POTUS TFR violated

Did those F-16s go in weapons hot?

I mean seriously, couldn't they just intercept these guys with something that burns less fuel? And those missiles were designed to be used on communists, not GA pilots who forgot to check the NOTAMs.
 
Because....Nellis is home to F16s and it's an opportunity for the pilots to go fly. I don't know if they still do the Red Flag games anymore, but back in the 60s-80s, that's
where it happened.
 
Eh... Non story. When the President was in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend, there were three busts that I know about, one by someone who I think may have been trying to get through unnoticed by flying low! I think he was apprehended by a pair of F-15s. One of the others (a C152) was stopped by a Coast Guard Dolphin helicopter. Another 152 was intercepted by both the F15s and the Dolphin.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=ccd85b7f-f6cb-4ae8-98da-579737c9b1be

Of course, this was over more than the 19 hours that the Las Vegas TFR was in place. Maybe they're more inclined to gamble in Lost Wages. :)
 
gprellwitz said:
Eh... Non story. When the President was in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend, there were three busts that I know about, one by someone who I think may have been trying to get through unnoticed by flying low! I think he was apprehended by a pair of F-15s. One of the others (a C152) was stopped by a Coast Guard Dolphin helicopter. Another 152 was intercepted by both the F15s and the Dolphin.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=ccd85b7f-f6cb-4ae8-98da-579737c9b1be

Of course, this was over more than the 19 hours that the Las Vegas TFR was in place. Maybe they're more inclined to gamble in Lost Wages. :)
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I guess he didn't fly low enough. 20', 50 knots, they might think he's a car ;) But really, doesn't he realize that an AWACS and other military aircraft have RADAR?
 
I wonder how long until these sorts of scofflaw violators are intercepted by UAVs?

They are lots cheaper, and will save our rickety old Air Force F-15 and -16 airframes for what few flights they have left in them.
 
And remind me why POTUS was in Vegas... Oh yes, for a FUNDRAISER !!!!
That is a very good reason to restrict everybody's travel arrangements. It probably would have been cheaper to give Harry Reid the money and for Obama to stay at home.
 
mikea said:
http://www.gazette.com/articles/obama-101367-fly-zone.html
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"NORAD scrambles jets to patrol Obama's no-fly zone in Las Vegas"

But it's not even close to being a "no-fly" zone. The big iron with enough mass and fuel to take out even the biggest building in the city continue to fly in and out all day long.

It's just the little stuff with the capability to break windows that is excluded.

Have we forgotten January 5, 2002????

[/rant]


​
 
gprellwitz said:
Eh... Non story. When the President was in Chicago over Memorial Day weekend, there were three busts that I know about, one by someone who I think may have been trying to get through unnoticed by flying low! I think he was apprehended by a pair of F-15s. One of the others (a C152) was stopped by a Coast Guard Dolphin helicopter. Another 152 was intercepted by both the F15s and the Dolphin.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=ccd85b7f-f6cb-4ae8-98da-579737c9b1be

Of course, this was over more than the 19 hours that the Las Vegas TFR was in place. Maybe they're more inclined to gamble in Lost Wages. :)
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Impressed the 15's could go slow enough to intercept a 152...actually, I'll bet the helo driver was challenged to keep the speed down that low.:cornut:
 
JeffDG said:
Impressed the 15's could go slow enough to intercept a 152...actually, I'll bet the helo driver was challenged to keep the speed down that low.:cornut:
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Actually, a friend of mine looked up to see a military jet in slow flight with the nose way up. He wondered what was going on, then thought to look ahead of it, where he saw a little spec that was the plane being escorted.
 
Well I can say the evening before this Nevada TFR violation that the Tonopah airport was really very busy. Lots of planes on the ramp and I saw three in the pattern. The next morning in LV it was nice and quiet until I was awoken by screaming F16's overhead.
 
murphey said:
Because....Nellis is home to F16s and it's an opportunity for the pilots to go fly. I don't know if they still do the Red Flag games anymore, but back in the 60s-80s, that's
where it happened.
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Having been scrambled on my fair share of GA aircraft, let me tell you that it is WAY less fun for the guys in the jets than the guys in the GA aircraft. We DO NOT like doing those missions. Trying to get close enough to a GA aircraft to read the tail number and get other amplifying data they ask us for is no fun in a heavyweight airplane. Add that to juggling formation flying, clearing for additional traffic, keeping the TOI from running into you or the ground, talking to 1 million people on 2 radios, oh yeah... and FLYING. It's no fun. We know that it is likely someone out for fun that didn't check the NOTAMs. That doesn't keep us from having to go "catch" whoever it is. :rolleyes2:

Red Flag is still going on - when we find money to do it. But, it's become more pain than fun. Still decent training though.
 
We DO NOT like doing those missions.
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That settles it!

We hate em, you hate em, the TFRs have minimal if any practical use.

Only feasible solution is to cancel all TFRs, the way I see it!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
That settles it!

We hate em, you hate em, the TFRs have minimal if any practical use.

Only feasible solution is to cancel all TFRs, the way I see it!
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~~~~~~~~~~
"Yeah!" : growl, grumble, nod, hands on hips

But, somehow I don't think the Powers That Be will listen
 
So if one of us wants to willingly violate a TFR, we should be gear down, full flaps, and stalll warning light flickering (or intermittent horn). I will keep that in mind. Oh yeah and duct tape N084MA on as a tail number. (I know, not a valid tail number)
 
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EdFred said:
So if one of us wants to willingly violate a TFR, we should be gear down, full flaps, and stalll warning light flickering (or intermittent horn). I will keep that in mind. Oh yeah and duct tape N084MA on as a tail number. (I know, not a valid tail number)
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Please pick another number or be sure to be flying a Beech. That's a bit close to mine.

Use a Quebec, Oscar, or Z and 1s and 0s.
 
EdFred said:
So if one of us wants to willingly violate a TFR, we should be gear down, full flaps, and stalll warning light flickering (or intermittent horn). I will keep that in mind. Oh yeah and duct tape N084MA on as a tail number. (I know, not a valid tail number)
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mikea said:
Please pick another number or be sure to be flying a Beech. That's a bit close to mine.

Use a Quebec, Oscar, or Z and 1s and 0s.
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N999NN??? :D:D
 
EdFred said:
So if one of us wants to willingly violate a TFR, we should be gear down, full flaps
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It will only 'work' if we do it in a group of about 100, in a safe and orderly fashion.
Oh, wait - that would be civil disobedience, in an attempt to draw attention to a government excess...skip that plan.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Oh, wait - that would be civil disobedience, in an attempt to draw attention to a government excess...skip that plan.
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Why?

The 1st Amendment states that is our right. Specifically we have a right of peaceable assembly and a right to petition our government for a redress of grievances. If the government is not listening to our reasonable concerns and requests through our direct contact and through our lobbying firms then a flying protest would be the next reasonable step. To do nothing is to accept these TFRs.
 
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ScottM said:
Why?

The 1st Amendment states that is our right. Specifically we have a right of peacable assembly and a right to petition our government for a redress fo grievances. If the government is not listening to our reasonable concerns and requests through our direct contact and through our lobbying firms then a flying protest would be the next reasonable step. To do nothing is to accept these TFRs.
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Now, THAT is an interesting argument against the TFRs. I wonder if that would "fly" as an argument in court.
 
Here is the only way it would work.
We would need:

-Media person to present our complaint to the public, explain what the issue is. Perform press briefing during the event. Come up with slogans ('Mr. President, Give Us Back Our Freedoms!' or 'Skies', if you will).
-Flight logisitics person to arrange staging airports, ingress and egress routes, fuel, comm etc.
-Safety person to oversee and brief pilots all aspects of the flight*
-Attorney to cover legal issues that may arise, or decide the best way to minimize such problems in advance.

The flight would be well-advertised, not a secret. It's a media event, not a surprise attack. It would be conducted in a manner that does not pose a risk to any flight......especially airline flights. ATC, TSA, & Airforce would all be advised in advance of when, and what our route/altitudes would be.
The flight would trim a small edge of the TFR, not penetrate deep into class B/C, or fly over either the CB/CA airport, or associated USAF airport, or the actual location of the VIP.

*One screwup (nmac or worse, even an off-field landing) would be disasterous to our cause.

We'll call ourselves the TeaPartyPilots or something.

You are either in, or you are against freedom.
 
ScottM said:
Well you had me until that. I think a name that evokes images of something other than a group of idiots who can't spell would be a better choice.
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Um, have you seen some of the posts on this forum?
 
This guy got a medal...


south-lawn-1911.jpg
 
ScottM said:
Why?

The 1st Amendment states that is our right. Specifically we have a right of peaceable assembly and a right to petition our government for a redress of grievances. If the government is not listening to our reasonable concerns and requests through our direct contact and through our lobbying firms then a flying protest would be the next reasonable step. To do nothing is to accept these TFRs.
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If you truly believe that argument, I assume you would also say that the 1st Amendment would/should protect people who enter a federal facility (a military installation, for example) to peacefully assemble and protest.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Here is the only way it would work.
We would need:

-Media person to present our complaint to the public, explain what the issue is. Perform press briefing during the event. Come up with slogans ('Mr. President, Give Us Back Our Freedoms!' or 'Skies', if you will).
-Flight logisitics person to arrange staging airports, ingress and egress routes, fuel, comm etc.
-Safety person to oversee and brief pilots all aspects of the flight*
-Attorney to cover legal issues that may arise, or decide the best way to minimize such problems in advance.

The flight would be well-advertised, not a secret. It's a media event, not a surprise attack. It would be conducted in a manner that does not pose a risk to any flight......especially airline flights. ATC, TSA, & Airforce would all be advised in advance of when, and what our route/altitudes would be.
The flight would trim a small edge of the TFR, not penetrate deep into class B/C, or fly over either the CB/CA airport, or associated USAF airport, or the actual location of the VIP.

*One screwup (nmac or worse, even an off-field landing) would be disasterous to our cause.

We'll call ourselves the TeaPartyPilots or something.

You are either in, or you are against freedom.
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The prosecutor won't have to make such an either/or decision--he can charge you with violating US US Code Section 46307 and conspiracy to violate the same.
 
The prosecutor won't have to make such an either/or decision--he can charge you with violating US US Code Section 46307 and conspiracy to violate the same.
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They let Shay off during the Shay Rebellion of 1787 , and he was "guilty" of far worse in his attempt to rein in an out-of-control government!

Scott, stay 'in'. We can call ourselves whatever we want.
 
EvilEagle said:
Having been scrambled on my fair share of GA aircraft, let me tell you that it is WAY less fun for the guys in the jets than the guys in the GA aircraft. We DO NOT like doing those missions. Trying to get close enough to a GA aircraft to read the tail number and get other amplifying data they ask us for is no fun in a heavyweight airplane. Add that to juggling formation flying, clearing for additional traffic, keeping the TOI from running into you or the ground, talking to 1 million people on 2 radios, oh yeah... and FLYING. It's no fun. We know that it is likely someone out for fun that didn't check the NOTAMs. That doesn't keep us from having to go "catch" whoever it is. :rolleyes2:

Red Flag is still going on - when we find money to do it. But, it's become more pain than fun. Still decent training though.
Click to expand...

The day it becomes too much for you just let me know. I'll happily do all that stuff if I get to do it in a fire-breathing military fighter jet.
 
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kkoran said:
The prosecutor won't have to make such an either/or decision--he can charge you with violating US US Code Section 46307 and conspiracy to violate the same.
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The legal concern is why we have the attorney aboard.

If you want we can stay outside the tfr, just circle it single-file, 100 planes each a mile apart on a 30nm dia tfr. I suggest doing it at the time the VIP is scheduled to depart so that he is inconvenienced for a short while, gets a taste of what this is doing to the ordinary ga traveler.
 
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