Cory Lidle lawsuit settled for $2 mm

Let me put this into layman's terms (as a layman myself).

There are two motions to cut a trial short: A motion to dismiss (made by the defendant) and a motion for summary judgement (made by the plaintiff).

In a motion to dismiss, the judge is required to take all the plaintiff's statements as being true. If given that, there is insufficient evidence to support the complaint, then the case is dismissed.

In the motion for summary judgement, the opposite is true...all the defendant's claims are deemed true, and if they still don't have a defense, the case is decided against them and they lose.

Now, when both of these fail, it goes to a full trial with a jury (or judge acting a trier of fact) where the relative merits and credibility of the evidence is finally weighed with no such presumptions.

That's a good explanation.

The only additions/clarifications I'd make are that the defendant can also move for summary judgment, and that on summary judgment, it's the non-moving party's evidence that's assumed to be true (instead of the claims themselves).

But, that's all technical mumbo-jumbo, which you were expressly trying to avoid. :)
 
That's a good explanation.

The only additions/clarifications I'd make are that the defendant can also move for summary judgment, and that on summary judgment, it's the non-moving party's evidence that's assumed to be true (instead of the claims themselves).

But, that's all technical mumbo-jumbo, which you were expressly trying to avoid. :)

"Your Honour, I have here a sworn affidavit that my client says that there defendant did done make her pregnant"

Claim->Evidence in one easy step.
 
I think Malanie Lidle is sued by the owners of the damaged condos and this was her way of possibly improving her pocketbook situation.
 
"Your Honour, I have here a sworn affidavit that my client says that there defendant did done make her pregnant"

Claim->Evidence in one easy step.

Yup.

And that's how easy it is to milk our current system.

Unfortunately, what else can you do? In a system where you're guaranteed a jury trial, and there's evidence that supports your claim (which includes an affidavit, which in fact is what Rule 56 expressly requires), how can you not be violating the right to a jury trial if you let the judge make the decision on weight and credibility, rather than the question of "is there evidence or isn't there?"

Sucks, but unless we make some drastic changes - which I'd like to see at the motion to dismiss stage (require complaints to be accompanied by actual evidence, accompanied by a "shall prosecute using all available means" law for perjury) - we're stuck with it.
 
I was also wondering what evidence the P's lawyer had.

If all that existed was your quote, this case should not have made it to trial. Considering that Cirrus probably had pretty good lawyers, I'm inclined to think that there must have been - at least in the judge's eyes - some kind of evidence supporting the Plaintiff's claim.

Keep in mind that this litigation was probably "expert-driven." As in, hired guns. Regardless, if there's evidence supporting a party's position, a judge is not allowed to assess its credibility - if there's evidence supporting a party's position, the case must go to trial, and the jury (or judge in a bench trial) must assess the credibility of the evidence and decide what happened.

Put differently, if Plaintiff had actual evidence that could be pointed to saying "mechanical failure," then the case had to go trial (absent a settlement or voluntary dismissal).

But, if all that Plaintiff had was conjecture, then the case shouldn't have made it to trial.

Hope that makes sense. It's kind of a difficult concept to explain, unless you see it in action.

Actually , it is crystal clear how the legal system works..... Lawyers create BS, other lawyers counter that with more BS. Clients on both side pay for the fight. Lawyers win.. They start more BS, then ask a judge for his/her opinion...... and what was that judge before he/she was a judge ???? A friggin lawyer.:yes::yes::yes::yes::confused::hairraise:
can you say perpetuation??????
 
Yup.

And that's how easy it is to milk our current system.


Sucks, but unless we make some drastic changes - which I'd like to see at the motion to dismiss stage (require complaints to be accompanied by actual evidence, accompanied by a "shall prosecute using all available means" law for perjury) - we're stuck with it.

I was wondering how many people that sign affadavits that are later proven false in the trial are ever prosecuted for perjury. You would think some kind of counter suit by the other side would be justified at the very least.
 
I'm wondering how many of the jurors will have any knowledge of aviation - uh ZERO.

The outcome seems to depend on how good of a salesman the lawyer is. I've served on two juries, a liability trial and a child custody trial. Let me just say, I NEVER want a jury deciding my fate.
 
Devils advocate:

There is an AD on Cirruses (Cirri?) for control lock up...
 
I think Malanie Lidle is sued by the owners of the damaged condos and this was her way of possibly improving her pocketbook situation.

Makes sense... I would figure that the plane liability policy carried at least some of that burden. I didn't read all the articcles, but did the $2MM end up being paid or not?
 
I would thank

There is a AD on Cirrus aircraft for control lock up...
There we go!

Now I'm not saying that Cirrus Design was in anyway responsible for this but perhaps it has something to do with lawyers thinking they had a leg to stand on.
 
Lawyers are paid to advocate on behalf of their clients. That's why they're called "advocates."

Their client has a beef, well, even if it's marginal a lawyer is expected to advocate.
 
Hopefully the pilot wasn't attempting full control deflection during his 180.


??? Sure as hell might have saved his life if he pulled it to the stops... If you're gonna put yourself into a high performance corner, well... you're gonna have to perform....
 
I heard on the radio today that the plaintiff's lawyer said he was going to appeal on the grounds that the judge disallowed testimony from a Cirrus pilot who had experienced control lock up.
 
So it's really all about money, not about justice or right and wrong or doing the right thing. Just straight up legalized robbery from the innocent even when they're not even involved and pay out to the despicable ones no matter what. Understood. Thanks for the clarification.


Yep. You got it. Greedy plaintiffs = higher costs for us. Its that simple.

Don't blame the lawyers, they are just representing the plaintiffs in these cases. Yes, lawyers can stir the pot and plant ideas of $$$ settlements, but in the end it is the plaintiffs' decision to proceed with these frivolous lawsuits.

Legalized robbery is a perfectly accurate phrase for this action.
 
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Yep. You got it. Greedy plaintiffs = higher costs for us. Its that simple.

Don't blame the lawyers, they are just representing the plaintiffs in these cases. Yes, lawyers can stir the pot and plant ideas of $$$ settlements, but in the end it is the plaintiffs' decision to proceed with these frivolous lawsuits.

Legalized robbery is a perfectly accurate phrase for this action.

A very good friend and law professor said to me once, "The practice of law has very little to do with justice and everything to do with the practice of law". Unfortunately, I've seen nothing to disprove that theory.
 
A very good friend and law professor said to me once, "The practice of law has very little to do with justice and everything to do with the practice of law". Unfortunately, I've seen nothing to disprove that theory.

Correct because the purpose of our legal system is not justice, it is to follow and interpret the laws whether they be just or unjust.
 
I think Malanie Lidle is sued by the owners of the damaged condos and this was her way of possibly improving her pocketbook situation.

If that's the case, someone didn't have their Estate and Trusts built properly. Or are you saying "she" meaning "his Estate"?
 
Correct because the purpose of our legal system is not justice, it is to follow and interpret the laws whether they be just or unjust.

I certainly understand why you say that.

But, consider this. A validly passed and/or created law is a law. Period. It might be unjust, as many laws have been. It may be just, as many laws are.

Nevertheless, just or unjust, a law is a law. It is what The People want, and so long as it's not unconstitutional, a law it remains.

If the purpose of our legal system were to selectively follow the laws it decided just, and selectively ignore the laws it decided were unjust, wouldn't we in essence be disenfranchising ourselves in favor of a dictatorship of judges? That is, it wouldn't be our elected representatives that were making our laws, but rather our judiciary deciding which laws were to be followed and which laws were not to be followed, on the whims of the judiciary.

This is why I'm a pretty strict advocate of following the law to the letter. It's not a judge's place to question the law, except when there is an issue of its constitutionality. Instead, it's the legislature's and executive's role to tell me what the law is, and then it's the judge's job to apply it as they have written it (same with the Constitution, but keep in mind that it's written using very ambiguous terms, which is purposeful).

Put differently, a judge can't necessarily do what he or she thinks is right. A judge must do what the law, as ultimately created by The People through their elected representatives or as expressed in the Constitution, tells him or her is right. A good judge is one who understands that, and is able to apply the law as written (again, unless it is unconstitutional for one reason or another).

And, in those instances were we feel like the judiciary has gotten something wrong or we simply don't like a result, the solution is easy. Judges are not God on Earth, so to speak - checks and balances apply to the judiciary, too. In other words, it's within the power of the legislature to simply pass a new law overriding a court's interpretation (you'll see statutes saying that a particular case's interpretation is wrong and is not what the legislature had in mind); it is also possible to amend the Constitution if it's interpreted in a way that We the People deem inappropriate.

Anyway, like I said, I understand why you wrote what you did. I know it can often appear that way, and even now I sometimes have a similar reaction. But, what I wrote is something to keep in mind, I guess.
 
If that's the case, someone didn't have their Estate and Trusts built properly. Or are you saying "she" meaning "his Estate"?

I'm wondering that, too. From the article, it certainly seemed like she was suing in her own right, but I'm also not going to expect your average newspaper article to differentiate between suing in your own name, and suing as, say, The Personal Representative of the Estate of Cory Lidle.

I guess it would be easy for me to find out, as this was in Federal court. But I'm lazy these days. ;)
 
Hopefully the pilot wasn't attempting full cross-controlled control deflection during his 180.


There was a single service difficulty report where the controls locked up while on the ground when with the stick one way and full rudder the other. During the subsequent AD, another 8 planes were detected that had the some bracket in the interconnect installed incorrectly and could have been subject to the same type of lockup.
 
I guess it would be easy for me to find out, as this was in Federal court. But I'm lazy these days. ;)

Me too.

If the bad pilot who'd hit a building didn't have any money or insurance, this wouldn't even have gotten this far.

Maybe Cirrus should sell airplanes to broke people! ;) :D
 
Me too.

If the bad pilot who'd hit a building didn't have any money or insurance, this wouldn't even have gotten this far.

Maybe Cirrus should sell airplanes to broke people! ;) :D

Mooney pretty much has that market covered....:D
 
Mooney pretty much has that market covered....:D

I thought Mooney's made their pilots broke :p

That being said, I had a ride in a 305 Rocket and it was awesome. If I didn't need a big useful load I'd be all over that.
 
Does anybody here really believe that a malfunction of the aircraft was the cause of the accident? They turned the airplane in the wrong direction and flew it into a building. Why should Cirrus (or their insurance company) pay anything to anybody?
 
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There's your first mistake. Only the public and the media talks about "fair trials". Lawyers know that there is no... such... thing. :)
 
Does anybody here really believe that a malfunction of the aircraft was the cause of the accident? They turned the airplane in the wrong direction and flew it into a building. Why should Cirrus (or their insurance company) pay anything to anybody?

Well, the plaintiff, her hired gun experts and her lawyers believe that it was the planes fault. They already announced that they are going to appeal. The racket is not going to let this big fish get away.
 
Well, the plaintiff, her hired gun experts and her lawyers believe that it was the planes fault. They already announced that they are going to appeal. The racket is not going to let this big fish get away.
I am not convinced that the plaintiff's lawyer or the experts actually believe that Cirrus is at fault, only that there is a reasonable possibility of extracting money from Cirrus by exploiting a flawed legal system.
 
Well, the plaintiff, her hired gun experts and her lawyers believe that it was the planes fault. They already announced that they are going to appeal. The racket is not going to let this big fish get away.

Success rates of appeals are beyond dismal.

My guess, the lawyers are carefully calculating how much they can extract from the widow by way of legal fees.
 
My guess, the lawyers are carefully calculating how much they can extract from the widow by way of legal fees.

Dont know whether they took this on contingency. If they did, its probably their finance company that will decide how long to flog this dead horse.
 
Dont know whether they took this on contingency. If they did, its probably their finance company that will decide how long to flog this dead horse.

This is entirely speculation, but this involves *both* the estates of the pilots and the widows thereof. With that in mind, there could easily be some kind of insurance subrogation issue driving this litigation.

That's speculation on my part, obviously, but I've learned that things aren't always as they appear.
 
Nevertheless, just or unjust, a law is a law. It is what The People want, and so long as it's not unconstitutional, a law it remains.

But it may NOT be "what the People want". Yes, yes it is a Repubic but do you really think we can all know all the viewpoints, all the thinking, all the backroom machinations ahead of time of an elected official.

So some elected rep says "he lets make a law" and the People said "that is good, make it so"? Not even close....and getting a law repealed is ridiculously hard for some damnable reason.

I know what you are trying to say, we have talked about this before, but it just seems we have elevated the "system" of justice, of law, to an almost religious level. We must follow the system, the law, no matter whether it is right or just, because the system is ALL that matters.

I, for one, am getting tired of that system.
 
Phftt. Two million will barely cover the legal expenses, unless of course the battle was fought on a contingency basis. Even if that's the case, "other expenses" and court costs will still gobble most of it up. Two million is not very much money in such situations.

John
 
Subrogation is a nasty bit of legal extortion...

I had a spinal disc rupture suddenly while loading cement blocks in Oct 2010... Dropped me to the ground with a paralyzed leg... Had an emergency surgery and months of PT and I am functional...
(but that is not the story)
I have Medicare and an HMO insurance policy... They paid all but a few hundred in co-pays... Life is good, right?
Wrong!
I now have the insurance subrogation monster attempting to eat me... They want me to, in writing, name the national chain store I was at when the disc let go so they can recover their money from them - they know who it is from the emergency room report but need me to 'attest' to have legal standing...

I am one of those a**holes who believes that right is right and wrong is wrong... That national chain store did nothing to injure me - no harm, no fault!
So, I won't sign the form... Now they are sending threatening letters that they are going to get the thirty grand back from me and/or cancel my health insurance (Medicare)...
My only response so far is to cancel them and sign up with another insurance company.. Mama always said I was fathered by a Missouri mule - father always said, "I heard that!"...

denny-o
 
Subrogation is a nasty bit of legal extortion...

I had a spinal disc rupture suddenly while loading cement blocks in Oct 2010... Dropped me to the ground with a paralyzed leg... Had an emergency surgery and months of PT and I am functional...
(but that is not the story)
I have Medicare and an HMO insurance policy... They paid all but a few hundred in co-pays... Life is good, right?
Wrong!
I now have the insurance subrogation monster attempting to eat me... They want me to, in writing, name the national chain store I was at when the disc let go so they can recover their money from them - they know who it is from the emergency room report but need me to 'attest' to have legal standing...

I am one of those a**holes who believes that right is right and wrong is wrong... That national chain store did nothing to injure me - no harm, no fault!
So, I won't sign the form... Now they are sending threatening letters that they are going to get the thirty grand back from me and/or cancel my health insurance (Medicare)...
My only response so far is to cancel them and sign up with another insurance company.. Mama always said I was fathered by a Missouri mule - father always said, "I heard that!"...

denny-o
Another option might be to give the name of the national chain to the a**holes and send a letter to the legal department of the chain informing them that you were required to inform the a**holes but do not consider them to be responsible in any way for your injury and will be willing to attest to that in a deposition. It would probably make it more difficult for them to extract money from the chain.
 
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Subrogation is a nasty bit of legal extortion...

I had a spinal disc rupture suddenly while loading cement blocks in Oct 2010... Dropped me to the ground with a paralyzed leg... Had an emergency surgery and months of PT and I am functional...
(but that is not the story)
I have Medicare and an HMO insurance policy... They paid all but a few hundred in co-pays... Life is good, right?
Wrong!
I now have the insurance subrogation monster attempting to eat me... They want me to, in writing, name the national chain store I was at when the disc let go so they can recover their money from them - they know who it is from the emergency room report but need me to 'attest' to have legal standing...

I am one of those a**holes who believes that right is right and wrong is wrong... That national chain store did nothing to injure me - no harm, no fault!
So, I won't sign the form... Now they are sending threatening letters that they are going to get the thirty grand back from me and/or cancel my health insurance (Medicare)...
My only response so far is to cancel them and sign up with another insurance company.. Mama always said I was fathered by a Missouri mule - father always said, "I heard that!"...

denny-o

You're probably breaching your contract.
 
But it may NOT be "what the People want". Yes, yes it is a Repubic but do you really think we can all know all the viewpoints, all the thinking, all the backroom machinations ahead of time of an elected official.

So some elected rep says "he lets make a law" and the People said "that is good, make it so"? Not even close....and getting a law repealed is ridiculously hard for some damnable reason.

I know what you are trying to say, we have talked about this before, but it just seems we have elevated the "system" of justice, of law, to an almost religious level. We must follow the system, the law, no matter whether it is right or just, because the system is ALL that matters.

I, for one, am getting tired of that system.

Then get rid of whoever is making laws on your behalf. If you can't, that means that the majority of voters are OK with him/her, and that's that.
 
I was also wondering what evidence the P's lawyer had.

If all that existed was your quote, this case should not have made it to trial. Considering that Cirrus probably had pretty good lawyers, I'm inclined to think that there must have been - at least in the judge's eyes - some kind of evidence supporting the Plaintiff's claim.

Keep in mind that this litigation was probably "expert-driven." As in, hired guns. Regardless, if there's evidence supporting a party's position, a judge is not allowed to assess its credibility - if there's evidence supporting a party's position, the case must go to trial, and the jury (or judge in a bench trial) must assess the credibility of the evidence and decide what happened.

Put differently, if Plaintiff had actual evidence that could be pointed to saying "mechanical failure," then the case had to go trial (absent a settlement or voluntary dismissal).

But, if all that Plaintiff had was conjecture, then the case shouldn't have made it to trial.

Hope that makes sense. It's kind of a difficult concept to explain, unless you see it in action.

But you and I both know the ONLY way to know what the evidence was is to read the transcript. In 22 years I have never seen an accurate and full report of a trial in the media.

Let me put this into layman's terms (as a layman myself).

There are two motions to cut a trial short: A motion to dismiss (made by the defendant) and a motion for summary judgement (made by the plaintiff).

In a motion to dismiss, the judge is required to take all the plaintiff's statements as being true. If given that, there is insufficient evidence to support the complaint, then the case is dismissed.

In the motion for summary judgement, the opposite is true...all the defendant's claims are deemed true, and if they still don't have a defense, the case is decided against them and they lose.

Now, when both of these fail, it goes to a full trial with a jury (or judge acting a trier of fact) where the relative merits and credibility of the evidence is finally weighed with no such presumptions.

mmmm sort of. There are a more than two types of motions to cut a trial short. Also a motion for summary judgment is available for both the plaintiff and defendant, not just the plaintiff.


Lawyers are paid to advocate on behalf of their clients. That's why they're called "advocates."

Their client has a beef, well, even if it's marginal a lawyer is expected to advocate.

Yep. You got it. Greedy plaintiffs = higher costs for us. Its that simple.

Don't blame the lawyers, they are just representing the plaintiffs in these cases. Yes, lawyers can stir the pot and plant ideas of $$$ settlements, but in the end it is the plaintiffs' decision to proceed with these frivolous lawsuits.

Legalized robbery is a perfectly accurate phrase for this action.

Yup.

There's your first mistake. Only the public and the media talks about "fair trials". Lawyers know that there is no... such... thing. :)

My neighbor growing up was an insurance company attorney. He had a great saying. " There is no such thing as justice, only results and some are better than others"
 
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