Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Doggtyred
En-Route
Accupuncture.. No personal experience with it. Some people swear by it. At least as effective as placebo. But the science is very weak on this one. The gateway theory of pain control is one embraced by western medicine, and there are neural stimulator that operate on that principle that are used in some pain management practices. So.. if.. an accupuncture needle is stimulating a nerve pathway that blocks a gateway to another region that suffers chronic pain, you MAY derive benefit. Claims it cures infertility, cancer, and MJ's vitiligo have yet to be proven
Chiropractic... it has its place, and manipulation of joints may be beneficial for some folks. I have a friend who attended Chiropractic college and is in practice in town here (There is a school here in the suburbs of Houston). I'm more of a fan of Doctors of Osteopathy than DC's.. and osteopaths perform manipulations but have full MD privileges as well. My friend is NOT one of those chiropractics who think Chiro can cure everything from cancer to acne.... but she CAN adjust your back..
Talk Therapy? I'm not wired that way. But others may be.
None of these methods involve the ingestion of substances for therapeutic benefit, unless you are referring to a talk therapist driving you to drink!
As for Homeopathy... refer to the previously posted XKCD cartoon. Its junk science and no more effective than placebo.
Mike Boehler
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I've never tried acupuncture, but I did have it done on my old dog. Had amazing results in his pain management and joint movement. Can't speak for adults
I've been going to a chiropractor for 20 years, can't imagine not going. They've helped with joint pain that docs simply wouldn't even want to discuss beyond surgery.
Talk Therapy? I'm not a big fan but what else is there for circumstances such as abused children? Actually, I'd really like to know the answer to this question, I'm dealing with a close family member who is 5 and the fact that I'm not a believer is hindering our plans for her.
Homeopathy: Only thing I know is I went to the drug store, bought Zicam and my cold was gone that night. Been using it since with about a 50% success rate as opposed to my doctors 0% rate. Don't know any other Homeopathic remedies really, but I know they are huge business.
I'm not endorsing anything here, and certain things are certainly more fun to poke fun at, but I've tried to keep an open mind.
Gary F
Final Approach
One of my partners is a D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy) and will occasionally perform a spinal manipulation for somebody with back pain. If you are having a heart attack he will forgo the manipulation and take you straight to the cath lab.
Zicam is a zinc preparation and it may be helpful for reducing the duration of cold symptoms but the data is inconsistent. I do not consider this to be a homeopathic remedy since it is not diluted to a very low concentration.
Mike Boehler
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I wonder how much he costs per visit and how many visits are allowed on my policy? And good luck finding one of those guys in my neck of the woods. One of the problems with rural living.
Gary F
Final Approach
My partner only performs manipulations on coworkers and does not charge. The advantage of being a D.O. is that they have basically the same training as a M.D. with the addition of chiropractic techniques.
Doggtyred
En-Route
Homeopathy is not the same as home remedy. Check out the wiki entry on Homeopathy... its really, really out there.
Mike Boehler
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Hey, I'm not some dude wearing beads and sandals promoting Homeopathic meds, I'm just saying Zicam works for me. Not into any of their other stuff, and wouldn't know a homeopathic cure from a chicken wing, but out of curiosity, I went on their site and this is what I found on the subject.
And FWIW there have been recalls and FDA stuff all over their site. There is definitely some degree of regulation, to what extent, I don't know, but its not as advertised in above posts that there is ZERO regulation. There appears to be some at least.
Zicam Cold Remedy intranasal products are homeopathic drugs. Both the ingredient, zinc gluconate, and its concentration in the Zicam Cold Remedy intranasal products are in compliance with the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States (HPUS).
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Doggtyred
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In June 2009, the FDA warned consumers not to use Zicam Cold Remedy nasal spray or gel swabs because of the possibility that they may cause people to lose their sense of smell. The manufacturer recalled the products after the warning was issued.
flyersfan31
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I believe that they are absolutely bogus.
We have, we humans, a conspiracy theory gene that seems to allow for things like Santa, the Easter Bunny, Crop Circles, and the like.
The placebo effect is well-documented. If it works for someone, well, good-o.
When the chips are down, I'm going with 4 yrs of med school plus internship and residency, and years of research and peer-review. If something the Aztecs did made it through that too, well, alrighty then - grind it up and give it to me.
The Incans did it, I believe it, that settles it. Not a basis for medicine, IMHO.
flyingcheesehead
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bbchien
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Still here by the grace of God. It's just AMAZING.Bruce, It is a FoUr LoKo in my handHow ya Been ?
Jeanie
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My husband was in a major car accident and our friend is an acupuncturist w/ years of training and treating folks in her clinic. She visited us daily for 2 weeks then every other day for 2 weeks then every third day... Got him to be able to move again and use his knee etc. It was a big benefit for him.
I think that like all doctors aren't equal in their bedside manner/treatment acumen so it is w/ acupuncturist types. Luckily our friend is one that knows her stuff and fixed Kevin.
I think it depends on the problem and the clinician as to the outcome ...
I think that like all doctors aren't equal in their bedside manner/treatment acumen so it is w/ acupuncturist types. Luckily our friend is one that knows her stuff and fixed Kevin.
I think it depends on the problem and the clinician as to the outcome ...
PresandCeo
Filing Flight Plan
Dang. Thank you for your reply. I was hoping that I'd be able to get back to it without too much effort after life cools off a bit and I stop taking Xanax. I can see why so many people would not report this kind of thing or would avoid seeking it out when they actually need it.
Where might someone find a listing of Board Certified psychiatrists to perform a 4-axis eval? Couldn't I instead start by having my prescribing MD author a letter describing treatment? Would an AME be able to work with that?
Lastly - should I pretty much consider my current third class medical invalid until I reapply? I'm not very clear on how self grounding works and what it implies for the future of my existing certificate.
Thanks everyone for the good thread. Too bad these kinds of situations pop up in life...
U
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Just looking for clarity on this subject as it relates to sport pilots. I take lorazepam for meetings and presentations after having panic attacks related to these specific situations starting probably 7 years ago. Life is great with the medicine and never had success with counseling. Flying is a stress relief, and I have no anxiety relating to flying an airplane. I really have no desire to stop taking the medicine, but was told that I can't get insurance without a special issuance (but I don't want the 3rd class medical hassles). My doctor okays me to fly as per the sport regulations. I can safely fly and per the FAA definition of self certification, I feel that I am legally meeting their requirement. I didn't say that I am going to take a bunch of pills and then joy ride in the sky. There is no clarity from the FAA on this - while the medicine may not be acceptable for private pilots, they won't define what a sport pilot must adhere to, medication or condition-wise. Until lawsuits clarify the FAA vagueness, I believe a good lawyer could support my stance legally on my fitness to fly. The argument that access to a medicine that could interfere with aviation duties completely neglects the availability and widespread use/abuse of alcohol. Anyone 21 years old has access to alcohol which is probably the most dangerous substance for aviation duties, but that doesn't ground a pilot when sober. My take on this is when not on an anxiety medication, provided no other conditions make me unfit to fly, then this should not be disqualifying. Show me any legal action, lawsuits, FAA actions, etc. that show otherwise interpreting the sport pilot driver's license standard and I will follow such rulings.
This topic really needs to be addressed by the FAA as there are numerous sport pilots with my same understanding of the regulations. Please chime in here and educate me if you have information (i.e. proof) that I am incorrect. Thank you in advance!
This topic really needs to be addressed by the FAA as there are numerous sport pilots with my same understanding of the regulations. Please chime in here and educate me if you have information (i.e. proof) that I am incorrect. Thank you in advance!
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Unreg (most recent): Since Dr. Bruce has announced a leave of absence from this board for a short period, I would suggest you seek him out directly to obtain an answer to your question. He can be found through his website, www.aeromedicaldoc.com
U
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Thank you I did in fact get a response. Not a very promising one though. Seems I'd need to be off medicine for 180 days, then get all types of tests done and on the day of examination, the doctor would have to say the condition no longer exists... how do you prove that a condition that only ever occurred in specific situations no longer exists? Hmmm... Sounds like a whole lot of work to get down to just the opinion of a few doctors, who could stop the whole process and end any future possibility I have now of being a sport pilot... That would take a whole lot of money, time, and pain to fight.
So I must say I am at odds now. Insurance policies appear useless for sport pilots that have a condition or medication that a 3rd class medical would deny. Meaning, if you have an accident, they could get your medical information in court and deny the claim. And no insurance means you can only fly a plane you own, no renting... and leaves you exposed to all types of liability (any blanket liability plans cover aviation liability???)
What alternatives exist? Fly an ultralight? Really bummed about this one as I've got 60 hours or so, maybe 40 hours solo...
So I must say I am at odds now. Insurance policies appear useless for sport pilots that have a condition or medication that a 3rd class medical would deny. Meaning, if you have an accident, they could get your medical information in court and deny the claim. And no insurance means you can only fly a plane you own, no renting... and leaves you exposed to all types of liability (any blanket liability plans cover aviation liability???)
What alternatives exist? Fly an ultralight? Really bummed about this one as I've got 60 hours or so, maybe 40 hours solo...
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Not true. I don't have a medical, but I do have insurance on my LSA homebuilt taildragger.
The FAA used to have some Q&A on this sort of thing on their website that suggested that if you doctor says OK, you are good to go. But that has been removed. I assume for ass covering reasons. I wouldn't expect the FAA to address this in any sort of positive manner.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Do you know of one single case where this happened? One. Just one. There are about a bizzllion examples (plus or minus 3) where people have wrecked aircraft while loaded up with booze and/or drugs. How many of those ended up in insurance denials? Please cite a specific example.
Do you have an example of a policy where this is stated? (Must meet the requirements for a 3rd class medical.) Mine says nothing like that.
Or is this just a variation of the old "Insurance will deny you if you are over gross" or "had an unapproved bulb in your landing light" or...
http://www.avemco.com/Articles/ART0006-2010.pdf
U
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I have no examples honestly. That is just what my insurance company told me when I put on the application the medication I was on. They responded something like: that medication is not approved by the FAA. Be aware that since this medication is not granted FAA approval, then you will not be covered should a claim be filed.
When I asked what I needed to provide, they said nothing but a special issuance would qualify. My agent checked around and found the same thing - even with a note from my doctor saying I was fit for sport pilot duties, no underwriter would insure me. Now I'm sure he didn't check every insurance company, but he has a pretty good list of them.
I checked another insurance policy and it states something like you agree to release all medical records from your physician(s) if there is a claim filed. I believe that is from the company you quoted. I am not familiar enough with the claim process to know if they do this in every case, but the wording definitely gives them the right. Check your policy carefully.
I would like to hear of a single case myself clarifying any of the stances the FAA takes, too bad there doesn't seem to be any information circulated!!!
When I asked what I needed to provide, they said nothing but a special issuance would qualify. My agent checked around and found the same thing - even with a note from my doctor saying I was fit for sport pilot duties, no underwriter would insure me. Now I'm sure he didn't check every insurance company, but he has a pretty good list of them.
I checked another insurance policy and it states something like you agree to release all medical records from your physician(s) if there is a claim filed. I believe that is from the company you quoted. I am not familiar enough with the claim process to know if they do this in every case, but the wording definitely gives them the right. Check your policy carefully.
I would like to hear of a single case myself clarifying any of the stances the FAA takes, too bad there doesn't seem to be any information circulated!!!
Really? I've never seen an application that even asked....... Something is not as it seems, you need a new agent.
U
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FYI I got approved by insurance on anxiety medicine as my doctor wrote a letter stating that the condition would not affect my ability to conduct safe sport pilot duties, and that I would not take the medicine before flying. She also stated the condition is unrelated to flying.
Take note here anyone flying under sport pilot rules!!! Follow the language the Federal Air Surgeon used and hopefully you'll be alright.
Take note here anyone flying under sport pilot rules!!! Follow the language the Federal Air Surgeon used and hopefully you'll be alright.
Untrue. If they sold you the policy and you did not lie on the application, there is no way for them to deny the claim without openning themselves to a "Bad Faith" lawsuit which opens up Punitive Damages which typically add two zeros to the claim figure, although it has gone higher. Insurance companies are pretty reluctant to expose themselves to this risk because they typically do not do well with juries.
Lots of untrue paranoia about what insurance companies can deny. The insurance companies like this because it keeps people from filing claims, but it's unjustified.
U
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Sorry to beat a dead horse here. But lets just say that my doctor prescribed me Trazadone and Wellbutrin for PTSD (2 tours in Afganistan). I did fill the prescription. However I never used them, and I have all of the pills accounted for. Would I be cleared to get my health certificate so I can enroll in to flight school?
I also noticed someone mention in an earlier post, something along the lines of "its up to the pilot to disclosure if he was prescribed any medications and for which specific dignosis"
But what if I withheld that information from the examining doctor and passed my bloodtest? Can the FAA find out or am I "good to go"?
I also noticed someone mention in an earlier post, something along the lines of "its up to the pilot to disclosure if he was prescribed any medications and for which specific dignosis"
But what if I withheld that information from the examining doctor and passed my bloodtest? Can the FAA find out or am I "good to go"?
If you have a diagnosis on record of PTSD it may not be so simple, if you don't get a response from Dr Bruce, send him him a PM. It's not the medications that cause the concerns, it's the underlying condition.
U
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Oh man thats terrible news. My therapist said that he would write a letter stating that I am ok to operate a plane, I'm just not able to go in to combat again. I will wait for Dr. Bruce to respond. Hopefully he has some good news. Thanks for the reply.
AggieMike88
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gprellwitz
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And I recommend that you do. Additionally, thank you for your service, and I sure hope it doesn't pose a significant obstacle to your pilot certificate!
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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That qualifies as a "bad idea". The FAA might not find out tomorrow, but when the do...
Your options are to sign up with an AME that can lead you through the hoops or pursue options that do not require the third class medical.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Actually it is BOTH the med which affects judgement, and the underlying condition, which affects the executive function, that are grounding.
No, a theapist letter won't do the job as your diagnosis codes are visible to any government agency.
I would NEVER apply for a medical certificate, unless you think you are healthy enough to go through a neurocog battery ($2,500+, uninsurable)
and a Forensic Psychiatry eval (Think $1,500)and come out clean, disabusing you of the underlying diagnosis.
I wish I had something to offer you, but I don't. If you lie, and omit the information, The FIRST TIME you have an ATC conflict or bend some metal, all you PILOT (not just medical) certificates will get revoked,as the investigator will pull those codes in ten minutes flat..
AggieMike88
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Bruce if the OP submitted to these tests and the result was not favorable, is he grounded forever, or can he continue to work toward a positive outcome in the future?
Though that was the answer you'd give, Sport Pilot it is for our returning vet.
bbchien
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No point, unless he can refute the diagnosis of PTSD needing medication. And it sounds like even PTSD-no meds will be a problem for him.
Henning is correct, LSA is the only outlet for this man.
U
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Wow, this is really bad news!! I was hoping to become a pilot as a fresh new start. I was planning on starting out 2013 doing something I wouldn't mind doing for the rest of my life. I can't believe I would have to pay the $4000 for a medical certificate, only for a maybe. I emailed www.leftseat.com and they said that they could help me get cleared. But now after hearing this I don't know how possible that is going to be. Unfortunately my eyes have witnessed ungodly things. That is why I have PTSD, and it is only in combat situations, meaning I don't have the heart to take any more lives in battle. The last thing I would ever do is crash a plane or hurt others. My PTSD has nothing to do with flying it has everything to do with combat. Sadly the FAA just sees my diagnosis and not my story. I guess I am just a liability in their eyes. It's sad that in this country your dedicate your life to give, give give, and they take, take, take... Well Happy New year to everyone. Thanks again Dr. Bruce. I appreciate the honest advice.
U
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You're welcome. Thank you for the support. Happy New year.
U
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That is the problem that takes $4000 to get past.
I wouldn't mind spending the $4000 it if was a definte pass. But what worries me is gambling $4000 on a MAYBE. That's a pretty big risk because if I go to a doctor who doesn't really want to put his credibility on the line.. I'm done!
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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bbchien
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Anyone who tells you "it's a sure thing" and "we can help you" ahead of time, is full of BS....