until you get a "slide to power off" slider. Slide it, wait for the device to finish powering down (screen will go completely black). Then, push the power button for a second or two to turn it back on (you'll see an Apple logo right away when it comes on.) Does it work now?

2) Plug the iPad in, open up iTunes, click on it in Devices, and click the expansion triangle so that you can see content on it. Play a song, then click "sync" and you're done. (This is somewhat unlikely as it was reported as an issue with upgrading to iOS 4.2, which I think you probably already had when you bought yours.) Does it work yet?

3) Double-check, with the iPad plugged into the computer, that you've got it set to synchronize "All Episodes" for example on the TV shows and not the default "all unplayed episodes." If it's set to "all unplayed episodes" then once you watch a TV show on the iPad, it'll be removed upon your next sync to make space for you to download more.

Got it going yet? If not, think about taking a trip to the Genius Bar...

 

[denverpilot]

Whether or not they get a "newish" system for chart borders, they really need to add a way to override it and pick the "layer" you want to look at. Sometimes the *pilot* really can do a better job than the tools do...

Anyone using WingX have any insights into how they're handling this?

The borders around almost all of the Terminal Area Charts cut stuff off that you probably want to see. Have looked at about three or four TAC chart edge areas (DEN, SAN, and I forget which others) and they all have these problems.

They got the scale issues right, it's just that the charts overlap and stuff is "hiding" underneath the TAC chart on the edges of the Sectionals. Victor airway designations, towers, all sorts of useful/tasty stuff that needs to be visible somehow.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Whether or not they get a "newish" system for chart borders, they really need to add a way to override it and pick the "layer" you want to look at. Sometimes the *pilot* really can do a better job than the tools do...

+20. Here's what I suggested in my email to them today:

I'd LOVE to see you guys provide a dashed line at the area where charts overlap, and by tapping that line I could toggle back and forth to see the edges of any charts that overlap at that point. That'd resolve the chopped data issue.

 

[EppyGA]

I have this issue being hangared at LZU. Yesterday I took some folks up for a flight and had set up a user way point on my 296 for their house. I also entered it in ForeFlight. ForeFlight put it quite a distance from where it really was and was unusable. I plan on getting a screen shot of both at some point and sending it to them. It happened to be near where they splice in the TAC to the Sectional.

 

[jesse]

My iPad2 slipped off my lap during a flight with the Bad Elf attached. It fell onto the floor of the aircraft bad elf first. Turns out it broke my dock connector on my iPad, the last pin is trashed. The iPad will still sync but the Bad Elf will not work with it.

(Bad Elf still works on my iPhone)

So...if you're going to use a Bad Elf - I'd highly suggest you get a dock extender cable so it will hopefully not bust your iPad if it slips off your lap. Hopefully I'll be able to get Apple to fix it.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Interesting Jesse. That was one of the concerns that led to my GNS 5870 purchase.

 

[jason]

Interesting Jesse. That was one of the concerns that led to my GNS 5870 purchase.

FWIW, foreflight has stopped recommending the 5870 and started recommending another Bluetooth unit. What I found interesting is that they specifically mentioned removing the 5870 from their buyers guide.

I know that some people were having problems with the power "switch" on the 5870.

 

[Bravo3]

Got it going yet?

Yes and no. Done the reboot thing. No joy. Apple's tech support says I need to off load all my media to the desktop and do a start-as-new on the iPad. The gal even came right out and admitted the new OS is buggy. She gave a nervous chuckle when I said that my iPad was "acting very PC-ish".

Apple has made it easy to restore my lost content and even my TV shows and movies as they "magically" appeared in my iTunes download queue. I'm burning up a lot of bandwidth, though, and my satellite Internet has spanked me twice now.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

For what it's worth, the incomplete shaded magenta area under the partially visible "CTC RAZORBACK APPROACH" box is for a new Class E airspace designation over 4M1 to the north.

I've emailed Foreflight support to find out why it's not depicted; see the scan from my new June 2nd sectional and compare it to what I see on the screen in FF. As you can see from the "VFR Charts" section / dates below, I have the June 2nd Kansas sectional data loaded.

Quick reply and resolution from ForeFlight:

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We've corrected the issue and posted updated downloads for the Kansas sectional. These are available for download now inside the app. We have corrected the issue that caused this, and adding additional levels of quality assurance to prevent anything like this from happening in the future.

To get the updates, go into the Downloads section, wait a few seconds, and it will prompt you to download the files. If you don't see them, go into Settings and set "Reload Download List" to ON, then restart the app. We normally cache the download list for 4 hours, but this will force an immediate refresh of the list.

 

[Bravo3]

Thank you also for the feature request. *I will put your vote down in our features request database for the addition of the Grand Canyon airspace chart and we will keep it in mind as we plan for the future, but cannot guarantee that it will make it in the product.

I always get this response from ForeFlight when I request that the special Grand Canyon airspace map be included in the Arizona sectional. Kinda reminds of the Japanese way of avoiding saying "no" by using "will seriously consider".

ForeFlight still rocks, though!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I always get this response from ForeFlight when I request that the special Grand Canyon airspace map be included in the Arizona sectional. Kinda reminds of the Japanese way of avoiding saying "no" by using "will seriously consider".

ForeFlight still rocks, though!

I'm sure it'll be there sometime... I've asked for it too. It shouldn't be too hard, it's basically a TAC and they already have those.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Quick reply and resolution from ForeFlight:

Wow, that was fast!

They must have found some other stuff too, I have 11 states today showing "Update".

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Wow, that was fast!

They must have found some other stuff too, I have 11 states today showing "Update".

Yup!

It did drop ENTIRELY the "CTC RAZORBACK APPROACH WITHIN 20 NM" box, with the frequencies, which is odd. It fully appears on the South edge of the paper KC sectional, but not at all on the North edge of the paper Memphis sectional.

It'd be nice if they can do their splice such that the TRSA notice is visible... Before, at least a snippet of it appeared, so you knew something was missing. Now, you don't know at all if you don't compare it to paper.

 

[Bravo3]

Wow, that was fast!

They must have found some other stuff too, I have 11 states today showing "Update".

Nothing for the SW. I guess our charts are perfect.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Nothing for the SW. I guess our charts are perfect.

Naah, they just figured you don't actually need charts, you just look for the dark spots in the sand.

 

[Bravo3]

Naah, they just figured you don't actually need charts, you just look for the dark spots in the sand.

Too complicated. It's steer for Mt. Humphreys in the north and Mt. Lemmon in the south and don't let your engine quit when flying over those big hole thingies :wink2:

 

[sferguson524]

i use it on my iPad with the built in GPS.. works GREAT. My CFII is going to try to steal it im sure.

 

[Mike5250]

Interesting Jesse. That was one of the concerns that led to my GNS 5870 purchase.

Has the 5870 been reliable? I was thinking about picking one up. I read it "locks" onto gps and makes it a better primary gps. Right now I use sky charts pro for the vfr chart and airport diagrams with no issues.

Mike

 

[midlifeflyer]

Has the 5870 been reliable? I was thinking about picking one up. I read it "locks" onto gps and makes it a better primary gps. Right now I use sky charts pro for the vfr chart and airport diagrams with no issues.

Mike

Very reliable. Once grabbing a signal I haven't lost one yet. That includes a flight from Atlanta to Denver in seat 15F where there was some initial difficulty getting the signal through the aluminum and another fllight when it slid off the glareshield onto the floor during turbulence (I've since started using a rubberized mat for extra stability)

 

[GeorgeC]

To DUATS or not to DUATS...

In the DUATS account configuration page, ForeFlight claims, "...you can leave these [DUATS] fields blank and ForeFlight will file your plans directly. A valid DUATS account is not required."

Are there practical differences between filing through DUATS or just letting ForeFlight file directly (whatever that means) ? Is it a matter of being able to receive an official wx briefing?

I already have a DUATS account, so using the default account won't save me the trouble of registration.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Bill's post in the DME Arc thread about the Provo, UT ILS to runway 13 sent me to FF to look up the plate. A search on the Airports tab for Provo just takes me back to the maps page, centered on the PROVO intersection north of Texarkana. The Airports search box says I can enter a city name, yet it doesn't seem to provide a disambiguation list to select from. If you know the airport code, obviously you can enter that, but beware looking up five-letter city names that also happen to be intersection names. Another example... Enter "Aspen" for your Airport search and it will take you to Maps north of Boston Logan, not Colorado, due to an intersection named ASPEN on the high-IFR chart.

I've reported this to FF support.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Bill's post in the DME Arc thread about the Provo, UT ILS to runway 13 sent me to FF to look up the plate. A search on the Airports tab for Provo just takes me back to the maps page, centered on the PROVO intersection north of Texarkana. The Airports search box says I can enter a city name, yet it doesn't seem to provide a disambiguation list to select from. If you know the airport code, obviously you can enter that, but beware looking up five-letter city names that also happen to be intersection names. Another example... Enter "Aspen" for your Airport search and it will take you to Maps north of Boston Logan, not Colorado, due to an intersection named ASPEN on the high-IFR chart.

I've reported this to FF support.

Reply from Foreflight came quickly.... Even on a Saturday.

Thanks much for pointing this out- and you're 100% correct. Though this is a "feature" we're aware of, sometimes hearing this from a customer helps provide a bit more priority to getting it resolved. Although we do not pre-announce new features, we have a strong track record of continuous updates and improvements to the application's functionality. As pilots, there are features often requested that we too would like to benefit from and we value the input from fellow aviators.

We will keep your request in mind as we plan for the future but cannot guarantee that it will make it into the final product.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

FWIW, foreflight has stopped recommending the 5870 and started recommending another Bluetooth unit. What I found interesting is that they specifically mentioned removing the 5870 from their buyers guide.

I know that some people were having problems with the power "switch" on the 5870.

Check this one out. Wireless, has a non-slip rubber mounting pad that would let it sit up on the dash. Recharges via USB, will work with iPad or other devices (switchable). Good reviews so far. The only thing I can't tell is if it's WAAS or not.

The product's website (http://xgps150.dualav.com), under the FAQ page, does mention a bug they've found when operating over 10,000 meters (32,800) feet, but they're beta testing a fix with some 777 pilots and others. The very fact that they acknowledge their issues and the status of fixes is an encouraging point in their favor, to me.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Check this one out. Wireless, has a non-slip rubber mounting pad that would let it sit up on the dash. Recharges via USB, will work with iPad or other devices (switchable). Good reviews so far. The only thing I can't tell is if it's WAAS or not.

The product's website (http://xgps150.dualav.com), under the FAQ page, does mention a bug they've found when operating over 10,000 meters (32,800) feet, but they're beta testing a fix with some 777 pilots and others. The very fact that they acknowledge their issues and the status of fixes is an encouraging point in their favor, to me.

It is WAAS compatible:

http://xgps150.dualav.com/how-it-works.html (see Technical Specs)